I am falling in love with Flavia more and more everyday. Everytime I don't like when something is going on, she posts it here for discussion.

When is George Bush going to look America in the eye and admit that in the last eight years this was an administration of convenience.

It is convenient for executive privledge, it is convenient to commut Libby, it is convenient to go to war.

If the military made a mistake admit it. Tillman fought for the citizens and values he believed this country stood for. Give him the dignity and his family the dignity of the truth.

Tillman was a pretty good safety too. A couple of his hits went to the highlight reels.

It was definitely not convenient to president Bush for this country to go to war. Quite the contrary. Executive priviledge and Libby. Well, maybe so.

It would have been far more convenient for the president to avoid invading Iraq. That decision made his job much more difficult and I am sure that he knew it.

My condolences to the Tillman family.A true American "HERO" He was!However,this tragedy given all its publicity for politicians to vent their anger at the govt. disgusts me !There are thousands of hero's in military.When we unfairly put an emphasis on a particular fallen soldier it diminishes the equal value of all are troops.We as a country,need answers about all the brave American hero's.Not just the Tillman family!In closing,I ask that the media would show the love and concern for all the families of our fallen soldiers.

Todd,

I am impressed, I don't for sure if you are Bush supporter or not, but, at least you are objective enough to see that Libby and Bush's affection towards executive priviledge defintely serves is own purpose.

Pat,

Great reply.

Well Boss, I don't want to take undue credit. I do not know for sure what is in the president's heart. It seems that the two decisions had some personal appeal for him, just like going after sodom who had once tried to have his father killed. But I just don't know for sure.

One thing I am certain of is that he knew his job was going to get alot harder when he decided to invade Iraq.

Pat H’s post on the attention given to Pat Tillman reminded me of the many forwarded post making the internet/email rounds earlier this year asking why people were focusing on the VT massacre of 31 people instead of the much broader destruction of life that is the war in Iraq. Why are some deaths given more attention than others?

I think that it is a good question.

I'll admit to the Citizen Hunter community that I often used to scratch my head when a death of one person would make the news while hundreds and thousands died of cancer (leukemia took my beautiful 11 year old cousin), drunk drivers (my grandfather was killed by one at age 50), and murders and drug overdoses (I won't go into that here) where treated as an everyday occurrence so mundane that it was not worth mention.

Is it selfish for one family to grieve and to search for the truth?
Of course not. It is human.

Is it a MSM conspiracy to show this grief? No, it is a business.

Did the families of 911 or the VT massacre, or now more currently, Pat Tillman's family, receive a bigger piece of the American "grief treasury" than the "less famous" families of American service-members?

I don't think so.

I don't think grief and respect, how we show it collectively, and how we feel it personally, can be measured by how much air time it gets. My ma's grief would be deeper than any 5 minute news segment.

But I wanted to wait for the VT episode to fade and the first "Pat Tillman is getting too much attention" post before I commented. I didn't have to wait too long did I? No one really talks about VT anymore, and like all news stories – Pat Tillman’s time in the news cycle will come to an end.

But the war is still going on and people are still dying. Look at tonight’s news. After the Pentagon’s latest statement on the Pat Tillman death, whose pictures are shown "In Memoriam" on all major broadcasts day in and day out?

Before we get ourselves worked up for the next national tragedy or the next reported cover-up, what are we doing about the daily drip-drip-drip of this war? What will we do to make sure that our daily "In Memoriam" ends – that there are no more Pat Tillmans - no more cover-ups?

I think those are the real questions.

Pat Tillman in your words"national tragedy". How can the untimely death of any soldier be labeled a national tragedy ? VT I'll accept that as a tragedy. All of this searching for a cover up, undermining the integrity of our military,is dividing our country. In war time, these actions bring us down. Truth, justice, and the American way. Freedom is what were fighting for,period. Lets bring to justice the actions of our leaders,no matter what consequences it has on our way of living as a hole. There is no room for political correctness, in time of war. If the media is trying to sell stories, start following Paris Hilton around some more !

Pat, I know during war it is hard to do or say anything that may have a negative effect on morale. If you have read evolo's post on the matter, he really hits it home. In today's press it is hard to find good news.

But I think we are missing the essence of what America stands for if we let misconduct and incompetence go uncorrected.

It is important for our citizens to trust their government. The bureaucrats in Washington who thought it best to fudge the facts hurt that trust. What lesson would it be to our kids if we did not try to correct their mistakes?

If we are to be leaders to the world we must practice what we preach. We can't let some dishonest bureaucrats who forgot what "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" is all about bring us down. We as citizens must, from time to time, remind them. And we are doing that.

The press by no means is perfect. But every now and then they get it right and I beleive this is one of those times.

jdnla, I do not disagree with you. But without knowing another person's heart, we have to assume much to make reach our conclusions.

The words that you use, "fudge the facts" and "dishonest bureaucrats who forgot" can only be assumptions. And that hardly makes the accusations true. It doesn't make them false either. But it doesn't make them true.

Thanks Todd. That is true. I beleive in intellectual honesty when forming and sharing my opinion so here goes.

I was reading ESPN the other day and noticed this reporting along with the actual letter written by the Army to the Lt Gen.

By comparison I think I showed some restraint

____________________________

WASHINGTON -- Army Secretary Peter Geren is expected to recommend that a retired three-star general be demoted for his role in providing misleading information about the death of Army Ranger and former Arizona Cardinals star Pat Tillman, military officials say, in what would be a stinging and rare rebuke.

"I'm not satisfied with any of it.
-- Mary Tillman, on the impending punishments of high-ranking Army officers

Lt. Gen. Philip Kensinger, who headed Army special operations, is one of seven high-ranking Army officers expected to get official reprimands for making critical errors in reporting the circumstances of Tillman's friendly-fire shooting in Afghanistan in April 2004.

The officials requested anonymity because the punishments under consideration by Geren have not been made public. The Army said that no final decisions have been made, and that once they are and the Tillman family and Congress have been notified, there will be an announcement sometime next week.

Geren also is considering issuing a letter of censure to Kensinger, who is receiving the harshest punishment of those involved in what has become a three-year controversy that triggered more than half a dozen investigations. Five other officers, including three generals, are expected to be issued less severe letters criticizing their actions.

Army officials opted not to impose harsher punishments, which could have included additional demotions, dishonorable discharges or even jail time. One senior officer, Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, commander of the Joint Special Operations Command, escaped punishment.

Tillman's death received worldwide attention because he had walked away from a huge contract with the National Football League's Arizona Cardinals to enlist in the Army after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Tillman's mother, Mary, said the impending punishments were inadequate.

"I'm not satisfied with any of it," she said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.

She rejected the Pentagon's characterization of the officers' offenses as "errors" in reporting Tillman's death, when several officers have said they had made conscious decisions not to tell Tillman's family that friendly fire was suspected.

Geren's pending decisions come four months after two investigative reports found that Army officers provided misleading and inaccurate information about Tillman's death. A central issue in the case has been why the Army waited about five weeks after it suspected the former NFL star's death was caused by friendly fire before telling his family.

The probes found that nine officers, including four generals, were at fault in providing the bad information and should be held accountable. But the reports determined that there was no criminal wrongdoing in the actual shooting, and that there was no deliberate cover-up.

Geren then tapped Gen. William Wallace to review the probes and recommend disciplinary actions. Wallace disagreed with initial findings against McChrystal, according to the military officials.

But Wallace also surprised Army officials by singling out a 10th officer for rebuke -- one who had not been blamed in the earlier reports.

Brig. Gen. Gina Farrisee, who is director of military personnel management at the Pentagon, is expected to receive a letter of punishment for her involvement in the oversight of the awarding of Tillman's Silver Star.

Two others who were blamed in earlier reports are also expected to receive letters of admonishment: Brig. Gen. Gary Jones, who led one of the early Army investigations into the matter, and now-Brig. Gen. James C. Nixon, who was Tillman's regimental commander.

Jones, now retired from the Army, was faulted for failing to address several issues in his probe, leading to speculation that Army officials were concealing information about Tillman's death.

Nixon was criticized for failing to ensure that Tillman's family was told.

The names of the three lower level officers expected to be punished have not been released by the military, but they are likely among the five who were blamed -- but also not named -- in the earlier investigations.

According to an AP analysis of the reports and other documents, those five officers include then-Capt. Richard Scott, who conducted the first investigation into the shooting, and then-Lt. Col. Jeff Bailey, the battalion commander who oversaw Tillman's platoon and played a role in the recommendation for his Silver Star. Officials would not say if either of those are among the ones recommended for rebuke.

It is no surprise that Kensinger, 60, is targeted for the most severe punishment. An investigation by the Defense Department's inspector general found "compelling evidence that Kensinger learned of suspected fratricide well before the memorial service and provided misleading testimony" on that issue. That misrepresentation, the report said, could constitute a "false official statement," a violation of the Military Code of Justice.

Farrisee's rebuke is tied to the Army recommendations that Tillman receive the Silver Star. The investigations found that Army officials were aware that Tillman was likely killed by friendly fire even as they were moving ahead with the medal that was awarded for heroism in the face of the enemy.

If Geren does recommend to Defense Secretary Robert Gates that Kensinger lose a star and be demoted to major general, that would lower Kensinger's retirement benefits. As an example, a lieutenant general retiring in 2006 would earn about $9,400 per month, while a major general would get about $8,500 per month.

The letters of rebuke for the others could also be crippling blows. They can include letters of concern, reprimand or censure, with escalating degrees of gravity.

"For officers generally, a reprimand is a devastating career injury," said Eugene Fidell, a lawyer who specializes in military cases and teaches at American University's Washington College of Law. "It can trigger an effort to throw the person out of the military, it can trigger a reduction in pay grade when the time comes to retire, it can prevent a future promotion, and it can gum up a promotion that has already been decided."

For a one-star general, Fidell said, it could mean they are likely to never get a second star. And, he said, a lower level officer, such as a captain, "would have to dig out of a deep hole to continue his or her career. Letters of reprimand are truly bad news."

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

By The Associated Press
The Associated Press
Tuesday, July 31, 2007; 4:28 PM

-- Text of the letter from Army Secretary Pete Geren censuring Lt. Gen. Philip Kensinger for his role in the investigation of the friendly fire death of Army Ranger Pat Tillman.

___

MEMORANDUM FOR Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger, USA Retired

SUBJECT: Censure

You are hereby censured for your conduct and failure of leadership in matters relating to the investigation and reporting of the death of Cpl. Pat Tillman. As the commanding general of the United States Army Special Operations Command, you were the senior military officer in the administrative chain of command for the 75th Ranger Regiment, the unit to which Cpl. Tillman was assigned at the time of his death.

You and soldiers under your command failed to follow Army and Department of Defense policy and regulations in the investigation and conduct of the administrative duties required in a case of fratricide. Your failings compounded the grief suffered by the Tillman family, resulted in the dissemination of erroneous information and caused lasting damage to the reputation and credibility of the U.S. Army. You are accountable and responsible for the failures of your command.

When tasked by the acting Secretary of the Army, Secretary Brownlee, to investigate this matter, you failed in your duty to the Office of the Secretary and to the U.S. Army. You subverted the trust vested in you by the Secretary of the Army. To quote Gen. Wallace, "When you chose to lie about what you knew in order to avoid personal responsibility for your actions, you crossed a line that demands serious rebuke." Your Army leadership relied on the purported accuracy and completeness of the investigation to the detriment of the institutional credibility of the U.S. Army.

Few matters rise to the importance of your handling of next-of-kin notification for our fallen soldiers. You failed in your duty to the Tillman family in the conduct of their notification and failed the Army in your decision to deceive your Army's leadership regarding your role in the mishandled affair.

Pete Geren

This reminds me of a story where an ship captain was trying to move an enormous freighter out of an undersized slip. The captain had to maintain utmost focus and had just about navigated the freighter out to sea without colliding with any of the smaller boats in the slip when a little boy approached him and informed him that the boat would have to return to port because he forgot his hat.

jdnla, your investigating the Tillman case, there's some sort of cover-up. This matter, in my opinion, should be handled through the ranks of our military. Why? These leaders are not politicians, they protect us through all sorts of intelligence,seccret missions that we should not be privy too. We as a country, know all to well, once you start digging, you never know where it will take us. Politicians laundry, is fair game . We must trust our military, to do whats best for this country . We must not make this the circus, our enemies would feed off of. We already have lost confidence in our elected officials. The integrity of the military, is all we can hope and pray for .

I know what you are saying Pat. Reminds me of this quote:

In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies.
-W. CHURCHILL

But if we are to be an example, lying to our own people does not promote our ideals and does more to hurt our larger goal of world stability.

Good morning j.

How much information do you believe we are entitled too?

At one point, it was reported that this soldier died in battle. Now it seems certain that he was shot by American soldiers. How does knowing this do anything good for the soldier's parents and all the rest of us? Why did we need to know this? Why do we have the right to know this? And how does this do any good for anyone other then people who want to see our US military efforts fail?

Certainly the US military needs to know this. And since the media insisted on publishing a cause of death, the US military had to give a statement. But why are they required to tell the media that this soldier was killed by friendly fire or worse yet, possibly by a freaked-out comrade?

Counter-intuitive to popular opinion, I do not believe that we always have a right to know. Misplaced information can do alot of damage.

Todd. Well put and we must agree to disagree. I think that many people die in accidents and friendly fire incidents and the family is told.

Lying is just bad policy.