OK, folks, it's the last debate...it's Chris Matthews...let's see what happens.
Welcome to the open thread for the Channel 10 debate tonight at 7 p.m. (Note that our partner WHYY is one of the sponsors.)
Now, I am going to be on and off the computer, so I am COUNTING on you folks to keep track of the zingers -- and the actual informative discussion, if any.
Comments (68)
OMG Tom Knox just went craaaazy!
Posted by Hal Barkley | May 7, 2007 7:23 PM
crazy? how about his local 98 goons outside at the rally. that's freaking crazy.
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 7:57 PM
Fattah was extremely aggressive tonight and he sounded deperate. HIs was 100% focused on attacking Nutter regardless of the question. Did I hear him say "I'm glad Michael knows he's black"? That is really unprofessional and a disgrace. He spent a lot of time attacking Nutter's crime plan but he has no crime plan.
Posted by sj | May 7, 2007 8:06 PM
That was the lowest I've ever seen Fattah go. Shameful.
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 8:14 PM
I just find it so ironic that Fattah is so anto Stop and Frisk when its mentioned in his position paper on crime. I cannot believe Nutter didnt fire back with that tidbit.
Posted by sj | May 7, 2007 8:16 PM
Fattah was looking very desperate up there, he really couldnt take the heat of Matthews challenging him on some answers or asking to him to shut up. He was like a spoiled kid up there who didnt like being told to follow the rules. I think Evans/Nutter did a good job of shutting down his airport lease pipe dream. He had little to back up his claims that it can be done easily or quickly. He is basically saying "trust me, I'll make it happen even though there is no precedent". Now it seems like his new pitch is "elect me because I like black people way more than Nutter". His entire campaign has been weak and predicated on one proposal and now he is going completely negative after saying he would never have any criticism of his competitors.
Posted by sj | May 7, 2007 8:20 PM
i agree with sj; fattah crossed the line with that comment. pretty lame.
nutter, for his part, remained about as composed when someone calls you a self-hating black. i think he wisely realizes that, even though fattah clearly will do anything to become mayor, even slander his opponents, nutter doesn't want to burn those bridges because, if he becomes mayor, he's going to have to ask fattah for money in washington.
that said, evans was the clear victor in the debate. chris matthews actually gave him a chance to speak his mind about issues, and his critiques of nutter's stop-and-frisk plan and fattah's lease proposal were worthwhile. nutter spent most of the time defending dumb scenarios by the bully chris matthews.
uh, and let's just forget that embarassing spat between brady and knox ever happened. they looked like a political cartoon satirizing tensions between big business and the political machine.
on the whole, i was mightily disappointed with this debate. it was rude and vulgar of the crowd to shower candidates with applause--seemed suspiciously pro-brady. there was way too much time devoted to crime and not enough about the economy, education, and transportation.
so evans really impressed me tonight. but for me, it's still...
nutter '08
Posted by jordon | May 7, 2007 8:21 PM
Wow, Fattah was shameless, shilling his stupid "I paid people to give me their extra guns so I could brag about it on TV" plan when CM asked a legitimate question about a possible real situation. Idiot. Matthews actually helped show that Nutter is the only one with a real crime plan and that it has nothing to do with racial profiling.
Thank you, Dwight, for finally saying what everyone knows, that Fattah's airport plan is "half-baked" and bless you, Chris Matthews, for showing up Bob Brady's only qualification as mayor is that "I know everyone."
I used to just think we needed Fattah not to be Mayor. Now I think we need to get him out of Congress, too. "We're all done with that tax cutting thing now." Way to get the people on your side, idiot.
Posted by phillyc | May 7, 2007 8:22 PM
phillyc, your last point is interesting. i am a recent transplant to philadelphia, and therefore didn't know much about brady and fattah before the mayoral race (other than the fact that brady voted against net neutrality for his buddies at comcast, which instantly placed him on my shit list). i wonder if all this exposure will be bad for them. probably not, since it's so hard for an incumbent representative to be voted out. i certainly won't be voting for brady next time he's up for reelection.
Posted by jordon | May 7, 2007 8:28 PM
The whole gun buyback thing is a joke and if Fattah really thinks that is a crime fighting plan he is moron. Those programs are strictly for photo ops and do nothing to stop gun violence. No real criminal is going to take his gun to Fresh Grocer. Crime is the #1 issue for Fattah's base and yet he has no crime plans. That is a huge miscalculation and I hope he pays next week. his answer to every question is "lease the airport" or "unlike CM Nutter, I care about poor people and will not allow racial profiling".
Brady and Knox came off like two kids when they argued up there. Evans did get most of his points in and he really didnt get attacked by Matthews or the other candidates.
Posted by sj | May 7, 2007 8:28 PM
Yeah, what was that "we're all done with that tax cutting thing"? What is it about jobs that Fattah doesn't get? It's like he thinks jobs are just going to magically appear. Philly is the highest taxed big city in the U.S. In what universe does that create jobs? I'd like to know where all these people Fattah thinks he's going to bring out of poverty (by leasing the airport, I guess) are going to work.
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 8:29 PM
Fattah already explained in the previous debates that poor people dont need jobs, they need his program. He thinks economic development is overrated and would much rather help people by leasing the airport. More jobs are good for everyone, even the poor and working class people Fattah thinks he's representing. You have to be stupid to not see the connection between more jobs and less poverty.
Posted by sj | May 7, 2007 8:33 PM
wow fattah looked bad, i mean never seen him look so desperate
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 8:37 PM
I think Fattah underestimates how desperate people (black and hispanic people especially) are to reclaim their neighborhoods from gun-toting thugs. With him spending so much time in DC, it's almost like he just doesn't understand the depth of the problem. In the long term, yes, we need to help people out of poverty, but the pressing need today is to go after the illegal guns.
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 8:44 PM
Great job on the analysis, everyone...
Posted by Wendy | May 7, 2007 8:46 PM
I am also a new Philadelphian, I also didn't know anything about Brady or Fattah before this election. I met Fattah through my work and was not overly impressed, and everything I have seen of him since has been moving my regard steadily downhill.
I wonder if this race won't backfire on our Congressmen, to my eyes it sure looks like we could use some new blood in DC if this is the best we've got going. Maybe they should have stayed out of the limelight.
Posted by phillyc | May 7, 2007 8:48 PM
Fattah would like citizens who are afraid to come out of their homes to sit tight and wait until he leases the airport and then all will be well. He is out of touch with the situation in the streets and is misreading what people want. This is not the time to come off as soft on crime, plus is is kind of hard to accuse a BLACK candidate of being insensitive to racial profiling issues. His charges would stick a little more if he were talking about Knox or Brady. We need short term solutions to slow the murder rate while we work on improving the city's education level and economy. It sounds like Fattah doesnt plan on doing things differently than Street and JOhnson.
Oh, I was so glad that Evans pointed out that Brady would not support bringing back Timoney because the FOP hates him. Brady totally flip flopped and said he WOULD in fact bring back a guy like Timoney when in the last debate he said he did not believe in bringing in outsiders.
Posted by sj | May 7, 2007 8:49 PM
Hey! I didn't get my usual press release saying that Michael Nutter had won this debate! Was it handed out at the event?
Posted by Wendy | May 7, 2007 8:51 PM
In the end, I think Evans helped himself the most tonight. The question is, though, who will he take votes away from...Fattah? Nutter? I don't see Brady or Knox supporters being persuaded by things like qualification, intelligence and integrity.
Still voting for Nutter...
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 8:52 PM
Sounds like I missed a good one. Is it on the internet anywhere?
Posted by Dave![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://blogs.phillynews.com/dailynews/nextmayor/nav-commenters.gif)
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May 7, 2007 8:52 PM
Probably, Nutter's campaign was so stunned by Fattah's complete unravelling they are taking longer than usual to get their thoughts collected. I can't blame them. Fattah was unexcusable. And to think this week at YPP there is a debate on racial sensativity. God help us.
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 8:54 PM
This debate proves once again that Evans should be much higher in the polls. His command of the issues and costs is FAR beyond Knox, Brady and Fattah. Brady at one point promised 1000 cops, 1000 parole officers and 1000 truant officers. Come on man, lets be serious.
I see no reason why any black voter who insists on voting for a black candidate would chose Fattah over the other two. He hasnt a clue.
Posted by sj | May 7, 2007 8:55 PM
Wasnt Fattah the one accusing Nutter of making race an issue right before he questioned Nuuter's blackness? Just checking. The guy who runs ads with R&D beats and a black voiceover and talks about helping "our kids", etc. is now saying that Nutter is pandering by reciting TRUE statistics about how many blacks were killed last year. Also, I cant believe he had the nerve to try and pretend blacks are not disproportionately affected by this. Anyone who watches the news knows who is being shot and who is shooting (meaning race) most of the time. HE was insulting black voters by saying "this isnt really a black problem, everyone is being shot". Not true.
Posted by sj | May 7, 2007 9:00 PM
Brady's plan is for 1,000 cops, parole and probation and truant officers TOTAL. Much more reasonable (and less costly) than other candidates such as Knox that have proposed 1,000 cops only.
Posted by Hal Barkley | May 7, 2007 9:01 PM
I missed the first part of the debate, but from what I saw, Nutter & Evans were the clear victors, and Brady & Fattah looked like idiots. I can't see Knox being affected by this debate, or any of the debates for that matter.
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 9:01 PM
Knox is no Bloomberg. When I first heard there was a successful businessman running for mayor I thought, great, that will be a refreshing perspective given the other candidates' long history in government. Well, I was wrong. Knox oozes sleeziness and literally has nothing worthwhile to say. I expect to see a guy like that owning a pawnshop in AC, not in the mayor's office of the 6th largest city in the country.
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 9:07 PM
Fattah is a worthless individual. His blaten disregard for the truth and verbal attacks on Nutter make him a serious problem and an even greater threat to not only our city if he becomes mayor, but our nation when he does't. Uneducated and plain old unpolished, he amazes me every time he opens his mouth. People like this do not deserve to speak on the behalf of others. Throw him out of Congress when you get the chance!!!
Posted by Fattah is Worthless | May 7, 2007 9:15 PM
The only idiots are the phoneys pretending to be anonymous on this site.
No matter how hard you try - you will not stop Brady from earning the seat in Room 215. And to our fellow union brothers at 98 -we told you time and time again, that it is a huge mistake to follow Local 98's leadership (sic) with knox -they are trying to walk us right into the Delaware River -NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
It is BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
BRADY FOR MAYOR!
Posted by Electricians for Brady | May 7, 2007 9:18 PM
I am again amazed at Mike Nutter's ability to remain focused and calm when Rep. Fattah is going insane about him. I think he has really embraced the principle that, when an opponent is shooting himself, don't get in the way. But even that piece of common sense has to be tested when you have a US Congressman lying about your campaign pledges and calling you out on your racial integrity. That was really hard to watch, and I don't think Mr. Fattah helped himself.
Messrs. Brady and Knox were hilarious. It was like watching my 8 year old twins in the backseat on a long car ride.
Dwight Evans is a class act. Nutter is the better candidate (and not by a small margin, IMHO), but Mr. Evans is smart and really cares.
Mr. Nutter's refusal to dumb-down his rhetoric speaks volumes about the respect he has for Philadelphians. He believes that we all "get it", and that he does not have to talk down to us. I really hope he wins, but even if he doesn't, he has almost singlehandedly raised the level of public debate in this City, and that alone is worthy of high praise.
Posted by Jlalaw | May 7, 2007 9:21 PM
Not only is he uneducated and simple minded at best. He has no clue what he is doing. He is a union whore and does not even deserve to be in public office any where in the world. He not only will lose woefully next tuesday but will probably lose his seat in the house soon after. It amazes me and almost every other forward thinking person in the city how unqualified he is to lead the city. Compare him to blumberg in new york or daly in chicago and he doesn't even enter into the real of possibility. Thank goodness we won't have to listen to his babbling much longer.
Posted by Brady is Done. | May 7, 2007 9:23 PM
I used to think Fattah, Evans and Nutter were the only quality candidates in the race. After tonight, I'm left with Evans and Nutter. I can't believe how low Fattah sunk tonight. Incredible.
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 9:27 PM
Fattah is far behind in the polls and will do whatever it takes to catch up. He is a bigot who has no business even taking a tour of City Hall. He would ruin our city. I'll put it this way. If you want 4 more years of John Street, vote for Fattah. Anyone see "Shame of the City?" That sums it up.
Posted by Fattah's Last Resort | May 7, 2007 9:30 PM
Fattah was bad but Tom Knox aka Tony Sopranos was worst with his bad temper and not having a script. He's got that I got the biggest bankroll you cann't question me about Jannie Blackwell or his pay to play (500,000.00) contributions.
Tom Knox (1990-present)
+ 156,500.00 to Ed Rendell
= Deputy Mayor Knox in 1992.
After Knox's stint as deputy mayor ended in 1993, Gov. Bob Casey named him a 220,000.00 a year deputy insurance commissioner to rehabilitate the Fidelity Mutual Life Insurance Company. So now he thinks he can buy your vote = City Hall.
Posted by Struggle For Truth | May 7, 2007 9:33 PM
"Nutter Emerged the Leader from Testy Debate"
I think that's probably right. Knox, Brady and Fattah definitely hurt themselves tonight. Evans probably won the night, but Nutter still emerges as the leader.
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 9:36 PM
Figures!!
Posted by Wendy | May 7, 2007 9:37 PM
It is clear that the ploy by Tom Know to marry Jannie Blackwell 3 weeks before the election is extremely hypocritical. This is exactly how "pay to play" begins because we all know that Jannie Blackwell is an old timer who was and still continues to be a n extension of John Street's greasy hand. The whole thing is a plow to get African American votes. Don't fall for it! We are all smarter than that!!!
Posted by Know/Blackwell | May 7, 2007 9:37 PM
I like that.
Knox/Blackwell...we're smarter than that!
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 9:40 PM
Fattah...this year's Shame of the City.
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 9:46 PM
Anyone found the debate online? I can't.
Posted by Wendy | May 7, 2007 9:50 PM
Fattah's plan to lease the airport is absolutely non-sensical. The FAA is in the drivers seat on this one and even if it was a feasible idea, they would wait and see how it works out at Midway in Chicago for a minimum of 5 years, and that Lease is still 2-3 years away from happening. Numerous other apsects of the "lease" of PHL wouls have to fall in to place as well such as approval of the majority of carriers at the airport, tinicum township in delco and many others we don't even know wbnout. Plus Fattah is GREATLY exagerating the revenue stream for this even if it did happen in the future. So were is he going to get revenue from in the mena time for all of his "great" idease. This kind of thing is way over his head.
Posted by Fattah's Airport? | May 7, 2007 9:50 PM
I still can't believe Fattah said that...
Posted by Fattah's Brain | May 7, 2007 10:02 PM
GO Fatwah! Rip knox and Nutter and do not stop!
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 10:08 PM
Nutter and Evans laid out the truth about the airport lease and then Fattah says "everything they just said about the airport is untrue". What was he talking about? The stuff they said has been clearly stated by the media and is not false. He based his campaign on a pipe dream and didnt even bother to research the matter beforehand. This campaign has exposed how unpolished and unqualified to serve Fattah really is and it may cost him in the long run. He should've stayed in congress where we couldnt witness his lack of polish so easily. The same guys who has refused to criticize street and didnt think Nutter should do so either, has now decided to try and rip apart his fellow black candidate.
Knox's explanation of his alliance with Blackwell was a joke.
BTW, Brady may have MEANT 1000 total police, truant and probation officers but at one point he said 1000 of each. He never answered how he would pay for it. He nor the others (nutter excluded) seem to be able to directly answer a question.
Posted by sj | May 7, 2007 10:13 PM
Tom Knox money, money, money, we will not let you rip-off poor Philadelphia again.
Posted by Struggle For Truth | May 7, 2007 10:42 PM
Fattah is an absolute joke. His entire campaign now seems to only be focused on attacking Nutter.
What scares me is I still think Fattah has a very good shot at winning the election.
Posted by Rick | May 7, 2007 10:51 PM
sj, you continue to make good points, but i disagree with you that nutter was the only one who answered questions directly. one of the more interesting insights from the debate was when dwight evans said that the thought that the mayor of philadelphia was going to magically wrest power from the state over the public schools was preposterous and "wrong," because the state takeover has been a success.
i think "electricians for brady" must have been one of the obnoxious boobs whooping it up at the debate tonight. i can't figure out if his post is ironic or not.
and a word about the bully chris matthews: wasn't that constitution center lighting unflattering on his albino skin? the man looked positively ghastly. that said, i was surprised; he seems to have been keeping up with philly politics from his perch in washington, probably via his buddy michael smerconish.
nutter '08
Posted by jordon | May 7, 2007 10:52 PM
Fattah = CLUELESS!
Posted by Anonymous | May 7, 2007 11:05 PM
I just love that Knox thinks cronyism is limited to giving friends and relatives no-show jobs. If it's a job that requires work, then apparently nepotism is OK (Jannie), and so is giving a job to a friend that is legally barred from the position.
As for Evans, he didn't truly answer why he'd be more effective at helping the city as mayor than he would be staying put. And I still can't get by the pay raise issue, and I'm surprised it hasn't come up. Dwight is doing better, but he still doesn't connect with me. I agree that he's the only other choice, but for me he's a distant second to Nutter.
Posted by Tim | May 7, 2007 11:18 PM
Why was Fattah attacking Nutter's stop-question-frisk policy anyway? He supports the same policy, according to his position papers available on his website. In fact, Fattah cites the same study about Kansas City's stop-question-frisk program that Nutter cites in his position paper.
Posted by SK | May 7, 2007 11:59 PM
I like Dwight Evans--just do not think he can win. Knox must be stopped--the Blackwell thing is the tip of the iceberg. Fattah really sounds like he went off the deep end. Brady or Nutter? Can Nutter pull it off without the field troops and combat Knox's selling out to Blackwell and, apparently, Doc? Sounds like Brady for me.
Posted by Voice of the People | May 8, 2007 12:03 AM
6abc doesn't have the debate on their website, but they now have a little summary video with the highlights... apparently Brady also got a threatening call on his cell phone before the debate started.
Posted by Dave![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://blogs.phillynews.com/dailynews/nextmayor/nav-commenters.gif)
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May 8, 2007 12:10 AM
I'm so happy that finally these insider politicians are being exposed as just cheap hustlers they have just been stealing for years then they rig the game so that there friends and family get into office. They have a lot to lose so I hope they won't get away with stealing the election from Michael Nutter. Fattah you never done anything for the 28th Ward I be glad to see you lose and I hope you move out of the city!!!!!!!!
Posted by rocnell | May 8, 2007 2:44 AM
not normally a defender of tom knox, but anyone think it was lame that they brought up his campaign contributions? although he sounded petulant, he made a point: if you support someone you give money to their campaign. i do it. you do it. everybody should do it.
by the way, speaking of corruption and pay-to-play, anyone catch brady on "radio times" last week? wedged in between the fist-pounding mantra of "safe streets," he actually said he admired disgraced congressman tom delay, because he was doing what he did "for his poorty." nice.
nutter '08
Posted by jordon | May 8, 2007 7:15 AM
I do agree that Knox was 100% correct in saying he did not engage in pay to play by merely giving to candidates he liked. That is not pay to play and Brady really didnt have a leg to stand on there but he played to his union supporters in the audience. Brady is a politician who has accepted many donations over the years so I dont get why he is suggesting Knox did something unsavory by donating to democratic candidates.
Posted by sj | May 8, 2007 8:06 AM
jordan,
NUtter wasnt the only one to answer questions, that wasnt quite accurate. I should've said he is the only one that seems to directly answer EVERY question. Evans answers most times, but he tends to go off topic or provide an answer to a question that wasnt even asked. He is still better than the other 3 when it comes to responding to the question at hand. Brady and Knox have NO specifics about anything. Fattah's answer is "I'll get the money from the airport".
Posted by Anonymous | May 8, 2007 8:12 AM
Dave: Is that the 6abc debate or the Channel 10? I am looking for the channel 10.
Posted by Wendy | May 8, 2007 9:07 AM
It was a fun one last night, that's for sure! I was on the floor laughing at the Brady/Knox purse fight!! You know its sad when you can predict the coming of the candidates' stump lines and chastize them for messing their own lines up!! Nutter was indeed calm, cool, and collected despite Matthews trying to rattle his cage (Brady got hit early and he lost it then!!). Evans also did a good job and I'm still supporting him to the end! 17,000 petition signatures and an entire state legislative district is a powerful base to start with.
Posted by TedP | May 8, 2007 9:53 AM
6abc (Chris Matthews)... hadn't realize there was a channel 10 debate.
Posted by Dave![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://blogs.phillynews.com/dailynews/nextmayor/nav-commenters.gif)
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May 8, 2007 10:37 AM
It will be interesting to see whether the voters of Philadelphia, black and white, will see Fattah's trash talk as compatible with the kind of city they want Philadelphia to be...
Posted by hg | May 8, 2007 10:57 AM
Oh, so it was NBC 10. That would explain why I wasn't finding the full video on 6abc.com. NBC 10 doesn't seem to have it either, though.
Posted by Dave![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://blogs.phillynews.com/dailynews/nextmayor/nav-commenters.gif)
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May 8, 2007 11:36 AM
SK-
Where's the link to the portion of the Fattah website that cites stop and frisk. I'd love to read it- what a hypocrite
Posted by Fred | May 8, 2007 11:59 AM
From Fattah's website, under gun policy:
Designate Patrol Officers to Go After Illegal Guns. With our existing police force, we will designate specially trained patrol officers in each Police District to go after illegal guns and the criminals who are most likely to use them. This targeted enforcement has been proven to be effective in other cities. A 1992-93 study conducted by the University of Pennsylvania's Lawrence Sherman showed that targeted patrols in an area of Kansas City, Missouri with a murder rate six times higher than the city as a whole showed a 49% drop in gun crimes and a 65% increase in gun seizures. A 1997 study in Indianapolis showed that targeted patrols in one high crime district reduced gun crimes by 29%.
Link: http://www.phillyforfattah.com/policy_center_detail.asp?service-id=102796675
Posted by phillyc | May 8, 2007 12:53 PM
The targeted patrols cited by Fattah as what he would want to institute included exactly the SQ&F tactics for which he is now challenging Nutter's blackness. Incredible!
Posted by Anonymous | May 8, 2007 2:26 PM
Yo !! Rocnell excellent observation on how these cheap political hoods have rigged the game of politics for years.
Truly speaking Rocnell it isn't for Nutter to win not because he isn't a sweet guy or nice guy's finish last. Voters today don't make their decisions because of or on endorsements , connections or a reference.
Rocnell voters pretty much decide on strength and will and objects of matter and craft.
Jasper
Posted by Jasper Zeigler Jr | May 8, 2007 2:33 PM
Live long and prosper
Posted by SAMUEL | November 21, 2007 10:08 AM
Counting sheep
Posted by ISAIAH | November 21, 2007 2:22 PM
VOTE 4 OBEAMA
Posted by skye carfagno | October 8, 2008 9:14 AM
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