It was pointed out on the most recent blog a comment written by Charley Rosen of Foxsports.com. One reader called Rosen a respected voice in basketball.
Other readers describe him, well as something less than that. What Rosen wrote is certainly subject to scrutiny.
Item: A reader named Will pointed out that Rosen wrote that Willie Green will turn out to be a better all-around player than Andre Iguodala.
Response: Our first reaction was that Rosen was being misquoted. That was, until we checked the story and he actually wrote that statement.
Our second reaction was that Rosen wrote this as a way to get some attention and appear on somebody’s blog. And if that was the intent, he has succeeded.
It’s hard to believe that he really thinks that is true and if so, then it would be difficult to consider him a respected voice in basketball.
This is nothing against Willie Green, who is one of the classiest people in sports and despite what some in blogsville have written, has been a solid contributor this year.
On a better team, he could be a useful contributor off the bench, but on the Sixers he has been performing as a starter simply because they aren’t overflowing with talent.
That said, Iguodala is a true talent and it’s hard to see why fans are down on him.
Sure, he is far from a finished product, has forced his share of shots and complains way too much to the officials.
Still, Iguodala is a top defensive player who takes on the challenge of playing the opponent’s top wing player on a nightly basis.
He also has cut down his turnovers since the beginning of the season and has gained more confidence in his jumper. If somebody wants to say he shouldn’t be a No. 1 option on offense, that can be accepted.
On this team, however, he is the top option and that is the way it is. And he is still developing in this role.
Remember, Iguodala is only going to turn 24 next week, so the upside is tremendous.
If the Sixers are going to turn it around, he is going to have a huge role.
This has been a tough time for him because he shoulders a lot of responsibility and has taken the losses hard.
For the fan who wrote that Iguodala has lost his fire, well nothing could be further from the truth. If anything, he has taken the losing hard because it means so much to him to win.
If those who write in to pan him could only talk to other executives, coaches and players in the NBA, they would see how highly regarded Iguodala is.
We still feel he has a chance to be a future all-star, especially once the Sixers surround Iguodala with better players.
While Sixers fans have their share of complaints, one thing they have to be happy about is that Charley Rosen isn’t the general manager of this team.
Item: A writer by the name of John suggested that the Sixers were a .24-17 over the second half of last season with Kyle Korver, Steven Hunter and Joe Smith around. He said he would have liked to have seen that group stay, along with the young players. (John was also the one who felt Iguodala has lost his fire).
Response: Is it any coincidence that the emergence of Thaddeus Young really began after Korver was traded? As long as Korver was here, he would have been eating into Young’s minutes. While Korver is an excellent shooter who wasn’t having a great season this year, Young will prove to be a better all-around player, especially at the defensive end. The only way he can develop is to play and if Korver were still here, those minutes wouldn’t be as plentiful.
As for Steven Hunter, he has been banged up this year and didn’t provide the toughness the Sixers need. Say what you want about Reggie Evans, but his bullish way of going for the ball has made an impression on his teammates, especially Samuel Dalembert, who is going after the ball with a ferocity that we hadn’t seen consistently in the past.
As for Joe Smith, he would have been a good player to keep, but if he was eating up cap dollars, and he wouldn’t be here when the Sixers supposedly turn the corner. That’s why the best thing to do was not offer him the 5 million dollars per year the Bulls did. So the Sixers are better in the long run for what they have done.
Item: A reader named Jeff said he isn’t sure Thaddeus Young and Jason Smith aren’t top 7-8 guys on a good team.
Reponse: We can’t say for sure that Jeff is wrong, because both players have a lot of improving to do. However, it seems to us that both Smith and Young will be rotation players on a good team (maybe that will turn out to be the Sixers in a few years). Both players have shown great aggressiveness, a willingness not to back down either offensively or defensively and good athletic ability. Actually Young’s athletic ability is off the charts. If Smith can keep working on a low post game, he would give the Sixers another dimension they desperately need. We know that Smith has been working on his low post game, but it hasn’t been displayed much in the actual games. As for Young, he has a tendency to dribble too much and still not trust his perimeter game. He also must work on his handle, but remember Young is young. He’s only 19 and has shown great progress. We feel not only that he will be a rotation player, but a future starter. Smith at the worst, should be a solid rotation player if not better in the future.
NOTE: The latest podcast is up. To listen: http://go.philly.com/sixerscast
Comments (63)
With Pavlovic out two months,why not trade W.Green to Cleveland for I.Newble.Two benefits to trade.[1] 3 million off cap next year.[2]Carney gets to start and get major minutes.According to coach Calipari, he is a late bloomer.
Posted by suede | January 24, 2008 8:21 PM
Posted on January 24, 2008 20:21
Everybody assumes we will use our cap money on one player.E.S. has said he would like to build a team not lead by just one or two stars.[S.ANT.,DET.].If E.S. thinks T.Young is going to be a second or third level player,same with Iggy,and we get a possible #1 with our pick[Gordon,Beasley,Rose,etc.]than why not use our cap money on 2 or 3 role players[ex.Diop,Cr.Smith,Azubuike].
Posted by suede | January 24, 2008 8:51 PM
Posted on January 24, 2008 20:51
THIS GUY SUEDE IS ALWAYS COMING UP WITH THESE CRAZY DEALS, WHERE DOES HE GET HE'S INFO ?
Posted by TUNA | January 24, 2008 9:08 PM
Posted on January 24, 2008 21:08
First, thanks to Marc for producing this superior journal / blog that allows a freer exchange, discussion of topics Sixer hoops that enables Marc himself and fans to communicate absent many usual editorial barriers, constraints. Without belaboring the point, Marc can express himself in this Blog combining his subjective thoughts applied to the objective numbers in a game. In his other efforts, as a newspaper columnist, he is not afforded (nor is it the norm) the interpretation side to express evaluations of play, efforts, successes and/or failings,as he sees it, as he can here. Marc is working hard with this Blog, and we ought all appreciate his efforts; no other Philly journalist has taken any comparable step as Marc. He at least appears to be his own editor here, whereas the Inquirer has a different structure, and Marc has a different, slightly more "constrained" perhaps role permitted.
As to Charlie Rosen's column, I wont disrespect him, other than to state definitively within the "talent evaluation" side of the NBA, of which I am a member, he has misread entirely Andre Iguodala from a skillset, growth, character, and teammate quality.
Suffice to express it this way: A prominent, very successful, NBA Coach best describes Iguodala as follows:
"Iguodala is a top shooting Coach and a summer of dance classes (footwork, balance) away from a perennial All Star. Top 5 NBA athlete of Olympic level, and already is in spurts a one man defensive wrecking crew as a disruptor, it is only a matter of short time and with what uniform he will be wearing when he truly blossoms. A player who every Contender likely covets equally without a visible ceiling."
Now, the above is virtually a direct quote. League execs have alot of respect for Willie Green, but one player above has the tools and drive to excel at every facet of the game in the correct surroundings, the other has one erratic, dangerous tool, with just dreams for all the others.
Charlie Rosen kind of threw up an airball with respect to his odd assessment. Charlie tends to do that from time to time. Everybody wants a little attention from time to time.
Posted by Mike | January 24, 2008 10:19 PM
Posted on January 24, 2008 22:19
Sixers' winning recipe: Trade Miller for the screen rights to Richard Pryor's story. Insert Dalembert in a sit-down cameo of Sidney Poitier. Carney, Chris Rock on a pogo stick, can light up any stage. Invite Korver to make a guest appearance as Ashton Kutcher. Jimmy Lynam will do just fine as Leo Gorcey (Bowery Boys) calling the shots. Eddie Stefanski can do a Jonathan Winters reprise after winning the draft lottery. Ed Snider is a regal Dustin Hoffman and always a willing quipster, especially when drenched in champagne. The makings are there for a blockbuster. Go, boys!
Posted by Hollywood Cigar | January 24, 2008 10:55 PM
Posted on January 24, 2008 22:55
To Mike: So Iggy is an erratic shooter and is frequently off-balance. Sounds about right. Yet, he's fawned over for raw athleticism and promise of superior play. And personally presumes superstardom. No, thanks.
As for quoted assessment: [Iguodala is a player] "every Contender likely covets equally" - a stretch of a statement by one NBA insider (who frequently err in judgement).
Rosen's supposed "air ball" position - Green over Iggy, long-term - may be based, partly, upon the notion that character is destiny, along with his well-earned evaluative read and instincts. It's not as far-fetched as it may seem.
Posted by Wavy Gravy | January 24, 2008 11:50 PM
Posted on January 24, 2008 23:50
suede, that was the best proposed trade ever on Deep Sixer (even though it's only four months old). Buh bye Willie, hello expiring contract!
And also nice mentioning Diop and Azubuike. Diop is a mountain of a guy and doesn't try to do stuff he shouldn't. Azubuike is a poor man's Iggy, at a fraction of the salary. Azubuike went off in the beginning of the season when he was given the PT.
Disagree slightly with Marc about Thad. He was beginning to show promise before the Korver trade. I would have liked to see Thad at 3 with Korver as backup and Iggy at 2 with Carney as a backup.
Any word on Herb Hill's recovery?
Posted by Trackboy1 | January 24, 2008 11:53 PM
Posted on January 24, 2008 23:53
the sixers will not improve as a team until they find a real first option scoring threat. one or two starting quality players will not mean much as far as wins are concerned. players like diop, azubuike, or newble won't help much, unless you're getting all three of them.
Posted by dbeas | January 25, 2008 12:32 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 00:32
Charlie Rosen is a fraud. I dont even click on his articles anymore. Alot of his commentary seems to be either emotional or just plain off. The problem with writers like that is that they can change opinions because they say certain things. Especially to a basketball fan that depends on other's opinions to have their own opinion. I think its pretty obvious when you watch Willie green with the basketball his game isnt as nearly organic as Iggy's game is. The athletic ability isnt even close. When Willie has the ball in his hands I know one of two things are going to happen. He's either going to bull his way into where he wants to go and force a shot that wont go in. Or he will score. He's not the kind of player that can make a quick adjustment in his game like pass off to somebody when he sees that the defense has collapsed. He doesnt make good decisions with the ball all the time and he's not athletic enough for his physical prowess to bail him out like other players with superior athleticism can. He reminds me of a shorter version of bobby Phills. A guy that does one or two things well and that is that. Andre can be a mixture of Kobe Bryant and Scottie pippen. If thats not special i dont know what is. Besides Andre has to overcome having played with Allen Iverson. I think Sammy is learning how to play alot better now and the "Iverson Effect" is wearing off of him and his game. He's learning how to shoot. Catch the ball. And he is expecting it. The same with Andre. This is first full season of finding out exactly who and what he is. And the bad thing about that is he could have been at this point maybe 3 years ago. So I understand his frustration and having to make it all happen in a restricted free agent year. He should thank Allen. Matter of fact so should Louis Williams. Allen has went to denver and he's running shit over there already. He's no longer playing point guard. And he actually was pretty effective doing it. Now he is just chucking up shots like he did with us expecting everybody else on the team to clean up his mess. And using the prospect of opting out of his contract as a tool to strong arm management to allow him to play his every unefficient game. Either way Iggy is a stud. And having Miller here doesnt hurt things either. Players are developing. We are seeing guys growing finally. I'm happy with the direction of our team. And if some writer from fox wants to say willie is a better player than Iggy. He should have been fired right then and there. Twice.
Posted by Zeru | January 25, 2008 1:02 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 01:02
CENTER:Delembert,Diop POWERFORWARD:K.Love,J.Smith,R.Evans SMALLFORWARD:T.Young,R.Carney TWOGUARD:A.Iguadala,K.Azabuike,W.Green POINTGUARD:J.Calderon,L.Will,D.West HOW? Trade A.Miller for cap space and #1.We need a point that can shoot from deep with Iggy and Thad at the 2 and 3.Trade the #1 from the Miller trade and an expiring contract for D.West.Seattle is probably going to take a pointguard[Rose or Bayless] with their pick.Could this team compete for a title.
Posted by suede | January 25, 2008 1:27 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 01:27
I think that people are probably misinterpreting Rosen in the sense that it is IMPOSSIBLE to think Green has more potential than Igoudala. Rather, I can only imagine Rosen's position - and this is the only defensible position - is that he feels Green might become a contributing player to a winning team while Igoudala might not.
I do think this comes down to character and, related to that, adjustments. We all remember Jerry Stackhouse and Aaron Mckie. I think you could argue the two present players face a potentially similar future. Some would further argue that Mckie became a better "all around player" despite having only a fraction of the talent of the Stack, mostly because Stack never stopped being a drain on his squad in terms of low FG% and too many TOs. It's hard to win like that.
I don't see it myself, I see AI having the right idea. But I thought it was pretty provacative for Rosen to say so. Makes you think.
And the overly emotional responses to Rosen are tiresome. The guy got where he is because he's got opinion and cred. Sometimes he'll be wrong - that's the nature of having an opinion - but not often, and less often than YOU! yeah, I'm looking at you.
Posted by Will | January 25, 2008 2:32 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 02:32
Hi Marc,
A few things:
1. Charlie Rosen must be crazy to think WG will be better than Iggy. Andre already has a solid all-around game and if he improves his jumpshot (highly probable) will be a near All-Star level 2-guard. This assumes Thad at the 3.
2. People are now noticing our youngsters (favorably). Here is a link to Detriot TV station commenting about our youngsters (Thad, Smith, Lou and Carney) tearing up Detroit's lineup and Saunders having to call timeout before things got out of hand. It is the 4th paragraph down.
http://www.tv20detroit.com/sports/pistons/14180072.html
3. Thad is productive now even in an 'off' game for him. I think you (or Jasner) pointed out he had only a few assists the whole season a few weeks ago. Now he's getting a couple of dimes a game per 20 minutes of action (and would have more if Sam or Iggy makes the shot). He also accumulates offensive rebounds and steals at a remarkable rate. As a matter of fact, Thad is *the* most productive Sixer on a per minute basis (efficiency) by some measures (and also seems to be the #1 rookie here - it is hard to compare because it isn't broken out but going through all the top rookies no one had a higher efficiency):
http://www.winsproduced.com/teamstats.php?team=phi?page=?page=
and even in PER where efficiency score goes up for shooting a lot and missing he is the #4 rookie and above the league average (one of the few Sixers above the league average).
4. When is Herbert Hill going to be get some minutes? Is he still injured? It would be nice to see what he can do.
Posted by Chris | January 25, 2008 3:03 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 03:03
I for one can't wait to see what Big Ed's plotting and scheming will bring us. After Bk's performance at the end of last year (lots of bargaining chips but few results.) What a wasted opportunity that was...!!!!!!!!!
I too appreciate Marc's efforts in providing a forum for those remaining sixers fans who care despite the losing. Bandwagon jumpers we aint!
I'm bullish that Ed will reward us with a fresh new look, with a balanced roster, and not just a silly assemblege of just 2's and 3's.
Go Ed....We are counting on you man...!!!
Posted by James | January 25, 2008 7:06 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 07:06
I sure hope Herb Hill is a legit NBA player. I keep seeing how people are begging from him to play like he's Greg Oden, imagine the pressure on the young 2nd rounder. Herb if you're reading, take your time getting healthy, work on your game as much as you are physically able and we'll see you when we see you.
Posted by dre | January 25, 2008 7:16 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 07:16
Marc, The sixer fanatics can't wait to read these blogs. Keep them coming. The sooner the better after games have ended. Can't wait for the next trade suggestion to come out. Maybe, one of the thousands of trade proposals made in your blog will actually happen before the trading deadline.
Posted by sfw | January 25, 2008 7:46 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 07:46
kinda off-topic, can anyone tell me about the basketball IQ of Josh Smith? Does he know what to do in clutch situations? Does he have a post-up game or ever command double teams?
I've seen the ridiculous statlines, is he just getting by on pure athleticism? National TV never shows any Hawks games.
Is he better than Shawn Marion?
Posted by Time_Out | January 25, 2008 8:21 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 08:21
We are running two for one specials on a pizza pie at B & R pizza if the man shaggy williams can get a contract. the only request he has is the stones during warm-ups, chew and doritos at halftime and drinks at cousin joes after the game. sign him up- the kid is nice. mike kutchmarick is a stud
Posted by ron gerlach | January 25, 2008 8:32 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 08:32
Time_Out I live in Atlanta and NO Josh is not better than Marion, peroid!! He's a good instictive ball player but not yet in Shawn Marion's class.
Posted by dre | January 25, 2008 8:37 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 08:37
Charley Rosen:
"The best King James can ever be is an average NBA player"
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/rosen/030227.html
Scroll to the bottom of the page and check the section on the Cavaliers.
Posted by B | January 25, 2008 8:57 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 08:57
I think that NBA evaluator left out one thing that Iguodala DESPERATELY needs to work on - his handle. If he is going to be the Sixers $57 million SG of the future, he absolutely MUST improve his ability to get space off the dribble (one area where Willie Green - and just about every other top-flight SG in the NBA - is better than Iguodala).
I hold my breath every time Iggy drives from the wing...
Posted by bebopdeluxe | January 25, 2008 9:34 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 09:34
Charley Rosen:
"Too bad Brandon Roy and Martell Webster are flops."
Time_out - Not sure about Josh Smith's "basketball IQ" but I know that based on what I saw of his attitude when the Hawks played the Sixers late last season, I'd be more than a little concerned if he were the guy the Sixers brought in as their marquee FA acquisition this summer...Smith essentially made a couple of nice, athletic plays, boarded reasonably well, and stood around whenever he wasn't directly involved in the play, looking sulky, before getting into yet another argument with his coach on the sidelines. He's going to need to do some growing up before he can be a reliable star in the league.
I still think Jose Calderon's the way to go with the FA money, and hope for somebody like Beasley, Lopez, or Love in the draft to help out down low...
Posted by Josh | January 25, 2008 9:40 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 09:40
Kevin Schader was an excellent defender and has the ability to light it up with the best of them.......Kevin Schader also had a playing buddy that went by the name of Botcho..... Botcho and Kevin Schader together is a tag team that you do not want to have to face at the end of a game or at the end of a long night of drinking......................Bottom line they can light it up on the court or in a night club................
Posted by Nick Caputo | January 25, 2008 10:13 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 10:13
Andre v. Willie
No offense Willie, i have respect for the way you came back from the knee thing, and think you're a decent player but:
1. Andre is a better player now - not only does he score about 5-6 more points a game, he puts up numbers in steals, assists, and boards.
2. Andre does the above mostly with "double vision", Willie seldom commands a double team, unless you count the times he just puts his head down and runs down the lane into the entire opposing team.
3. Andre has demostrably improved from year to year already, Willie has not. Someone mentioned ball handling as a weakness of Andre's - it has been, but this is an area where he is demonstrably better, just look at his turnover ratios in stretches over the season.
4. Someone mentioned Andre is an erratic shooter...maybe at times, but you're saying willie green is Mr. Consistency? Andre's field goal percentage is slightly higher, and he has about 300 more points on the season.
Somebody (maybe on yesterday's board) tried to say that Charlie Rosen was prescient for saying that trading for Chris Webber wasnt a good idea...Well you dont have to be prescient to be suspicious of an aging guy of that size with bad knees...I seldom put stock in much that i hear on TV, especially from sports pundits.
Zeru, im glad some people still remember that this is really the first year most of these guys have played without Iverson. So its really the first year they're playing actual basketball, as opposed to just the occasional defense and offensive cleanup duties. To me, this tells the story as well - Willie still is what he is, but Andre has taken steps forward - in ball handling(he used to look alot like thaddeus with the ball), in aggression, etc.
Josh, glad to see others see the potential in Calderon. He's great in ways that we really need to upgrade, and would give us incredible flexibility to get something done with a Miller deal. Plus it likely wouldnt even use up all of our current cap space to sign the guy. I love Miller, and dont think keeping him around would be the worst thing, but I think Calderon would be a great way to go.
Posted by KM | January 25, 2008 10:16 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 10:16
bebopdeluxe, I disagree on 'Dre's handle. I think he has one of the better handles on the team and league for a wing player. I don't see him getting stripped or losing control of the ball. I've seen Miller dribble the ball out of bounds more than I see Dala dong it. I still think he could run the point if his decision making improves. He has the mentality for it.
Posted by Craig | January 25, 2008 10:18 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 10:18
Iggie is a great all around SF who unfortunately does not have a long range shot being forced to play SG on a team that does not have an NBA quality SG and who has a top PG who also can't shoot fromt he outside.
Iggie is destined to fail in this scenario unless Ed S. brings us either a SF/SG who can shoot the lights out and a PG who can do that as well. Of course we also need a PF.
So the only way Iggie can be successful is if the following occurs with the lineup.
PG New PG with good shot
SG Iggie or new SG with good shot
SF Iggie or new SF with good shot Jamison?
PF Brand?
C Dalembert
How they do this is Eddies job, but if it is not done this team will continue to fail.
Posted by grill | January 25, 2008 10:25 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 10:25
Not to rain on the proposed free agent parade, but Josh Smith is not coming to the Sixers. Atlanta has the right and will match any offer that he receives. Believe me, I would love to see him in a Sixer uniform, but it's not going to happen...
Posted by Matt | January 25, 2008 11:07 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 11:07
Craig:
As a long-time partial season ticket holder, we will have to respectfully disagree on Iggy's handle. It may be OK in the open court, but in a tie game with 2 minutes to go, 15 seconds on the shot clock, and Iguodala with the ball on the wing, any drive to the hoop or to create space is an adventure. He is actually OK at passing out of that situation, but in the guts of the game, when your SG has the ball on the wing, he had better have the capability to score the ball - either by getting off a jumper while being guarded or by using the bounce to create space...two things that are not Iguodala's specialty.
Given room, he can occasionally stick an open jumper, but Iggy's "Lloyd Free" like rainbow-shot is far from his strength (he just barely better than 31% from 3-land, which is significantly below Green's percentage - closer to 35% - and particularly bad when you consider that the majority of his 3-point attempts are of the all-alone, Bruce Bowen/Raja Bell variety).
The only way that I see Iggy being an effective SG on this team is if we get a down-low post threat on offense that will give Iggy more space to work with on the floor...otherwise other teams' defenses will simply collapse on his drives to the hoop and either force him to give it up or turn it over (which he does with some frequency). If the other wing player that he was out there with was a legit outside shooting threat (like Korver, Iverson or Joe Smith were in the past), that would also create some space for his drives...but at least at this early stage, that does not look to be Thad's strength.
SO...if Thad is going to be our SF of the future, we need to do one of two things: 1) get a traditional SG who can shoot the ball (we need to have at least one wing player who is an outside threat) or 2) get a low-post PF who can command a double-team in the post and give the wing guys some space. I don't see Iguodala as the answer to #1 above, and unfortunately (unless you want to trade Sammy for Gasol, Amare or another low-post threat - 'cause their ain't one that is going to be available in FA this summer) you may have to consider a S&T of Iggy in order to make #2 happen.
Posted by bebopdeluxe | January 25, 2008 11:10 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 11:10
To M.N, thanks for a great column, I look forward to reading it daily. 6ers have a great young nucleus that needs more playing time and maturity. I live in Detroit, and have been subjected for years watching the Pistons toy with us like a JV squad. When watching the games, they actually play down to the 6ers level. It seems like they don't want to beat them too bad to hurt their feelings, and just keep them in the game to keep the score respectable. So when I go to work the next day, I tell co-workers things will change sooner than you think.
Which is what I want to tell my other Philadelphians, have patience, we won't be down for long. Yes, we all hate losing! The last championship we won was the year I graduated from West Philly in 83. A very long time!! But what I love about the 6ers is how they never stop fighting, which exemplifies Philly. We will be good again real soon, unfortunately I think Mo will not be around to see all of his hard work become successful. When I watch the 6ers, it seems like they have NO set plays. Just running around, and someone/anyone hit a shot. As much as I love Mo, I know big Ed has seen this also. Besides wanting to put his own stamp on the team like most new GM's will do, I predict the coach next season of the 6ers will be John Calipari! He has Philly & New Jersey roots, and I am sure he is ready for another chance at the NBA. What better coach to help bring Carney out of his funk, and have the 6ers running like the greyhounds of Phoenix. I mentioned in my first and only comment before, look for the Matrix in a 6ers uniform next season. Carney needs to eat, sleep & breathe what he does. This is my insight of the 6ers future. Have Patience!
Posted by VDogg | January 25, 2008 11:24 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 11:24
I love Calderon, love his out-of-nowhere story, but he wouldn't be a good fit here and I'd rather use the money for someone who'd make a bigger impact.
Why wouldn't he be a good fit here? Mo Cheeks is our coach, remember that. You'd think that, as a former point guard, he'd be the guy for help with our ball movement issues. We don't move the ball, we don't have finishers. We have terrible spacing and we don't trust each other offensively. Anyone see Calderon's game-winning 3 point play against Boston? That doesn't happen here for those reasons just mentioned.
But people are right in thinking that we do have a shot. They have $8M/year invested in T.J. Ford for 3 more years, and it wouldn't be too smart of them to give his backup $8M, too. If I'm the Raptors, I'm sad to let Calderon go, but that's the biz, they should use the money they get from Rasho Nesterovic's expiring deal to get themselves a slasher/driver type, and re-signing Bargnani. Bryan Colangelo should look at dumping Bargnani and adding Gilbert Arenas, that'd be a great team to watch!
I'd rather the Sixers pick up some sort of scorer who can create shots for himself. Jamal Crawford of the Knicks? Maybe Agent Zero?
Someone here made a good point a long, long time ago, so I forget who it was, but he said something like he was afraid we'd end up like Milwaukee. With the players being mentioned here as potential future Sixers, it's possible. Isn't what Milwaukee has what we're asking for? Low post presence, Bogut, Charlie V? Scorer, Redd? Young, athletic scoring guards, Bell, Williams, Desmond Mason? Scary indeed...
Posted by sixerzguy | January 25, 2008 11:28 AM
Posted on January 25, 2008 11:28
Thanks to Marc N. for this blog. And props to the Philly hoops community for keeping it going. It's a great read - and great source of information.
Willie Green's greatest deficiency for this team is his defense, and defensive abillity happens to be one of Iguodala's greatest assets.
I definitely think that we not only need a low-post scoring threat (easier said than done: No Gasol!), but that we also need veteran on-court leadership. Certainly AMiller is a vet, but he's the only one to get any steady play.
We are moving forward, just not as fast as we'd like.
Posted by Rizzadelic | January 25, 2008 12:17 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 12:17
the comments about that schadder kid and botcho are true, but if you really want to see someone ball show up at the cvco in conygham on wed night and watch galbiati jack it up from half court. but i definately think that whoever signs a contract for the sixers should sign a contract with reebok and bring back the hightops the bartender at the capri wears on a friday night...they're HOT!!!!
Posted by ron gerlach | January 25, 2008 12:34 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 12:34
Not sure what being a partial ticket holder has to do with it, but ok, we disagree. I just know that I've seen him hit game winning/crucial shots driving to the basket and hitting from the outside. And he doesn't get stripped, fumble or lose it out of bounds when dribbling. Now, there are certainly times when he drives that he does not make the shot, but I don't think that has to do with his ability to handle the ball.
Posted by Craig | January 25, 2008 12:40 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 12:40
I happen to share many of the beliefs of Rosen. Obviously, the Green comment was made to get attn but the basis of his commentary was correct. As I have been saying forever Iggy is a third option. He simply is not very good. He can be a stat sheet filler as the sixers love to say about him a 12-15/6/4 guy. His best assest to this team is as a defensive stopper. A quality team mate. He is a Jammer Nelson type, and unfortunately for him worth the same money. I'd give Iggy 3 yrs 18 million. He is only 24 he has time to get that large contract if he earns one.
Otherwise, he is a third option at best. Rosen's synopsis is correct.
Posted by Truth | January 25, 2008 12:41 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 12:41
Green vs. Iggy? Has this guy ever watched either of these guys play? I want everyone who reads this to count the number of times Willie Green passes vs. the number of times he shoots. He is the biggest gunner I have seen in a while (not including AI). This guy will jackit up from ANYwhere. Please pay attention to it next time you watch the game. He shoots more than Bob Salmi talks - and that is a lot. On top of that - he is not a good shooter. Iguoadala is a good all-around player, but he is obviously not great at anything. I think he needs to establish a low-post game to take advantage of his size and athleticism against smaller players. This will force double-teams and lead to open looks and lanes for the rest of the team. They need to get another shooter now that Korver is gone - just someone to spread the floor. With a little luck and some decent off-season deals, this team can compete for a playoff spot next year. By the way, Miller is playing very well this year, but does anyone else notice how bad of a defender he is?
Posted by Vince | January 25, 2008 12:44 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 12:44
The best King James can ever be is an average NBA player
Who ever wrote that has no idea about basketball............ the king is one of the best in the leage..........And the next thing is that the cavs have to make some moves to get better players around him....look back at Michael Jordan he did not win until magnment went and got players so that they can win......... last season the king James carries that tea, on his back.............you better know what you are talking about when you say something..............
Posted by nick caputo | January 25, 2008 12:48 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 12:48
The Sixers are 3 years and about 4 good players away from really competing with teams that have the talent level of Detroit, Orlando, Dallas, SA and Boston. These days you need a top scoring option, top assist man and top rebounder to be competive. Is there anyone who covers any of those on this current Sixers team?
Posted by Joe | January 25, 2008 12:55 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 12:55
everyone talks about josh smith, mike miller, baba booey. whatever. all these guys are soft. sixers need toughness. can't go any further than the "new dr" jon rock. although he's had some "help", he's one of the toughest guys you'd meet. he's been wearing his weight shoes daily while he works on his patients, can't go to gyms since they don't have enough weights to challenge his squat, and picks up and moves cars in order to make a parking spot for himself. who's up for adding some toughness like when we had mahorn and chocolate thunder? let's get the new dr to make a house call at the wachovia!!!
Posted by ron gerlach | January 25, 2008 12:58 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 12:58
Craig:
It means that - in addition to watching virtually every game on television every season for the past quarter-century, I go to 10 to 15 games a year (Section 112, right across from the Sixers bench)...and from that vantage point, you can see things a little differently than on TV...see how defenses react...see missed opportunities to move the ball...things like that. If you took that to mean that because I attend a bunch of games, that my opinion is so much more valid, I apologize.
I still do not agree with your view of Iggy's handle in the half-court set, though. In my opinion, it is not the handle of a $57 million SG...neither is his "rainmaker" jumpshop mechanics (and his 41.3% eFG percentage bears that out). He is still a fine player, though...and I would only consider a S&T if it was in a package that gets us a difference maker at PF. After all, it's a LOT easier to get a productive SG in this league than it is to find a stud PF (2's and 3's are a dime-a-dozen...).
Posted by bebopdeluxe | January 25, 2008 1:21 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 13:21
Charley Rosen has again displayed why he is the leading candidate to run the NYK once I. Thomas is gone.
Posted by Art Mooney | January 25, 2008 1:49 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 13:49
Igoudala would look a whole lot better if he was surrounded by more talent.
Genius, I know, but:
*Miller is overrated as a playmaker (which is fine by me, we need him to have a great rep come trade time);
*Green and Evans play a collective 30-40 minutes more than they are effective in;
*and the rest of the team is very young, although more talented than 3 of the starters.
Replace those those starters from our current bench, the draft and free agency, and Igoudala will be one of those "glue-of-the-team" type players everyone in this town loves so much.
Posted by Morty | January 25, 2008 2:27 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 14:27
ron gerlach is wrong: Josh Smith is tough and works his tail off. He hates to lose and doesn't handle it well, which is one of the reasons he's had run-ins with his head coach.
He has to grow up but he's a warrior.
Matt is wrong: Josh Smith will not be matched by the Hawks unless it's for a sign & trade. Al Horford wants to play the 4, and he's the team's building block. GM Billy Knight staked his reputation on drafting Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams, so Marvin and Horford will be their starting 3 and 4 for years. Josh Smith is available, but they will most likely sign & trade him this summer. They want a center, and Billy Knight loves Dalembert's athleticism, shot blocking and the way he runs the floor. Sammy could thrive with Horford taking pressure off him on the block.
Time Out, yes, Smith's game is still just relying on pure athleticism, but he's young and working on it. He left ATL all summer to avoid distractions and work on his game in Houston with Hakeem Olajuwon. He's smarter this year but has to keep improving. His turnovers in crunk time are still there.
Back the 6ers, this team really, really needs a guard who can defend on the perimeter, like a Charlie Bell, Jarret Jack, Ime Udoka or Kelenna Azubuike. Anyone of them could play well alongside Sweet Lou.
Posted by Trackboy1 | January 25, 2008 2:34 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 14:34
Wow, Sammy didn't make the top ten centers in All Star voting??? No 6ers in the top 10 for guards or forwards either. Thought Iggy would get some votes. No respect...
Zaza Pachulia, the Hawks center, is having issues with his head coach. Josh Smith and Pachulia for Sammy would work under the cap. The Hawks love Sammy. Pachulia is mediocre but passable. Was actually solid last year and the year before. The 6ers would get Josh Smith at power forward, and could draft a center to groom like Roy Hibbert, DeVon Hardin, Hasheem Thabeet, John Riek, Brook Lopez, Kosta Koufos (yes, we also really need a pure point).
http://www.nba.com/allstar2008/allstar_starters_080124.html
East Centers: Dwight Howard (Orl) 2,066,991; Shaquille O’Neal (Mia) 965,171; Rasheed Wallace (Det) 303,978; Andrew Bogut (Mil) 283,576; Ben Wallace (Chi) 256,604; Jermaine O’Neal (Ind) 217,675; Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cle) 205,152; Emeka Okafor (Char) 147,447; Eddy Curry (NY) 107,279; Zaza Pachulia (Atl) 98,593.
Posted by Trackboy1 | January 25, 2008 2:52 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 14:52
Love the idea of Smith, but not for Dalembert. He is like Igoudala in that, the more talent and play makers around him, the better he will do. He's got a very competitive streak I like.
So Smith and maybe a future 1st rounder for Miller straight up makes the most sense to me. The Hawks don't get Sammy, but they get a lot of cap space.
Posted by Morty | January 25, 2008 3:03 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 15:03
Listen you can talk about all the big time players in the NBA..................But if you want to see the real NBA player you have to come up to Heights Terrace......................There you will find all the real players..........Player like Mike Plumbo, Terry Kringe, Brandon AKA Meat Decosmo, John stinky Feet Veet, George the rebonding animal Evancho, Bobby K........ Rand Ronald Marchetti, Joey Pinehead Veet,.........Then the show stoper Joe Marnell.........along with his friend Old White Eyes Keith Segedy..................I will put any team in the NBA up aginst that team..........There coach will be Hazleton Great Bruce Lieb AKA BUGEYE LIEB.........There is no coach that can stop that team........And really I think that this team should take over for the present sixer team.............and then there problems will be solved.........This team possible could win the NBA Title in two years........The bal boy should be none other then Kevin Schader and Botcho along with the new DR. John Rock.............This team could be as great as the Bulls team that won 6 titles............they would bring back the philly pride in basketball..............
Posted by nick caputo | January 25, 2008 3:13 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 15:13
If we give the Hawks Miller, and say Giricek or Green or Carney, could we get back Josh smith and Acie Law? Law could be our potential PG of the future.
Posted by RG | January 25, 2008 3:15 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 15:15
"Al Horford wants to play the 4"
Hmmm, I always thought it was up to the coach to decide where a player goes, not the other way around.
Posted by Benny Profane | January 25, 2008 3:53 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 15:53
If the hawks are smart they stand pat. They have young players with big upside(Horford, Smith, Law) and next year will be a playoff team. Maybe even this year. They've made bonehead moves in the past. So, maybe they'll make another one. Dalembert for J. Smith... Maybe BUT I saw that Smith act last year and if they do that trade it's because he's trouble Not because Horford wants to play PF.
Posted by SFW | January 25, 2008 4:04 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 16:04
"Smith's game is still just relying on pure athleticism, but he's young and working on it."
Sounds familiar...in fact i think you could put the names of at least 5-6 members of our rotation in place of Smith's. a straight trade for dalembert may not be the worst thing since you're still getting a shot blocker in return, but i dont think you can sell the farm for this guy.
Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2008 4:55 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 16:55
I like the thought of Josh Smith as a Sixer just because the Free Agent pool for big men looks pretty shallow. But I'd prefer Eddie use some draft picks and some of our excess swingmen in a BLOCKBUSTER TRADE to bring in a Shawn Marion-type talent. That would be freakin' fun. I do fear the three year plan taking six + years...I'd just assume go the bold route.
The Calipari as coach idea is intriguing...I know Carney has been ineffective thus far but Calipari seemed to know how to bring out Carney's skills more than Coach Cheeks?!?!? We could do worse than Coach Cal. I could really use a breath of fresh air....Sorry Mo.
Posted by James | January 25, 2008 5:16 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 17:16
Things we should be trying.#1 Putting Sam and Jason down on the low block for 15 minutes a game each.If Josh Smith or A.Jamison are in E.S.!s plans,neither is a low post presence.#2 Start Carney and bring Green off the bench.Get Green used to his future role, and see if Carney is in E.S.!s plans.#3 Try Iggy at the point for short stretches, if L.Will is in this teams future as a combo guard, we are going to need a big defensive point to play with him.If Sam develops Cald.Jones jumphook,or Sikmas dropstep it would give E.S. more options.Everybody becomes better on this team with a threat in the low post.
Posted by suede | January 25, 2008 6:21 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 18:21
Remember, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken soup.
Posted by sfw | January 25, 2008 6:38 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 18:38
Zaza Pachulia, pretty interesting. The one thing he does well is score inside. And he's pretty bulky. It's a stretch to play him with another 5, but as a back-up to Dalembert, you can do much worse.
Posted by sean | January 25, 2008 6:51 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 18:51
Pachulia, Marvin Williams, Law/ 1st rounder for A. Miller? I like Miller, but tell me you wouldn't do this.
Posted by sean | January 25, 2008 6:56 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 18:56
Was that shakespeare S.F.W.? Just kidding. Lets watch if Z. Randolph plays any defense tonight,after all, he has to shut down R.Evans.He still is intriging,if the KNICKS want to give him away[Green,Evans,Ollie,and the other RANDOLPH]
Posted by suede | January 25, 2008 6:57 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 18:57
sean, I don't think Atlanta would like the hole at small forward. Unless, Childress could play it. We may want to throw in a 2 guard. I like it. a lot actually but it wouldn't fix our power forward spot. Iggy would have to play the 2 guard. Williams the 3. Law the point. Fills 2 slot's with young and coming players.
Posted by sfw | January 25, 2008 7:03 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 19:03
sean, What happens to Thad's minutes? On second thought, don't see it happening.
Posted by sfw | January 25, 2008 7:05 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 19:05
Don!t think Atlanta gives up that much.Pachulia,Law and Lue or Pachulia,#1pick and Lue.Do you think Miller and our J.Smith gets their J.Smith and expiring contracts.
Posted by suede | January 25, 2008 7:10 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 19:10
M.Williams is a tweener. Not sure he can guard a lot of threes in the league.And in the words of G.Oldman from TRUE ROMANCE "He got white boy game,yes,white boy game,don!t he have white boy game!!!!
Posted by suede | January 25, 2008 7:20 PM
Posted on January 25, 2008 19:20
Marc, your not in the business of winning friends and influencing people. Igoudala, is not the player you think. Without his high wire act, he nothing special. What part of his offensive arsenal, do you consider good ? He may be the best option on a terrible team. SO WHAT ! !
Posted by Pat H | January 26, 2008 12:22 AM
Posted on January 26, 2008 00:22
I'm telling you guys. The Sixers should trade Dalembert and Green or Lou Will to Toronto for Calderon and Nesterovic and a 1st round pick. Toronto could use a center like Dalembert to play with Bosh. They have TJ Ford to play point. Calderon is only 26yrs old and could be the Sixers point for years. Nesterovic's contract expires at the end of the year, clearing $8 million in cap space.
Then trade Miller to Atlanta for Josh Smith. A couple other player would have to be thrown in. Something like: Miller, Carney, and Booth for Smith, Lue, and Lorenzen Wright. That would work as far as salaries. Lue and Wright have expiring contracts, clearing even more space.
That would give the Sixers a line up of Calderon, Iggy, Young, and Smith. They would also have close to $30 million in cap space and a couple first round picks. They could go get the best cen