Deep Sixer

I, for (and maybe the only)one, predicted 38+ wins. I'm still holding out for that. They certainly let a couple of games slip away. They have to play defense like they did tonight to give themselves a chance. Then they have to make timely buckets...like they did tonight. Willie Green came up big.

I was with you on the 32 game prediction.

I am fine with the Sixers winning if they are doing it with their young players (basically everyone but Miller is 26 or younger.) I don't mind Miller running the show if it help our other players develop by keeping the offense running smoothly.

I want to continue to see enough of Young, Smith, Lou and even Carney to know whether these are the guys to build around, and to give them a chance to take their knocks and speed their development.

I was very displeased to see us make that late season 18/9 run on the back of solid veteran play by Joe Smith and Miller last year. That only served to move us out of any shot at the quick fix of getting Oden (we only had 3 more wins than Portland.) We seem to have done well drafting Young, but if we went with our young players last year we would have been better served.

I can see the logic of keeping Miller this season. I'm not sure I fully agree with it, but I can live with it. If Miller's here to guide and groom the young Louis Williams, fine. My suggestion is to decrease Miller's minutes gradually and increase Williams gradually. Williams doesn't need to start, but increase time until you give him about equal playing time. If we want to make him a PG, give him more experience with that. As a SG, he's not as naturally gifted as AI at this age, yet he is short and small framed like AI. I say keep him at PG more than at SG. Same with the PF situation. Ok, Evans can rebound.. let Young play gradually increasing minutes over the next 10-15 games. Spread his time between starting PF and backup SF. Drop Evans' time and allow Smith to play increasing time at backup PF and backup C. Also give few spare minutes to Randolph, Hill, and Amundsen. By the way, use Green as trade bait and send Evans with him for expiring contracts if we can. I say let the young guys play more, and if they play together and get >32 wins, great.. perhaps that means a good free agent may want to join the rebuilding. While I don't really want to lose, if the young'ns end up with a poor record, at least we can rebuild with top level draft talent, provided scouts do their jobs right.

I want the Sixers to win. I knew that they didn't have a shot at defeating the Celtics in the Newbie Garden, but I still wanted some. I can't lie to myself - I root for the Sixers, and I want them to compete in EVERY game. And I want to see this team gel around its fairly young nucleus. There you have it...

Michael F. McGuigan
Upper Southampton, PA

I definately want to see them keep winning. As long as they show case the young guys while doing it. Miller is the only "old" guy I want to see out there. And don't trade him! Sign him to a couple year extension. They will need a PG with his ability when they do get the other pieces. Obviously if there is an offer they can't refuse then fine, but I wouldn't trade him for a bag of balls and expiring contracts. I agree with the trade of Green and Evans. I just don't know if anybody will take them. If they could get expiring contracts for them, that would clear another $7+ million from the cap. That would be enough space for just about anybody that's available.

Or: Trade Green to Chicago for Tyrus Thomas. He's a young power forward that is at the end of the bench in Chicago. They might want Green since Duhon and Gordon are free agents at the end of the year. And Duhon ain't that good anyway. I know Thomas isn't that good either but at least he has more up side than Evans. And if Thomas doesn't pan out, his contract is up next year.

I still say that if you can get a good package for Miller (ala $20M in cap room this summer plus a no. 1 pick or young player)I say you do it. The only reason that you hold on to Miller is if you think you can get something better for him in the last year of his contract than you can this year.

However, for all of you who want to keep Miller, examine your reasoning for that. You want to keep a 32-year-old point guard, your most tradable and marketbale asset, because you want him around to help the youngsters grow on a team that might not even win 30 games? You've got to be kidding me! The name of the game in the NBA is talent. Usually the best teams are the ones that have the best players.

Stefanski has to get more talent on this team, and if shipping A. Miller increases that happening sooner, then ship him. If Big Ed doesn't get a deal that he likes, then keep him and see what deal you can get at draft time or at next year's trade deadline.

No matter what we think, I believe A. Miller is gone at the deadline. If Stefanski will be satisfied with a 30-win season with the hope that this team will be slightly better next year by holding on to Miller (then winning 33 games instead of 30), then we got another BK clone as a GM.

I trust you, Big Ed. Please don't disappoint us.

I think the team should definitely keep winning. The main difference between this season and last is that young players are contributing more the wins. If young players are winning the games there's more positive coming from the move.

In regards to the draft, I'm not really crazy about getting a freshman. The guy I hope they target (and winning shouldn't hurt their chances to get) is Roy Hibbert. He'd be perfect here even if the Sixers address the front court in free agency/trade.

The priority for the rest of the season should be to establish what players are part of the Sixers future and determine how long it is going to take for that "core" to be competitive.

If you don't see this current team being able to win the Division in the next three years, then why hold on to Andre Miller? Why make a run at Elton Brand? Why not use the cap space for one of the restricted free agents, like Josh Smith or Jose Calderon, and build a young team with room to grow?

I obviously want to see more of Thad Young and Louis Williams and less of Wilie Green. I don't think wins and losses matter at this point, but I don't think they should be actively trying to dump games. This is not going to be a quick fix in the off season and, presto, next year they win 60 games. They still need a lot of improvement in the talent department.

Winning is never bad. Draft picks are overrated.

Ask yourself, "who on the current team can you honestly see starting for a Championship-caliber team" because that is what we are trying to build.

I count 3...Dalembert, Iguodala and Young. All of these guys need to continue to develop, but they have shown enough to make me believe.

That is not to say that we don't have some other good players that can play a role, but the above three have All-Star caliber potential. I can't say that about anyone else on the roster.

Therefore Ed should use anyone else PLUS any of our future draft picks as "chips" to get us two immediate CONSISTENT NBA CONTRIBUTORS.

I like Andre Miller and Jason Smith, but would part with both if they bring us an upgrade to the starting line-up.

I would lose no sleep over losing Lou Williams, Willie Green, Reggie Evans or Rodney Carney if they can be useful "chips"...nor would I object to them coming off the bench for us if they aren't used in a trade.

What do you think guys?

The only way I would trade Sam for Gasol is if we draft Hibbard to replace him.This would make us a half court team.I don!t think E.S. wants that. He says he likes how athletic we are,which makes me think he wants to run.

I agree with the poster above who said he'd like to see the Sixers keep winning, but only if it means the younger guys are the ones leading the way.

Things I'd like to see happen in the 2nd half:

Iggy being moved to the two, Thad starting at the 3, and a drastic reduction in Willie's minutes. We all know exactly what type of player he is, and I don't see him being part of a winning future.

If they can win with this formula, all the better.

I'd like to keep Miller. Try and use the cap room (and maybe a bit of the luxury tax) to sign a PF and see how the team plays with Miller, Iggy, Thad, a PF, and Dalembert, with Williams and Smith comprising the rest of the core rotation. You gotta give it a shot, and if they still stink, then Miller will be an even better chip next year because of his expiring contract.

I agree with the poster above who said he'd like to see the Sixers keep winning, but only if it means the younger guys are the ones leading the way.

Things I'd like to see happen in the 2nd half:

Iggy being moved to the two, Thad starting at the 3, and a drastic reduction in Willie's minutes. We all know exactly what type of player he is, and I don't see him being part of a winning future.

If they can win with this formula, all the better.

I'd like to keep Miller. Try and use the cap room (and maybe a bit of the luxury tax) to sign a PF and see how the team plays with Miller, Iggy, Thad, a PF, and Dalembert, with Williams and Smith comprising the rest of the core rotation. You gotta give it a shot, and if they still stink, then Miller will be an even better chip next year because of his expiring contract.

The sixers are in a weird position, if better than market value offer for Miller comes along this season - the Sixers should take it. Miller is good but replaceable, he's a luxury like Korver.

If not, the sixers would still be in good position. Miller can help lure a big name free agent who can help the sixers win the division this year. Or they can trade Miller and his expring contract in the off season, or again near the trading deadline.

It's not so much a matter of winning or loosing, as much as it is seeing what players we have and where the weak links are.

It still seems to be apparent that we lack scoring and ability at the 4 and 5 spots. Dalembert is competitive some nights, but he doesn't appear capable of leading any team to a title, not when he gets abused by Andrew Bynum.

Evans is too one dimensional. He can rebound, but he can't score which means the Sixers play 4 on 5 on offense. That just can't work!

Igoudala, Young and Williams are the hope of the team, but they need someone with experience around to lead them, so Miller has to stay for now.

Those who think we should trade him should consider how much we're giving up. Can Willie Green or Lou Williams man the point now? Or, is your plan to bring Kevin Ollie back into the line-up?

I don't think the team has enough talent to compete anyway, so wins mean nothing to me. Lets see what we have, especially at the 4 and 5 spot, who can play on a competitive team and who just can't play or contribute well enough.

Amundsen, Randolph and Hill. They're on the team, but we never see them. Instead we see Calvin Booth- who shouldn't be in the NBA. This team went 2-8 in their last 10 games. Not a competitive team. That means you develop your players, and not worry about winning!

Young's "almost daily basis" improvement hasn't been observed by this fan. Obviously, he can run, jump and disrupt defensively with his quickness and wingspan. Let's not anoint him the second coming of KG or even Cedric Maxwell (liked that comparison) just yet. Good potential shown. Has a lot to learn. That he's reported to be an alert and willing student bodes well.

As for the team and the 2nd half, gotta max it out, wherever that lands ya in the draft, to retain organizational self-respect. Baby collegians might or might not round into projected form. Remember Shawn Bradley (2), Sharone Wright (6), Keith Van Horn (2) and Tim Thomas (7)?

Suggestion: Trade Andre Miller if he'll bring a needed piece or two by deadline. May run the team well but can't guard anybody at this point in his career. Would afford more developmental/evaluative minutes for youngsters.

The sixers are only TWO quality players away from being a good team. They have cap room, so why trade Miller?

Thad's improvement is marked by the little things. Watch him as he does a good job boxing out on rebounds. Also his play on the defensive end recently is a much better than it was early on (which is why he's getting more minutes). Just have to hope his work ethic keeps him at it during the offseason. Interesting note though: he's averaging about 11 points and 5 rebounds when he plays 20 or more minutes.

Now about Andre Miller.. while I'm beginning to be won over by the guy, his value is high right now. You shouldn't trade him for anything, but there will be someone willing to fork over a pretty penny for him and if you're the Sixers you have to take it.

I like the idea of Sammy, Iggy & Thad being the beginning building blocks. Sammy's weaknesses can be covered up by a legitimate power forward. Lou W. and Smith will be very good top of the rotation players(Lou could develop as a starting point guard). All others including Andre M. should be the trade market for the right price. Fortunately, Ed S. will be making the decisions not BK(too many loyalties to the current players).

Again, Miller's a defensive liability and a consumer of minutes better spent elsewhere. Why keep him? He's not takin' this young team anywhere. I disagree that Sixers are missing just 2 quality players. 3 or 4 is more like it. Sixers aim is "championship" not "good" - at least it should be.

Marc, maybe you can help clarify us on this issue.

My understanding is that in this coming off season, the Sixers are one of the few teams that will have significant cap space, and this is before they trade Andre Miller. If Big Ed can trade Miller for an expiring contract, then the Sixers will be the clear market leader this summer in terms of cap space. I think we are all in agreement that the Sixers are at least 2 players away from being competitive. If they trade Miller and end up with 20mm in cap space this summer they clearly will be able to land the top notch PF they need because they will control the free agent market. From what i understand this will not necessarily be the case two summers from now. Our chance to make a huge move is this summer when all of those bad contracts come off the books. (I agree with Mark's post a few weeks ago lobbying for Josh Smith. Brand's age and achilles tendon just worry me too much to lock him up long term to huge dollars). Also, trading Miller accomplishes the goal of playing our young guys and seeing what they can do. I am not advocating that we tank like the Celtics did last year. (btw Boston--karma is a bitch.) But without Miller the Sixers will be forced to rely on Lou and Thad which is the only way to speed their development and at the same time they probably will not win as many games which will help our chances in landng a high pick in the draft. (i think this is our year to get lucky in the draft, btw. So through the draft we could add that second piece, probably a point guard (derrick rose) that we can build on. So next year we probably will not win the division, but...

iggy
thad
rose
josh smith
slammin Sammy
lou will
jason smith
mid-level free agent (juan carlos navarro, but only if you end up with 20mm by trading mIller this summer and have extra dollars after over paying josh smith)

well, let's just say i will be renewing my season tix for the foreseeable future and we will be running 90% of the teams in the league out of the gym--especially those tanking celtics

mark, does this make sense? If the cap figures are wrong, we need to know so we can focus on our jobs instead of Big Ed's.

If you trade Miller,you have another hole to fill.Two quality players [JAMIESON,GORDON] or[CALDERON,BEASLEY] free agent,draft pick; make this team an EASTERN CONFERENCE CONTENDER next year. Use A.Millers value wisely.

Is Z.Randolphs baggage not worth the risk if you could unload R.Evans,W.Greens contracts in the deal. N.YORK seems willing to take back bad contracts[Gadzuric,Simmons].With enough good people around him,[Dre!s,Thad,etc.]could he work here?Wonder what Cheeks relationship was like when he coached him.

Like several others, its more important to me that our young 'uns are getting meaningful experience than it is to win. If the kids can make it happen when they're out there, thats the icing on the cake. But i do not want to see any tanking. Winning is a habit, and so is loosing. I do not want to see these young guys developing bad habits.

As for Miller - I still think that IF you're going to move him, its best to wait for the draft to play out first. He will still have more than enough (if not equal or greater) value in the off season. If you come out of the draft with a stud point guard, or if you can sign a Calderon, Miller is a GREAT trade piece. If you just trade him and don't have another guy lined up to take his place, i don't think you've really accomplished much. You may have filled one hole, but now you have another one. And as i believe someone else observed, good luck trying to sign a blue chip FA to a team with no clear answer at point. The reason Miller's trade value is so high is that he's a really good player, defensive faults not withstanding. The only way i'd be tempted to move him before the draft is if part of the package brings us first round pick that figures to be in the top 8-10.

Personally, i'd think love to see them go after Calderon, then package Miller for a blockbuster trade. Imagine this team with a point who can shoot the three like that? If you liked how Korver stretched the floor... Things look much better already. Then you still add in whatever assets you pull from the Miller deal... I don't think this will actually happen, but the more i think about it, the more i like it.

A basketball team cannot function properly without a sound PG. I agree with Marc more from the standpoint that, unfortunately, the Sixers dont even have a true PG on the bench. Lou can for short spurts be a primary ballhandler, but he's a 2 guard. Iguodala can run the team in half court sets, but that ought be as a change of pace, as it is now.

While a low post scorer is a top priority, although I cant rule out Thad becoming a Matrix type 4, an equally high priority is to secure a young athletic PG who has the tools and mentality to distribute, playmake, defend, and hit the 3.

Either a Steve Nash or Chris Paul protege, lol. A kid on a soccer field with that vision to transfer to the hardwood.

Without Miller, who is not the greatest distributor but is all we have, it will be impossible to evaluate properly the kids. So, think he stays unless his replacement prspect is offered back in a trade as a risk worthy tradeoff w a bunch of those tools the PG has embedded w unselfishness and distributing.

If they have a realistic chance of sneaking into the playoffs then by all means, keep playing the vets, squeeze in the youngsters for a few minutes here and there and forget the draft. If you're rebuilding and there are quality players coming out of school this summer, then maximize the minutes of your young talent to fully evaluate and groom them for the future. (I'm not saying you have to tank the second half as transparently as Boston, Portland and Atlanta did last year, but the loss of character they experienced has not exactly hurt them this year.)

KM essentially wrote first what I repeated. Oops!
Next time shall read others first, then try and add my 2 cents. So be it

The one thing that actually, in todays NBA, decreases Miller's trade value, in a Contender eyes, is his lack of shooting range- he's not a 3 point threat.

Sure, either is Tony Parker, but every other of the elite NBA teams much prefers their primary PG to have extended, long range shooting in his arsenal particularly as close games wind down. Just a tidbit to throw in the mix re evaluating Miller's value if/when dealt

Can you imagine a team with Matrix, Iguodala, and Thad with Sammy?

That would be, with the proper PG,mix in Lou, a team that would wreak havoc with any opponent, and have the tools to be a legendary transition team for the ages. The versatility would be off the charts.

Add in a few Snipers, JS,Herbert; that atleticism w size, hops, defensive havoc I'd take rther than the Elton Brand direction, which defeats the entire uptempo athletic core being built.Imagine that excitement, and I believe success

Winning is an Altitude!
Cast another vote with you Marc. My number was 35 wins. I agree with the earlier comment that you want to try to win every game, but you want to do that with the young players.

BTW, Keep up the good work Marc.

The sixers should definitely look into getting Josh Smith, Ben Gordon, Tyrus Thomas, Elton Brand, antawn Jamison, Hell! maybe even Zach Randolph or Jermaine O'neal, But PLEASE Big Ed, at least talk to Denver about Allen Iverson. Who knows, new management, a new team, AI still loves Philly, why not take a shot. They definitely need a closer like all-star who can close the door on games when the rest of the team is struggling. As everyone has probably noticed, the sixers are HORRIBLE in the fourth quarter. PLEASE BIG ED, make some more moves and bring back a legend who never should have left....

GO NUGGETS!!!!!

PS - the sixers will win 33-34 games this season, Top 5 pick anyone??

I repectfully disagree with any notion of any Iverson return. The team being built is about the future, not the past.

All very young teams need to have the time to learn how to close out games on their own.

With some of the truly horrendous team bringing it this year in this league, I think there'd be a small chance the Sixers get a top 3 pick even if they do suck that bad.

There's only one guy on the board that I would die for, and that's Beasley, but the Sixers won't fall in that slot because other teams suck worse with weaker hearts and worse coaching. After pick 3 through the end of the lottery is always even so **** tanking like the C's tried last season.

So I want this second half to show me more of the good things they showed the first half. I want to see Thad get a lot of maturation done. Same with Lou. I want Sammy Delight to keep getting tough. I want to see Iguodala find his game for real.

I mean, talent wise, we don't have a championship squad here, and with this not in the future either, but they seem to have such strong chemistry. Some parts, like Miller and Green, I'd not mind letting go at all, but as like every one of our opponents' players been saying, if these guys could stick together and grow up together, with some additions to the posse, I see some bad men in them making success for Philadelphia basketball.

I think Young could be a Prince-like SF, some offense, lots of defense, smart player.
Iggy needs to stop relying on his fadeaway, with his leaping ability, he should just shoot over his defender or pass out. I'm also disappointed in his whining to the refs and his body language whenever the game gets tough.
Stop trying to trade everybody away! Evans and Green are good bench players, playing starter minutes. Every good team needs hustle guys like them for the 15 minute run. Remember Bell, Bowen, Parker, Salmons, the kid in GS? Not one All-Star but solid players just needing the right superstar/coach to play with.
Cheeks needs to play Smith and Carney to see if they're an upgrade over those two guys.
And I don't understand all this talk about the draft? Last time I checked, Oden is out, Seattle is struggling with 2 top picks, the Bucks aren't any better than us with their top pick playing...Am I missing something? What team really improved this year because they had a top pick?

Oden will make a good Blazer team pretty damn scary next year. Atlanta got a great pick and is in position to do some serious dealing.

In response to poster David Lee:
"And I don't understand all this talk about the draft? Last time I checked, Oden is out, Seattle is struggling with 2 top picks, the Bucks aren't any better than us with their top pick playing...Am I missing something? What team really improved this year because they had a top pick?"

Seattle is struggling but they are headed in the right direction.You still have to remember they are still only ROOKIES.You have to start somewhere, Durant and Green are the young building blocks.

Portland is better because their draft picks(Aldridge,Roy,Webster) from previous years are paying huge dividends.Wait until Oden is added to the mix.

Milwaukee are on pace to win 32 games they won 28 last year.Atlanta is doing better than last year also.We all know that the teams don't get better overnight but wise drafting pays off in the long run.

Do you suggest we go the route of the Celtics and try to win it all within a three year time frame?

I hope to see the Sixers continue to gain team chemistry thru out the rest of the season. A thought about Andre Miller I would like to see him a Sixer for the rest of the year as well into his final year of his contract, unless some team is going to give Ed an offer he can`t refuse. Andre`s a high than average true point. If the Sixers can get a J. Smith or another highly sought after free agent, wouldn`t having a player who knows how to distibute the ball be helpful. Let Andre playout his contract rather than trade him. Well get basically the same thing back for not trading Andre and letting him play out his contract as we got for Korver some cap space. Why try and sign two big name free agents in one year, when you can sign one this coming summer and maybe another one if needed the summer after that. I have one question why can`t Lou Will devolp into a 1. After Iverson I really don`t wanna see a 6 foot 2 guard.

Maybe it's just me but I don't want to stand pat with our current roster and simply add a pick and a free agent.

With the FA crop out there (Smith, Brand, etc.) and a non-lottery draft pick I'm not feeling real confident that we would be much better than .500 next yrar.

We need Big Ed to do some reconstruction here. Hopefully he will balance out the team by thinning out our herd of 2's and 3's (BK's favorite collectables)and maybe we can actually win by some other means than by just running. We have no choice but to run now, but it's stricktly due to our lack of personnel.
I'm pretty sure Ed is "on it" as we speak.

...But please don't just "add two pieces" to Billy King's Frankenstein sixers experiment.

I believe that we need 2 new starters and a deeper, more talented bench in order to win. I'm ok with Iggy, Sammy, and Thad staying as future starters, but I would prefer an upgrade at the 1 and 4.

Miller's a good PG, but we need a younger, defending, shooting, distributor. PF is the major concern, and I believe will be addressed this off season.

As for the bench, Louis Williams can't remain IF he is an AI clone. It didn't work the first time around, and he's too small as a 2 defender. I suggest allow him to learn the PG position and become a pass first guy off the bench. We need other bench scorers so that we don't lose offense when the starters take a breath.

We can't keep Green cuz he's proven to be a volume shooter in order to make his points, and he's not especially quick. Please trade him for expiring contracts. I believe he has a little trade value.

Carney's has no O. I don't understand how it is that players in the NBA can't shoot. If he can't prove to learn to be a strong defender, he should go.(throw him in with a trade)

Evans will get a few rebounds and that's all. He should be a third option at PF or traded.

To be a player, Jason Smith needs to add on the weight of Charles Barkley's behind.. so it's not just starters we need guys.

sorry, I forgot to include my name in the last post.

If Green can shoot 45% and score 15 points a game,he may be an option as a scorer off the bench.At least he can defend and has some size.I"m more concerned with L.Will.He kills us defensively,if he can!t play the one off the bench maybe he!s the one you deal.

Troy & rzzzz - my comments on the draft was for the all the people obessessing about our draft position if we win too many games. Just like a lot of the posters, I think we should try to max out our wins and let the draft pick fall wherever it falls. I just think it takes alot more than just a top 3 pick or two to setup a franchise (remember when we had Stackhouse and AI) for a championship run. Right now our three best players were 9 or later in the draft and our most effective bench player was a second rounder.

Sorry I haven't posted for a while; moved into a new house this weekend that doesn't have internet service yet. Comcast screwed up the work order, and I'm still not online. SHOCKING!!

Anyway, to those of you who want to "win" and keep Andre Miller...Ed Stefanski officially gave up on the season when he traded Kyle Korver. There's zero point to keeping Andre Miller here - he's a massive defensive liability and is going to get even slower with age. While he can run a team, he's clearly not the long-term answer for the Sixers at PG. Therefore, max out his value and trade him.

Additionally, I totally disagree with Mark's assertion that this team has the talent to be "better than a 32 win team." Before the team traded Korver, the Sixers would have been lucky to win 38-40 games, maybe gaining a 7 or 8 seed in the playoffs. I think everyone can agree on that. However, since trading the team's only outside threat and receiving garbage in return (for this year's campaign), how can anyone possibly say that this team has the ability to surpass the 32 game win total? They have no perimeter threat, no post-up threat, no perimeter defense, and zero cohesiveness. My guess is that they finish under 30 wins and trade away Miller.

And, I'll state this again...if Andre Miller is on this team after the trade deadline, Ed Stefanski has done a horrible job in his first year as GM. Making the team non-competitive (trading Korver) while not taking advantage of the opportunity to max out available cap space (not trading Miller) will rank up there with the worst of Billy King's moves (Kenny Thomas).

You can also take the Boston Celtic approach and attract good free agents with your other offseason moves. For example if we to end up tanking late and bring in Eric Gordon or Beasley or Jordan don't you think a top FA will want to play along side that young talent. Also, if we keep Miller FA know they have a pass-first point guard to spead the ball around. And lets not forget guys do chase the money as well.

NBA Franchise Player Survey Results:
http://reclinergm.wordpress.com/2008/01/21/who-would-be-your-nba-franchise-player-survey-says/