Deep Sixer

Please Marc. Eventually you are going to have to criticize people on this team. I know they are probably great guys who work really hard, but a lot of them are terrible basketball players. The way this team has been covered ever since Iverson was traded has bordered on Spadaro-like.

If I wanted fluff pieces I would go to the Wacovia Center and pick up a copy of Drive Magazine.

I'll help get you started:

Willie Green is shooting 38% from the field. Willie Green has the same amount of assists as turnovers. Willie Green has 25 free throw attempts in 14 games. (7 of which were tonight. Yay Willie!) Willie Green has 8 steals in 14 games.

Willie Green is playing 30 minutes per game.

PLEASE: Ask Mo Cheeks why. And if he says it's because he tries really hard in practice, explain to him that that does not make any sense, as he's been "trying really hard in practice" for about 5 years now, and he hasn't gotten better in any tangible way.

Question: Who would you rather have play defense on opposing point guards: Andre Miller or Mo Cheeks, not 1980's Mo Cheeks, but 2007 Mo Cheeks???

Actually, I think blogmaster Marc Narducci would play better perimeter defense than Miller and Willie Green. Scott Brooks, Greg Grant, Jeff Malone, BJ Tyler and Perry Moss all played better defense back in the day than Miller and Green do now.

I couldn't agree more with SC's comments. Every night I try to find something about this team that i can hold onto for next year and every night I wonder why Green is starting and why Carney is getting any minutes at all. If we can take one thing away from this year it should be an evaluation of whether or not Lou Williams has a position, and if Thaddeus Young is another Rodney Carney or potentially something more. Iguodala played a ton as a rookie and it clearly advanced his development. If we are going to lose, let's do it while getting our young players as many minutes as possible.

I guess that the hope is that given time the norm will be the effort we saw against the Bucks and last night's effort will be the exception. So the current starters will be given the chance to find some consistency. But if the record stays this pitiful for another month or so, there's no reason not to give the rookies some major minutes. Meanwhile, Lou has been the most exciting player, and is at a point where he might really catch fire if given the chance. If his current limited role continues he would be a fool not to demand a trade.

Lou does not have to demand a trade. He will be a RFA this summer, and will be paid well. I can't imagine we are more than a few weeks away from seeing play 25-30 min per game.

Right now, Lou and Iguodala are about the only reasons to watch this team. There are other players with potential, like Smith and Young, but their progress will likely be more incremental.

If somehow WG ends up going to another team as part of a trade I will no shed a tear. I wouldn't mind if he played 5-10 minutes, but it is hard to watch us take 30 minutes each night to rediscover that he hurts us on both ends of the court.

We need a Carlos Boozer. Jason Smith has the same tools. He has to develop a lost post game.

Ronnie Brewer was on the board when we drafted Rodney Carney. One is starting on a very good team. The other can't see the floor on a bad team.

Reggie Evans is a reserve on a good team...as he should be.

I agree with everyone else that green is an embarassment out there. This much is obvious, but i have a different bone to pick - Dalembert.

Why does he start? Most of the time he can score when the team creates for him, but thats a bare minimum qualifaction of the job, not a bonus point. He makes terrible decisions with the ball, and cant stay out of foul trouble. His largest asset is blocking shots. But just out of curiosity, i checked on the team stats this morning. Young Mr. Smith has 12 blocks, and sammy has 24...in close to twice an many minutes. and the kid has 3 more steals. So if you're getting comparable defense out of both players, why not start the one who can shoot the pull up jumper, the three, and is showing signs of developing an aggressive post game? He is clearly the more intelligent and co-ordinated player, and this is supposed to be the season to develop the young guys...lets start doing it. yes, i know sammy gets starters money and how(he's the sixer's pat burrell in this way), but i thought cheeks was going with the "hot hand"...

The young guys are clearly adding to their games, so they must be benefitting from the coaching, but i seriously question mo's distribution of minutes.

I'm with everybody else time to ship Willie Green out of town. Carney should be getting his minutes! Carney played less time and was more effective than Willie. Willie is a turnover machine and a gunner! Lou Will and Iggy play a lot better with Carney on the floor!

Ok...Normally, I'm not the "propose a wacky trade" guy and be told just why it won't fly and why we can't trade our trash for other teams' treasure.

But intermittently watching last night's game and again realizing that this team is going to need to develop perimeter defense and is TRYING to become more athletic...Ok...I am gong to become wacky trade guy:

To Utah - Korver, Carney and Green
From Utah - Milsap, Brewer, Giricek and Collins

The key to this deal is Milsap for Korver, but a Brewer for Carney swap would be wonderful. The rest is cap ballast, though I can imagine Green being semi-useful for the Jazz.

The Sixers get a young low post player and a good perimeter defender. They give up some talent and shooting with Korver who would be quite special playing off Williams and Boozer. It's a deal that could well vault Utah into the Finals as long as they avoid a major injury to a front courtplayer.

To follow that up we have:

To Atlanta: Miller and Armundson
From Atlanta: Childress, Lue and Wright

Cap space, Cap space, Cap space along with another young perimeter defender in Childress. Atlanta gets the veteran point guard it needs and begins to look like the class of its division.

Ultimately the Sixers are left with:

1: Lue, Williams, Ollie
2: Dre, Brewer
3: Childress, Young
4: Milsap, Smith, Evans, Randolph
5: Dalembert, Collins, Hill

Players like Giricek and Wright are in the last year of their contracts along with Booth and Ollie and Randolph. Maybe enough cap space to pry a big time player at the deadline?

Most importantly, the perimeter defense for this roster would improve and ultimately, that has to happen for this team to contend.

Along with a high #1 pick next year, this team should be in a position to compete.

Sorry to turn into wacky trade guy. Won't happen again.

It seems like common sense to me. If this is year #1 of rebuilding, why not rebuild by developing experience in your younger players? If you're certain that Thaddeus Young is your future, why not let him play more often and gather experience like Andre did in 2004-2005? I, for one, would be more interested in paying attention to games if he was a regular. As is, I'm watching just for LouWil and Jason Smith (Who has a nice future).

Was Carney a mistake? Can you at least start him so we can figure it out?

It's real easy to say the Sixers need to ship Willie Green out of town. The truth, is NOBODY in the league is touching that contract. Billy King dug his own grave on that one. You are crazy if you think Utah will trade their starting 2 guard, a good young rebounder and expiring contracts for Willie Green and Kyle Korver (and their ridiculous Billy King salaries).

I would like to see the Sixers hang onto Andre Miller until closer to the trade deadline and then deal him for either cap space or a young prospect. I like Lou coming off the bench for now, and that will give him the second half of the year to see if he can handle being a full time point guard.

Really wish the Sixers could have done a little better with that draft last year. A lot of decent point guard prospects taken after Carney (Rondo, Marcus Williams, Farmar...)

Carney was a mistake the day he was drafted - even the commentators questioned why the Sixers took him when he has the same skill set as Iguodala. What Billy King was thinking, I haven't the slightest idea. Renaldo Balkman, Rajon Rondo, Kyle Lowry and Mardy Collins were taken after him.

Willie Green is a street baller, much like Rafer Alston. Once Greene is let go by the Sixers, he'll become a journeyman, much like Alston. To that end, his trade value is low, very very low.

As for Dalembert - even Kwame Browne was a hot commodity, so getting rid of him shouldn't be difficult.

The truth is that the sixers have no real valuable players we could trade. Either contracts or just bad players. Even Igoudala is not tradeable, He thinks he should get star money. He's not worth that, and the rest of the teams know it. So where's this situation put our sixers ? H E L L , and its hot down there ! Inteligence is measured by your IQ. It is what it is. Your IQ is yours for life. So why do we expect Dalenbert, to improve his game? His Basketball IQ, is in the low 60's. Miller won't be easy to move, high salary, teams will be trying to steal him, because they, no he is of no value to us at all. I'm taking bets on this one. Will Mo, get another head coaching job ?

Neither Green nor Carney has the skills to start in this league... both would be, at best, sitting at the end of the bench on any decent team.

Dalembert... yeah, is there a more overpaid player in the league? Well, probably... but, come on! I mean, 11 million dollars per year to block a few shots and otherwise run around like a confused child? Great job there, BK.

The question is... who in their right mind would give us anything worthwhile for any of these guys? We're pretty much stuck with them unless we get lucky.

"It's real easy to say the Sixers need to ship Willie Green out of town. The truth, is NOBODY in the league is touching that contract. Billy King dug his own grave on that one. You are crazy if you think Utah will trade their starting 2 guard, a good young rebounder and expiring contracts for Willie Green and Kyle Korver (and their ridiculous Billy King salaries)."

Korver makes $4.5 million per year. Not actually ridiculous in the NBA for a starter/6th man type. That's actually under the midlevel exception of $5.3 million.

Korver has value in this league and for a true contender he has an increased value. He'd look wonderful on a team with a true low post presence like Utah or Houston. Him for Milsap + cap ballast is reasonable.

You are right about Willie Green not being sought after, but at slightly over $3 million per year even his contract isn't "horrible", though he's likely worth about 2/3rds of that value. I think you can deal him to someone looking for some scoring off the bench.

Carney is still young enough to be intriguing, though the longer he stays deep in the Sixers rotation the less intriguing he looks. I believe any deal the Sixers make has to have his "potential" as a selling point.

But it won't happen, and that's why I vow to never morph into wacky trade guy.

I agree with what you're saying, Doc. I just wonder about a few things:

1) Is BK actually looking to move Green? Why do I feel like the answer's probably "no". Is it because Green is still a starter on this sinking ship of a team?

2) If BK is shopping Green around, what are other GMs offering? Frankly, just getting him off the team is fine with me... I almost don't care what we get in return. However, for the sake of argument, assuming I did care what we got in return, why should I trust that BK's capable of getting equal value for him? I just feel like someone, somehow, will wind up taking advantage of him.

That's kinda what I mean when I say we'll need to get lucky. BK has to realize that Green doesn't have a place on this team and he then has to find someone to give us good value for him. Man, I just don't see it happening... though I sure hope I'm wrong.

Doc Him, you are right - Korver's salary isn't terrible - although I think the length of the deal might scare some teams off. Does a playoff team that trades for him really want to be paying him 5.5 mil in 2011? Willie Green's salary is just a disaster. He's an NBDL player / NBA 12th man on the books until 2011. If King can get anything for him, even a 2nd round draft pick, it will be a miracle.

I would like to see Billy King identify who the core components are of future Sixers teams and shop everyone else for draft picks or expiring contracts. If Korver doesn't fit in the long range plans, then get something for him (I think they should keep him). What's the harm in playing the young guys and getting some experience. Next year the Sixers will be one of the only teams with cap room, and with another high draft pick (BK, please don't take another 6'6 - 6'8 swingman - I think we have enough) they could be right back to the playoffs in the East in a year or two.