Immigrants vs. Thugs (Philly Confidential)

Immigrants vs. Thugs

For those of you who want to keep the Mexicans-- and other immigrants-- away from this country's boarders, it may be time to think twice.
Still, don't worry our conservative friends. This post won't champion equality and diversity, rather Philly Confidential will just rehash a good ole' crime story.

The Associated Press ran a report in late June linking a large immigrant population to safety. The writer painted the picture that big East Coast cities, like Philadelphia, are in the midst of a violence epidemic while lacking sizable immigrant neighborhoods. On the flip side, metropolises like New York and LA are enjoying the many cultures of their foreign-born neighbors along with less crime.

PHILADELPHIA - Baltimore, Philadelphia and other cities in a bloodstained corridor along the East Coast are seeing a surge in killings, and one of the most provocative explanations offered by criminal-justice experts is this: not enough new immigrants.
The theory holds that waves of hardworking, ambitious immigrants reinvigorate desperately poor black and Hispanic neighborhoods and help keep crime down.
It is a theory that runs counter to the widely held notion that immigrants are a source of crime and disorder.

We know what some of you are thinking: "Immigrants take away jobs from Americans," "Immigrants take away need social services from the American poor," etc.

PC interviewed former Police Commissioner John Timoney a few months ago when she did a story debating why NYC crime is so low while Philly violence is so high. Timoney told PC that he believed immigrants serve as a catalyst for the revitalization of disheveled neighborhoods--the first steps of combating crime. His thoughts were cut from the final version of the story, but PC was very intrigued by his viewpoints.

How can immigrants—especially those who are poor and struggle with the language barrier—keep away the thugs in places like NYC and LA?
PC thinks folks are glazing over the wealth and the resources of these cities which can support newcomers unlike poorer places like Philly or Newark, NJ.
One this is for sure, being an old man from another country sure didn't help Kwok Wai-Ho during his recent walk home in Oxford Circle.

Posted on July 20, 2007 12:23 AM | Permalink

Comments (351)

Nick:

Typo alert. I believe that "boarders" should be "borders" in the 1st paragraph.

Posted by Nick | July 23, 2007 8:54 PM

Posted on July 23, 2007 20:54

Robbie:

I now live in San Diego, which is jam-packed with immigrants. I'm scared to go outside, and I live in a nice neighborhood. Gangs such as MS-13 certainly aren't populated by white Americans...try Latino immigrants. I can tell you from experience that having a high immigrant (esp. illegal immigrant) population does NOT create safety. What is does create is a fracturing of community.

Posted by Robbie | July 24, 2007 11:43 AM

Posted on July 24, 2007 11:43

Anonymous:

Thats stupid,More illegal immigrants having tons of kids bringing more drugs in, hogging up all the free welfare healthcare they want and when theyre confronted wave the mexican flag and call you racist,Who the fuck would ever fight for this fucked up country.!!>

Posted by Anonymous | July 29, 2007 11:38 PM

Posted on July 29, 2007 23:38

Anthony :

I am against granting illegal immigrant legal status just because they are here, but who do you think is going to do the work they are doing once they leave? Fast food, building houses, picking vegetable and fruits and cleaning hotels are going to be done by let me see, poor African-American and Whites? Not going to happen!

Posted by Anthony | July 30, 2007 7:15 AM

Posted on July 30, 2007 07:15

Anthony :

Posted by Anthony | July 30, 2007 7:15 AM

Posted on July 30, 2007 07:15

Anthony :

Posted by Anthony | July 30, 2007 7:15 AM

Posted on July 30, 2007 07:15

Gtown_teach:

Actually, we're talking about different kinds of immigrants. My father was an immigrant, and he knows tons of them in Philly. Plus, you can see many of the same patterns in most ethnic circles. Used to be that immigrants would come to this country and work in the city for 10-20 years and then move to the burbs (like the rest of us). Now, many educated immigrants go straight to all their ethnic communities in the suburbs, rather than the city.

On the other hand, many ILLEGAL immigrants are now living in the city and willing to work the harder jobs. But, again... they're illegal. They are using our welfare services illegally. Problem is, yes, they make money and do services, but in the end, they're not contributing their fair share to the tax and SS pool. We have alot of people ready to retire, so they'll be draining the pool soon, and then we have all the people at the bottom, draining the pool. Let's not forget the giant war we're waging. I'm sure we wouldn't be as worried about illegal immigration if we weren't feeling the wartime penny pinch.

But, back to Kowk Wai-Ho. His killer should get death. I know in his native country, his killer would probably get that. I really dont' know why this country is so lenient on crime. Let's face it. We're a country dependent on cash. It costs us tons of cash to house inmates. Many of whom will never see the light of day. I know the argument that it doesn't really curb crime or anything. I think we need a fundamental shift from spending tons of tax payers dollars on the lost, to things that are positive. Like education, and universal healthcare. If we spend tons of money on the bottom, then that's what we're going to get. The bottom. We have to stop catering to the lowest common denominator.

Posted by Gtown_teach | July 31, 2007 11:40 AM

Posted on July 31, 2007 11:40

Roger Fulton:

Hold On..from my experience, Mexican immigrants are not necessarily the cause of increased crime rates. I am a Philadelphia native - SW 58th and Kingsessing to be exact, Wharton grad,(68) now living and working in Yuma, Arizona. I am up to my arm pits in Mexicans, both legit and not so. I am a grade school teacher to classes that areusually 80 to 90 % Mexican/American. They are adorable, lovely kids who show more respect to me than most American anglo kids and I love that. Parents come over hardly speaking English or usually don't. Average lettuce picker gets $10 an hour. Kids go to our schools, on the American side. Didn't know that, did you??
Kids learn English fast, they want to blend in and do it fast. Parents - for them it's hard, language mostly difficult. It takes a while.
Illegal immigrant crime is a real problem for them because it gives them a bad name and they help police the problem. Most illegals pass right on through and go to inner cities like Detroit and Philly. My old house on Redfield street probably has Mexicans living in it.

Posted by Roger Fulton | August 3, 2007 8:44 AM

Posted on August 3, 2007 08:44

BW:

What nonsense. The debate is over ILLEGAL
immigrants, as mentioned in another post.
Illegal, like the suspect in the triple slaying in Newark. The one who was just released on bail instead of held. The social fabric and rule of law are totally gone in cities like Philly, where I was born and raised. Forget Iraq, this country could be headed for a civil war to stop the flood of illegals. It's astounding to me that someone as ignorant of the facts as you seem to be is actually paid to be a writer. Where did you go to school? You are as ignorant as Philly's do- nothing loser of a mayor.
God help us all. Your rantings make you sound like a demagogue. You are as ignorant as the streets that you write about!

Posted by BW | August 11, 2007 9:46 AM

Posted on August 11, 2007 09:46

BW:

Alos,
Liberals are all for diversity, unless it's diversity of opinions and you have the guts to disagree with their knee-jerk-kool aid-drinking
mentality. Intellectual dishonesty is your hallmark.
Your column's initials say it all-
PC. Some of reasons that Philly is out of control is the ignorance of parents, who let their would-be thug children raise themselves
on the streets. The lack of Fathers to act as role models, ilegitimate babies, social pathologies, [parents and peers telling kids that
if they read and study too much that they are "actin' white." The glorification thru rap music and videos of thug culture, the worship of materialism, disrespect for human life, disrespect of women, [ho's and bitches],glorification of violence, and disrespect of everything that Western Civilization stands for. It's "Lord of the Flies," in Philly.
Liberals always have an excuse for failing,
and more government is always the answer. Because the truth hurts, and you can't handle the truth. Conservatives stand for personal responsibilty,
which is what used to be paramount in years past. Check out our Mayor to see the opposite! The problems of cities like Philly can't be solved by the government alone, because the breakdown in the family and culture of disrespect are the problems. The saddest part is that
soon areas like Northeast Philly will soon be as ghetto as North Philly, SW Philly, etc.
Lawncrest went from working class decency to
Wild West ghetto, which will soon happen to the rest of NE Philly. A real shame.

Posted by BW | August 11, 2007 10:19 AM

Posted on August 11, 2007 10:19

Gtown_teach:

Wow.. that's alot of rhetoric. I don't think I've ever seen so much rhetoric in one post. A big problem we're not addressing is that the public is no longer strong enough to enforce it's own policies. Average citizens rely too much on the police, lawyers, social workers, and any other government enforcement group to deal with everyday issues. I think that if rule of law was more important than profits, then half this crap wouldn't be going on. We have an attitude in the city and in this country that's hurting us more than we think.

"Ain't my mess... I'm not going to bother with it."

Posted by Gtown_teach | August 11, 2007 1:42 PM

Posted on August 11, 2007 13:42

BW:

"I think that if rule of law was more important than profits, then half this crap wouldn't be going on". What do you mean? It's the fault of
corporations? What nonsense. This is the typical rhetoric embraced by the far left. Say, didn't one of the teachers at G-Town get assulted by a kid? Are you going to blame that on capitalism too? How sad and foolish. Like I said, Philly is becoming "Lord of the Flies." How many times have you heard studetns telling other students that they are "actin' white' for studying too much? [Be honest, not PC] It is a pathology all too common in the 'hood. I grew up in North Philly. When I was a kid, if a teacher told your parents that you did something wrong, your parent
backed up the teacher, and they read you the riot act when you got home. Nowadays, many times the parent is so dysfunctional that they will take the kid's side most of the time, and perhaps
argue with the teacher, or threaten them.
It has nothing to do with corporatiions, [although if our school system was privatized it would probably be a big improvement. Liberals love monopolies, no competition]. Why is it that Catholic schools can do a better job for less cost? [Hmm, could the lack of overpaid managers, and foolish theories on teaching basics have something to do with it? How about no union? Hmmm....
BTW, just calling something rhetoric is typical
left-wing speak, reminds me of the old Soviet state. Why don't you offer a point by point rebuttal of my arguement? That would be more the adult way. Like I said, Philly is sinking fast, Street and the rest of the Dems have no cajones, and that is the only thing that thugs respect. Would the last taxpayer leaving
NE Philly please turn out the light?
Thanks

Posted by BW | August 11, 2007 6:30 PM

Posted on August 11, 2007 18:30

Gtown_teach:

Again... an unorganized rampage of rhetoric. Please don't make unwarranted, galactic assumptions of my argument.

I'm talking about something that the right talks about all the time. Personal responsibility. It really seems that personal responsibility for oneself, and the community has gone out the window. And, it's not about giant corporations. It's small businesses. They hire the majority of illegal immigrants because... well, we know why. The average U.S. citizen doesn't want to stop hiring the contractor that uses illegals because they're cheap and easy. Nobody wants to clamp down on this, and it's the same with other issues. Like community activism/defense. We have town watch, but all they're supposed to do is call the cops if they see anything. Why weren't the guardian angels allowed to do citizens arrest? By all means, let them! At least they have the balls to stand up and fight for the law-abiding citizen. Maybe if we had groups of citizens in our city that weren't afraid to take back the patch of street in front of their own house, and reign in their kids we wouldn't have the complete mess we're in right now. It's easy to just say "Ain't my mess... I'm not going to bother with it."

Posted by Gtown_teach | August 11, 2007 9:16 PM

Posted on August 11, 2007 21:16

BW:

"Again... an unorganized rampage of rhetoric. Please don't make unwarranted, galactic assumptions of my argument."

Well, not really. As I said, if you can address each
points that I made, specifically, than I would respect that. It's really pointless to dismiss what I've said. But let me re-cap;
My 1st post was to point out the PC coulmn's writer used the term "immagrant' when she really meant illegal immagrant. That's sophistry and dishonest.
Now you've said two totally different things about corporate greed. In your last post you said that big business benefits from illegal immigrant labor, that is of course true, [hey, I agree with you!] In another post, you blamed the breakdown in the rule of law on corporate greed, [I'm paraphrasing], that's what I called you on, it's total B.S., [I really don't get your point there at all]. So again, if you'd like to discuss opposing veiws, POINT BY POINT, great, if not, this is a waste of time. And, yes, I totally agree with you, that the lack of personal responsibility is a big problem in cities like Philly. BTW, I started out in life as a liberal,,
so I know that side of the political spectrum very well. You know what they say, "anyone who isn't a socialist when they're young has no heart.
Anyone who isn't a conservative when they're older has no brain ;-)
As I said, my friend, if you want to discuss actual points, fine, otherwise it's just pounding the desk.

Posted by BW | August 11, 2007 11:37 PM

Posted on August 11, 2007 23:37

BW:

"and reign in their kids we wouldn't have the complete mess we're in right now. "
I agree. BTW, you probably meant rein, not reign. BTW, what subject do you teach?
Not English, I hope ;-)
[Hey maybe the kids are royalty]

Posted by BW | August 11, 2007 11:47 PM

Posted on August 11, 2007 23:47

Gtown_teach:

Don't correct my spelling, when your's is just as bad.

"than I would respect that."
Should be "then."

Please don't use two commas. That's just poor punctuation.

You also forgot to close your quotes.
"anyone who isn't a socialist when they're young has no heart.

Ok, point by point.

1. Where did I ever mention large corporations? I'm talking about profits in general. Profit from small businesses, and individuals mostly.

2. It's not corporate greed that causes the breakdown of rule of law. It's the individuals in this country that create the culture where rule of law doesn't matter much. Similar to, it's not illegal if you don't get caught. Just like hiring illegal immigrants. If you don't get caught or prosecuted for it, then it's not illegal. So, instead, individual citizens should force the issue. This is the same mentality of taking responsibility for their community, block, or sidewalk.

But, on the other hand, many citizens and local governments are forcing the issue, but are getting no support from the federal government. That's where this problem gets gigantic. I think it's ironic that the federal government knows that if they pass an immigration law, they're going to open a huge can of worms. First, they probably won't be able to fund it (just like NCLB). Secondly, services charges to the average Joe would skyrocket across the country if they did manage to deport a large section of illegals. This is where the rule of law breaks down on a national level.

Posted by Gtown_teach | August 12, 2007 10:45 AM

Posted on August 12, 2007 10:45

Jeff:

Point One: Legal immigrants are fine. Illegal immigrants are not.

Point Two: Most people will respect what someone writes until they come across the first grammatical error. Then, they (rightly?) conclude the person is an idiot because they can't even spell, much less provide worthy insight on the area's problems.

Point Three: It's still O.K. to discriminate against stupid people.

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