As one diagnosed with panic disorder, I can state that mental health treatment can be helpful, but also damaging. Specifically, it can help one overcome the effects of a mental disorder that exists, but it can also create the effects of a mental disorder that did not previously exist. It can also manifest (cause to come to the surface) a mental disorder that may have existed previously but would have never manifested itself if it had been left alone.

The percentage of vets returning with PTSD is subjective. Maybe one in three, maybe two in three, or maybe one in fifty, depending on who you ask. Each individual should some say in their current mental condition. A perspective patient should be cautious with psychiatrists and psychologists because they tend to apply their solutions to problems that may or may not apply to their profession (as many of us do).

I am opposed to this legislation due to the word "mandatory". Change that to "optional" or "available" and I am in favor of it. Legislators should not establish law that require others to receive mental screening and/or treatment. However, if an OBJECTIVE poll of veterans say different, then my opinion is wrong.

I would hesitate to make it mandatory as well, except that there is still a lot of stigma associated for those who need mental health services. Certainly, there are good and bad therapists out there and any such program would need a good screening system to keep the bad ones from providing treatment and evaluation services to veterans.

The other week, I heard a report on the radio about a veteran in MN who committed suicide after months of suffering from PTSD. Despite making repeated threats to kill himself, when he sought help from the veterans hospital, all they could do was put him on the waiting list. He was number 10 on the list.

It's time we stop shortchanging our veterans for all the sacrifices they continue to make for our country.

Well done, Flavia. This is a worthwhile bill and it needs to be highlighted. I agree with Den, also, that mental health issues must be addressed immediately, not subject to 'waiting lists' and 'red tape.' The stigma needs to be eradicated because, sadly, the 'stoicism' demanded from our military men and women caused generations of pain and, perhaps, unnecessary tragedy.

My brother, unbeknownst to the rest of our family, suffered from demons which he couldn't control, and committed suicide at the age of 30. He was a civilian, one who'd never served in combat. There were no external traumas that could have caused his illness. This only highlights the importance of doing everything in our power to make sure that our returning soldiers (many of whom have seen and experienced horrors we 'civilians' could not even imagine) have the vital and necessary support to pick up the threads of their lives.

And I have nothing against 'mandatory' testing, either. Sometimes, the government has an obligation when it seeks to promote the health and welfare of our citizens to push them towards the light, so to speak.

Christine

I would hope that all personnel being separated from active duty are routinely given medical & psychiatric check ups...I do believe that is the norm. PTSD sometimes does not actively manifest iteself until later while the soldier is trying to assimilate back into private life. When he/she are left alone(without the routine of service)to deal with the actions & images they have carried home. While I do not believe there should be a bill introduced for manditory testing; I am in favor of offering information & treatment options to the soldier & their families. I have worked as a nurse treating PTSD, have suffered from it myself, and know that you should not use force on anyone in this condition. The affects of service in Iraq & Afghanistan have already been felt in our communities with soldiers coming back commiting suicide and engaging in behavior that is fueled by what they have been through. The community needs education on how to help their soldiers. The VA needs to offer help to the reservists who are returning as well as their regular soldiers. Hold the force......provide money for treatment and education. The stigma of a diagnosis of mentally ill kept many World War I, World War II, Korean War; and, most definitely, Viet Nam Vets from seeking treatment through the government agencies. The Nam vets, especially, turned to alcohol & drugs to attempt to control their symptoms. Symptoms including flashbacks, inability to sleep, inability to fully engage in civilian life, constantly being vigilant, paranoia, and guilt. Better to fund more treatment in the communities using people who have experience, than to go the government route. Maybe a 12 step program could be started that would engage returning personnel. Its a thought.

Good morning Christine. I am sorry about your brother.

If you felt that you were fine, OK with you if someone "pushes you towards the light"? Not OK with me.

I am with Mary on this one, soup to nuts.

One who is fine can be made not-so-fine with unneccessary screening and treatment. I speak from personal experience. Let the soldiers, with assistance from their families, decide whether or not they want to be proactive about PTSD treatment. Don't force them into it.

Unless current and former soldiers tell me different, I believe the bill should be modified with the word "mandatory" changed to "available" and then passed.

Be interesting to find out what Israel does to help their soldiers cope. IDF soldiers have seen a relatively high amount of combat in one form or another for decades.

How ya doing Dennis? Miss you on attytood. One of a few voices of reason amongst a bunch of knuckleheads from both sides of the fence.

Hello, Todd, I appreciate your comments. I do disagree, though. Some people need the impetus, the extra push towards assistance. There could always be a waiver in the law which would exempt those who, for religious or other reasons, wouldn't comply. But the libertarian idea that no one should be forced to do what they don't want to do doesn't translate well into an area where some people are not in a position to accurately determine if they in fact need help.

I speak from personal experience.

In any event, thank you for your thoughts on my brother. It is because of his struggle, and in his memory that I'm not ready to give up the fight.

Blessings on all

Christine

I wonder if Flavia has any readers who are experts on PTSD who could chime in on the warning signs and how long after separation they generally manifest. Soon of the issues raised here might be dealt with the details of the program. Would it be a once and done session just as they step off the plane or will there be follow-up six months to a year or so down road? I think the idea of having all soldiers coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan go through at least an initial screening with follow-up for those that need it is a good idea.

I don't know how common the idea that Todd raises of psychologists causing problems in healthy people is. I do know from my own experience that a bad therapist won't do anything to solve an existing problem.

Todd, I'm enjoying my break from posting on attytood. I'm still lurking over there from time to time, though I'm starting to wonder why I ever bothered trying to discuss things with some of the regulars over there.

Wow,

it is impressive to read how strongly you all feel about this issue.

i have served in OIF (Operation Iraqi Freedom) and OEF (Operation Enduring Freedom ((Afghanistan))) and while i wouldn't consider myself an expert, i certainly have been exposed to what may be construed as PTSD impetus.

it is difficult to paint everyone with the same brush and as a Military member I can say that making the screening mandatory will cause some serious issues.

Conversely, if the Servicemember who is suffering these types of symptoms doesn't feel like she/he is in a position to reach out for help, through a faith group or Medical professional, the consequences can be horrible.

One of the things that could help this situation is removing some of the stigma from the whole idea. You see, if a Servicmember is compelled to believe that they will be "labeled" or "tagged" as a concern because they have sought out help for stress related issues, not many will seek it.

Maybe an outside group could be in a better position to enable this type of help. Churches and Faith groups are a good starting point, but perhaps we could do more.

I remember once speaking to a WWII Vet and him cussing Elenore Roosevelt for coming up with a similar idea. He laughingly spoke of the "camp" he was in immediately after his return from War in the Pacific.
He was certain that his being sent there, labeled as a "nutjob" (apparently Troops who had been in major battles were selected) made him more susceptable to having issues than if he'd just been able to go home and be with his family.

These issues are relative to the individual, lets not forget.

Thanks for caring so much.

It feels good to read that people do.

On behalf of all of us, I would like to thank you, evolo, for what you have done for us.

God Bless You

Thank you for you service and your insight, evolvo.

I wonder if the WW II vet would have been better off being offered help and screening at home instead being sent to a "camp". That might have been helpful both in determining if he had PTSD (I believe they simply called it "shell shock" back then) and help him integrated back into his home life.

Anyway, I think this is an important issue for discussion. Too many times, we've sent our soldiers off to fight for us without any support once they got home. Maybe not everyone needs the same level of help or any help at all, but it should be available whenever they need it and not as a wait list.

I am against almost anything mandatory that the government feels is in "my" best interest. Make it available, but let me choose. I can trust this government, but what happens if we get a real nut job for a president....like a democrat

Yeah, like it's possible for us to find a president worse than the one we have now.

This thread, which started out as an intelligent discussion about the needs of our military men and women, is in danger of becoming another political slugfest. Whatever our political beliefs, we should all agree that our soldiers, and their families, need complete support. Their sacrifice and service, quite apart from how you feel about their mission, is primary.

The political snarkniness should be saved for other topics.

Christine

Den, I think you certainly have something there.

Christine you also make a good point.

The push into counseling may actually, in my opinion, cause people to shut down and not speak.
If, given the circumstances, one could have a period of time (like leave) where counselors or religious leaders were made available to speak in a confidential manner, perhaps people would be more compelled to talk about troubles they may be having.

I sure don't want to bore you with my life story, but it is one chock full of government sponsored, non-voluntary counseling from a very young age.

In my experience it was normally pretty bad. On occasion, through luck, I'd bump into a Social Worker who I felt good around. For the most part though, when you don't have a choice about treatment or at least a choice about WHO to spill your guts to, it is negative and may actually cause more issues.

Also Christine, thanks for the sanity check on the ready made political battle that can seep it's way into nearly any discussion.

once again, it speaks volumes that citizens give a crap, what with Anna Nicole and all....

thanks

Mandatory is good. I mean alot of soldiers probably wouldn't even know if they needed help.

There is no possible way of going through a war, especially this discombulated one and not get fucked up in some sort of way.

However, there has to be some sort of undisclosed privileges if in fact any one soldier was to be diagnosed with a disorder. We need this, so our soldiers don't have that "stigma" when they apply for jobs and begin to adjust to the "real" world once again.

I agree with evolo in re to social workers who dont give a care making things worse. But things happen as they are destined to happen...

I believe you make your own destiny, but back to the subject of supporting our troops, anyone care to comment on the recent reports of horrible conditions at VA hospitals?

I'm not so sure you do always make your own destiny. Saul became Paul because of divine intervention on the road to Damascus. Jonah kept running from his and was swallowed by a whale.

I haven't heard or read any reports of the conditions of the VA's. The military hospital I saw last year looked state of the art. The ones they show on TV where the men and women are rehabbing look great to me.

I'm a person of faith, but I fail to see what 'making your own destiny' has to do with ensuring that our service people have access to the necessary support systems and resources. Unlike some religions that rely on faith alone, Catholics believe that good works are the best way in which to express our love and concern for human beings. On this day of all days, Ash Wednesday, we need to remember the sacrifices of our military, and endeavour to repay their service with sacrifices of our own, be that through volunteer services to VA organizations, lobbying for financial support to VA hospitals, supporting bills like this one which would create much-needed benefits for returning soldiers, or providing financial and emotional support to the families of those on active duty.
Again, this is neither a political or religious issue. It is an obligation.

I am always amazed at the courage of our military, and their incredible ability to put the collective good before their own personal welfare. I have seen numerous immigrants (I am an immigration attorney, and have worked closely with them) who have chosen to enlist in the armed services as a way to give back to this country for benefits received.

To me, there is nothing that our military can ask that is not deserved, or warranted.

Blessings on them, and on all

Christine

Catholics are not the only ones who believe that faith without good works is dead faith. God makes that very clear in His words through James.

God Bless you too Christine. Have a blessed lent.

We're all shaped by the decisions we make, whether we arrive by them independently or in reaction to what happens to us. Saul could have ignored the vision he received on the road to Damascus as just the result of heatstroke, but he choose to follow what he believed was a sign from God. Likewise, Jonah could have chosen to follow God's initial instructions or, once he was swallowed by the whate, accepted death instead of changing his mind.

It's all about our decisions.

As for caring for our veterans, here's one article about the conditions in the military and VA hospitals:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070221/hl_afp/usmilitaryhealthiraq_070221001715

I don't care what party you belong to, if these reports are true, it's shameful. Veterans should receive the best care available, not the worst.

Ever try ignoring a vision that has blinded you with scales in your eyes? With reason the believe that seeing the vision through will remove the scales and restore your sight? Even I am not that stubborn.

Also suspect I am not tough enough to endure a painful death entailing being slowly digested for an unknown amount of time. Probably would take weeks. And the heat, humidity, and smell are no doubt worse than Perth Amboy in August at low tide.

Sorry Christine. I ultimately use these blogs to witness Jesus.

I didn't say the choices were easy, just that it's possible for people to choose their own path. Hitler could have stayed a struggling artist in Paris. Einstein could have chosen to stay a patent clerk. Bush could have chosen to stay just a failed businessman instead of a failed president. Even Jesus could have chosen to run from the Garden of Gethsename rather than accept being crucified. Their lives would have turned out very differently if they have made different choices. Just because a choice looks preordained or inevitable in hindsight, doesn't mean that other choices weren't possible.

I think Jonah would have suffocated in the whale's belly long before he'd been digested.

Then he would have suffocated within the three days that he was in there.

Christine, that was a wonderful thing that you wrote. Thank you for being a woman of faith and sensibly spoken.

I'm lost.

It's all my fault boss man.

Dennis and I disagree on the validity of the bible. Somehow we got into the Book of Jonah, the man who ended up in the belly of a whale for 3 days. Things like that tend to happen when I stick my two cents in.

Christina is probably annoyed with me too. Please resume your discussion about the support of our soliers. I promise to try harder not to interfere.

The level of discourse on this blog is so superior to that on the other newspaper-sponsored sites that even short and somewhat 'unique' diversions of thought are done eloquently, and with grace.

And it's clear that despite differing views on faith, politics and predestination, there is genuine sensitivity to the human condition here.

That's something everyone should be proud of.

Christine

(and I'm not annoyed with you Todd...)

Thanks Christine. You made me feel good.

YBiC,
Todd