Deep Sixer

I like the idea of adding Artest. He does have character issues, but like somebody on a previous post pointed out, he will be on his best behavior because he plans on opting out at the end of the year. I wouldn't give up much to get him, maybe Green, Carney, and Utah's pick but thats about it. I also think Thad could learn a little something from him. Maybe pick up on Artest's great defense.

Marc, to answer your question: I would be extremely disappointed if they don't make a move before the deadline! I don't care witch way, just make a move! Either trade Miller, Green and maybe even Dalembert for youth and picks or go get a PF that could help us in the playoffs. I would love to spoil Bostons year. The way we look now, we will barely make the playoffs and be lucky to win a game when we get there. All while dropping further in the draft. I wouldn't care how far we fell if we could knock Boston out in the first round and Artest could help do that!

If it is true that Stephen A. said this on his show, then I think Stefanski's interest in Artest is a little more than smoke. Again, Stephen A. is usually on point with most of his inside stuff and he's a lot better at this stuff than Marc and Phil, who are usually the last to know when something like this happens.

And also, we all know Artest is loony. But what would the 76ers have to lose with this? You get $14M to $16M in cap space, you can either resign Artest to a short contract or sign and trade him to get other talent, and you get to hold on to your best player, Andre Miller, and his $10M expiring contract to do big things come this year's draft or summer free agent frenzy.

The only thing you are giving up is Willie Green, Carney, Ollie and Utah's 2009 no. 1 pick. Sounds like a no-brainer to me.

Anyone agree or disagree?

I think the Artest trade would help with attendance too. Snider was just complaining about the poor fan turn out. Adding Artest would add to the win total and show fans they want to win. Plus more fans would show up just to see what crazy thing he does next.

While adding Artest would make us more talented it makes no sense. we already have enough 2-guards and small-forwards on this team and besides that were will he play. Andre is a natrual 3 if you put him at the 2-guard spot he will be averageing as many turnovers as he did at the begining of the season. But I still like the idea of tradeing for him as we trade him for a soild Power Forward.

Artest could handle the PF position. He's tough enough. And Iggy is the starting SG anyway next year. Thad will be the starting SF.

Hey if we're going to make the playoffs anyway, we may as well make some noise. I think Miller, Iggy, Thad, Artest, and Sammy could put a scare in Boston! With Evans coming off the bench to just pound on KG. Plus Lou Will and Ja. Smith!

I almost convinced myself this team might have a shot! Yea right! 23-30! What was I thinking?

If we are going to be on the fence with this draft pick(lottery or not), I'd say Utah's number 1 pick and those players would be perfect to give up for a piece that will help us this year. If it's an expiring contract OR a young player who will help going forward then let's do it. From a player personnel point Artest will fit. He could play some 2, 3 or 4 and help in the post. He also plays 'D'. Obviously, his history works against him.
Can anyone think of another player who realistically could come here for that type of deal without giveing up critical pieces? I think Ed will make some deal before the deadline passes. They need to put people in the seats.

I scoured the NBA rosters and one person came to mind. How about Kurt Thomas on Seattle. 8 Mil expiring contract. Girichek, Green and no 1 or another would work financially. He could move into the rotation at the 4 & 5. Iggy could move to the 2. TYoung to the 3.

Dunk contest tonight, remember Iggy's dunk from two years ago?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6z9-l4hnMM&feature=related

Maybe we should give Iggy max money, give him the responsibility, maybe the pressure is what he needs. Maybe Iggy does the opposite of what happened to Jordan - Jordan only became a better teammate and defender later on in his career, but was one-man assault team early on.

How about this playing out for Iggy: He's a great teammate now, great defender, but later on he's this amazing offensive force? Maybe he's trying to be too much like the old Michael Jordan, when he needs to have some of that young Michael Jordan. The way he was playing on Wednesday, I think he could've easily scored 40.

Marc mentions Thad over Sean Williams. Yes, Williams, has character issues, but he is a top tier shot blocker and has the potential to be a force on the block.
If Thad gets his outside shot working this summer, I really like him as a 3. Too much toll on his body covering big 4's. He needs to be a 3.

I'd gamble on Artest for Green+Carney+Ollie+2009 Utah #1.

He probably opts out, which gives you about $15M under the cap this summer. And if he doesn't, he still a $8.4M expiring contract to deal.

And you still have Miller's $10M expiring deal after 2009.

Win-Win.

And no, I wouldn't be disappointed if the Sixers make no moves by the deadline.

SFW - Because Giricik was already traded this year, he cannot be combined with another player in a trade this season. The Sixers can move him, but it has to be by himself or with a draft pick.

For example, the Sixers could trade Giricik and a #1 to Memphis for Kyle Lowry. Memphis has enough cap room ($3.5M) to take on the difference in salary, and he's an expiring contract next season. The real purpose of the deal for Memphis would be to get a first rounder (Utah's or the Sixers' in 2009) for Lowry.

In terms of Artest, I'd do that deal in a second - it's a no lose situation. He's not going to blow up this year and jeopardize a huge payday next season; at the worst, you get an add'l $4M off the cap by subtracting Willie Green's salary.

To answer Marc's question above, if Stefanski doesn't make a deal by the trade deadline, why is he here? Ed has two ways to go here...he can either ultimately trim salary by trading Andre Miller / making the Artest deal, or he can make a deal for a young prospect by himself ,like a Kyle Lowry, or he can combine that young prospect with a need that the Sixers clearly have such an outside shooter (Mike Miller).

Whatever route he chooses, the worst route would be to stay the course. Yes, there are clearly bad deals out there that could negatively affect the Sixers for years to come. Ed was a part of that in NJ this summer when he and Rod Thorn inexplicably signed Vince Carter to a 4 yr $70M deal. However, he runs the Sixers now, and it's his JOB to sort through the mess and make the correct decisions going forward. The Sixers have personnel needs and need cap space; they have an opportunity to achieve both before the trading deadline on Thursday.

The optimists won't agree, but this season's in the can. False sense of gusto gotten by 5 game home stand that lined up favorably. From here, I'll only be disappointed if roster isn't upgraded before next season's training camp. Ed's not attempting to maneuver from a position of strength. It can and probably will take time.

Glad to give Marc something to chew on yesterday with this post on Thad.

Drafting Thad Young was the best thing to happen to this franchise since we won game 1 against the lakers in the finals. If the draft was redone today and we had the 3rd pick, you bet your azz I would be rooting for us to pick Thad even over Horford. Big Al will be a solid pro but our boy Thad has the makings of a superstar, or as I told my buddy today a FUTURE DREAM TEAMER.

Glad to give Marc something to chew on yesterday with this post on Thad.

Drafting Thad Young was the best thing to happen to this franchise since we won game 1 against the lakers in the finals. If the draft was redone today and we had the 3rd pick, you bet your azz I would be rooting for us to pick Thad even over Horford. Big Al will be a solid pro but our boy Thad has the makings of a superstar, or as I told my buddy today a FUTURE DREAM TEAMER.

Anonymous, good points!

Why would Sacramento do this, they are loaded at the 2 position. Rather save Utah pick for late one this year, your right S.F.W. , it has value.Artest is going to take who!s minutes, Thad, Carney, or Iggy, for a 1 year rental? He is going to want 12 to 16 mill. next year, are you willing to pay that for him?

Greek, have to disagree, we had THAD, in Iggy, Horford or Noah were the perfect fit for this team. Then Korver is still here and were a legite playoff team[500 record]?

Whoever wants artest, don't bother with the rumors.

Whoever wants artest, don't bother with the rumors.

I won't be upset if the sixers don't make a deal before the deadline.

Since Oden is out the entire season, I believe he will retain his rookie status and he will be elgible to play on the rookie team next season.

Suede, you're supposed to be in blogger cold turkey ski-ing!!!!!!!!!!! He'd be taking Willie's minutes, plus...................

The Artest thing interested me on the face, but the only reason was the possibility of him opting out at the end of the year and freeing up more cap space. After thinking it over, i definitely would not want to make a meaningless playoff run with a guy who's not sticking around (and i wouldnt want him to stick around). All things considered, there are probably better ways to move a contract or two. Besides, I think we need to keep Carney around at least through this year - his play lately has earned him a bit more of a look.

Speaking of all star games - i caught part of the celebrity game last night. maybe we could bring in that #81...looked like he had some game. (yes, thats a joke)

Anonymous:

Choose a name, buddy, that is too much like work to type!

But seriously folks, I would not be disappointed if ES does not make a move by the deadline. I've stated before that I think draft time is the right time to make big moves.

Furthermore, anonymous, ES has stated in pretty much every interview I've read that after the Korver trade, we have enough cap room to make moves. Remember, in a trade or sign and trade deal, we can take back 10 mil more than we give out. Meaning, we could acquire a 20 mil player in exchange for Sammy, or Miller, or some other combination of players. Don't worry about cap space. Worry about the player(s) we acquire.

Morty, I still think because of lack of attendance, Ed may feel the pressure to do something......

Who was No 81? Shagg?

watched 1/2 of the rookie game. Yi better hit the weight room. He has no hand strength. the defenders are just swiping at the ball to knock it away. If he doesn't get stronger he'll do nothing in the league. He is not ready now. Villanueva must be steaming on that Buck bench. Unless he doesn't care..........

sfw:

Agreed. However, I hope that it is not a determining factor. About the only thing I wouldn't mind is picking up Artest on the cheap as has been discussed. Any other short term attendance boosting trade is a horrible idea, in my opinion.

sfw:

Haven;t seen Yi play other a game or two against the Sixers. Sounds like we dodged a bullet not being able to move up to take him.

Morty, Yi has some skills. Just seems he has to hit the weight room. I guess those videos of him prepping for the draft against that trainer didn't show that flaw to the Bucks.

How about Minnesota's Green by way of the Celtics & the kid Golden state drafted out of North Carolina. They wouldn't work out against other players prior to the draft. I guess we now know why..........

Fortunately, we didn't draft either of them.

S.F.W., got Joes laptop, like to see a young player ,#1 pick, or even a #2, since we won!t have one this year; Use Gericik or Ollie to acquire a player or pick and a lesser valued expiring contract [1.5 to 2 mill. ] If we gain a young player or pick, it may be worth losing a miil.or so of cap space.

Thought you'd be going cold turkey. You missed my entry yesterday. Gotta go. Have fun.

Gee Snider must of thought when he fired BK and brought on Stefanski that alone would bring more fans out to the games. RIGHT! So what is he complaining about? He made the right decision for the organization or so he said. What does he believe now?

Could we now be buyers instead of sellers at the deadline?

We are 2.5 games out of 6th, 6 games out of 5th spot in the east. Perhaps this Artest rumor is foreshadowing that Ed may be seeing that this team is playing well together, why not get a piece or 2 to compete.

Artest? A run at Wilcox from Seattle? What do u think?

I'll tell you that this Artest rumor got me thinking that we ARE buyers now. Acquiring a SF that could come in so that we can move Dala to the 2, acquiring and top notch 2 and keep Dala where he is, or a 4 to move Young to 3 and Dala to 2. We need some more scoring, but I don't want to sacrifice defense for scoring. Artest is so intriguing because he can do both. Put him on the teams best offensive player. But I hesitate, naturally, because of his mental state. Don't want him to poison the young guys. Lamar Odom could be that guy, but we'd have to trade Miller for him (I pause).

Also, can I resubmit my request for Ike Diogu or will I be booed off the stage? I'm telling you the kid is Reggie Evans with offensive game. Plus he's shooting over 80% from the charity stripe. I'm guessing he could be had for expiring contracts since he's wasting away on Indy's bench.

KM,
"i definitely would not want to make a meaningless playoff run "
We already look like we're going to make a meaningless playoff run. I believe we would be the 8th seed as of the break. And teams like NJ and Ind are falling apart. I'm starting to think there's no way we miss the playoffs unless this team falls apart. And this team seems to keep getting better. So if we're going to make it anyway, we may as well shake things up. Wouldn't it be nice to knock out Boston in the first round? Especially after the way they tanked last year and it didn't work, then they traded the future to "win now" and we would knock them out in the first round! I would love it!

Thats why I think Ed will be a buyer, to a point, now. I don't think he will give away young players(Thad,Smith) or cap space but the Artest deal seems to make sense. Yes, Carney is young but expendible. It would be good to get rid of Green's contract and Utah's pick won't be that good anyway. Artest would add more toughness to the team. He could show Thad a few tricks on D. They appear similiar in body size and type, so it might really help Thad. And Artest could D-up KG in the first round, with Evans coming off the bench to just pound on guys. We could beat Boston with Artest!

I wouldn't mind adding Wilcox or Diogu either, but I wouldn't give up as much for those guys. Utah's pick and Green is about it.

Joe Doc, you're obsessed about this beating the celtics thing? You're even willing to bring in a certified nut case like Artest. You are a true Philly fan!

Craig, Why has Diogu struggled to get playing time wherever he's been? He hasn't even gotten consistant minutes as a role player.

Still don!t think trade works for Sac.,but wouldn!t mind being buyer for right piece,Turiaf,Azuibuike,Balkman,Calderon,J.Boone,C.J.Miles,T.Thomas; allyoung guys that fill a need.Don!t want to mortgage future for Artest,Oneal,D.Gooden,etc., guys that may either break down or barely provide an upgrade.

http://reclinergm.wordpress.com/2008/02/16/sixers-all-star-weekend-or-lack-thereof/

I would love to have Artest but not on this team. If we were competing to get to the finals I would love that trade. But, for now just let the young guys keep developing and make big moves in the summer.

Diogu has had minutes to show something at G.St. and Ind., seems more he plays, more flaws you see. Actually think his teammate, the other Sh.Williams is a better fit for what we are doing here. Listed at 6!9", he could be an athletic 4, something we need.

Thanks Suede really missed your shot gun approach to trade suggestions......... Don't break a leg.........

Hawks got Bibby.Tells me we could have cleared cap space for A.Miller. E.S. said more cap space not an issue, think this proves it.Artest is probably next to go. Still don!t want him.

Suede, I guess you're not a true sixers fan.. See Joe Doc's posting above.

sfw- I just think that would be so great! They purposely tanked last year trying to get the #1 pick and that back fired. Then they traded away their future(young guys worth anything and picks) to win now, and then they would be knocked out in the first round. Thats just poetic justice! AND I WOULD LMAO!

Suede- I agree that Sac could probably do a deal that works better for them for Artest but if they we're willing to do the deal, I would. I wouldn't consider that mortgaging the future. I don't want O'Neal(injuries) or Gooden(just don't think he's that good) either. But I love Calderon and Turiaf. Doubt LA gives up Turiaf with their injury problems, but I would give Toronto anybody they wanted other than Iggy, Thad, and Smith for Calderon. (Say Sammy and Lou Will for Calderon and Nesterovic.) I think Calderon would be the perfect fit for this team and a great replacement for Miller. And I wouldn't mind having Tyrus Thomas or Azuibuike either. Doubt any of it happens, but it can't hurt to wish.

sfw,
Diogu plays on those run and gun style teams, GS and Indy. Those two teams are not going to win because they have no balance. If you stop their shooting, they have no post game, which Diogu could have helped them with. Coaches that teach one style do not win. The winners have balance. Phoenix just got the hint and got themselves an inside presence. You see it when teams stop us from running, we can't do anything. Look, he's not the savior, but I know he can be a guy we can be comfortable with when we need to go inside. I cannot think of another player as skilled as him in the post that we can get so cheap.

Suede, I'm curious as to the flaws you are talking about in regards to Diogu?

Hawks gave up nothing.All these trades affect us. Lakers, minutes for Turiaf?; Memphis, cap room for J.Smith; Atlanta, possible eastern final visit, but no cap room to sign J.Smith. I would go to Dallas and offer A.Miller for Harris, expiring contract, and 2 #1!s.Take it or leave it!!! If not,wait till summer. J.Doc, I could see a sign and trade of Calderon over the summer to a team with cap room[Sixers]. What we draft will tell all,but E.S. can!t give up Sammy yet unless its Bargnani, Calderon, plus. [Sammy,L.Will.?]Just my opinion.

I just saw that Bibby trade. If that trade is true, its all about cap space for Sac. 3 of the 4 have expiring contracts and Shelden Williams doesn't cost that much. I can't believe Sac didn't get a first round pick in the deal. I know Atl's pick this year already belongs to Pho, but I guess Sac is just happy for the cap space.

Makes me question the Artest trade rumored earlier. Green has 3 more years left on his contract. That doesn't exactly fit what they just did in the Bibby deal.

Joe - You're taking my statement out of context. ReclinerGM is on the same page with me:

If the guys we have make a run on their own, that could be a very good thing for them. Im fine with the core we have going as far as they can if they do find themselves in it.

As a matter of fact, If we pick up someone who we see as a long term contributer and make a run with him, that's great too. But I don't want a rental type guy taking time away from guys we're trying to develop, then creating a vacuum when he leaves.

Craig, he seems to get in foul trouble alot. Love Tthe way he rebounds, but I !ve seen him maybe 10 times and never saw him post up.Thad has shown me in a few minutes some nice post up moves and Evans can rebound, if Diogu was 6!10" I would take a chance, but he is another 6!8" p.f., we have 2 already.

by the way, Morty, it was someone im sure we all know. I'll give you a hint, he wore that number when he played here in a different sport.

Maybe Artest will be happy without Bibby.

The teams who have salary cap advantages seems to be changing(Memphis, SAC,???). Does this help or hinder the sixers?

KM,

TO ?????

ATL just added $11.2m to their cap number for next year. Not sure what they are thinking, but unless they clear some more space, I guess they may be willing to let J Smith or Childress walk. They'll only have about $6m to sign Smith and Childress.

Guys, I told you before that the Kings have decided to blow things up. Now that Bibby has been traded for expiring contracts and PF Sheldon Williams, I look for them to deal Artest for more cap space, another prospect and picks.

Well guess what, Stephen A. Smith just said recently on his radio show that Stefanski and the 76ers are the leader for Artest right now, offering Carney, Green, Ollie and a 2009 no. 1 pick. Quite a coincidence, hugh?

I believe Artest will be a 76er after the trade deadline and Stefanski can continue to make this team into one that can compete with the big boys.

Also, another interesting tidbit to think about. With Mike Bibby making $14.5M next year and Joe Johnson making $14.3M next year, would the Hawks match a deal for Josh Smith starting at about $15M this summer? Just saying.

Your 76ers starting five: Dalembert, Thad, Artest, Iggy, A. Miller. I think Boston and Detroit just raised an eyebrow or two.

Your thoughts?

Joe Doc, Green's contract isn't that much as is Carney's. Also, Ollie's deal is an expiring one, but the main thing is that they get a no. 1 pick for Artest, something that they didn't get in the Bibby deal.

I think the 76ers are one of the few teams out there that will give up a no. 1 pick and expiring contracts for Artest at this point.

It makes a lot of sense to me, for the King and the 76ers. The only thing for the Kings is that they still have cap killing contracts such as Abdur-Rahim, Tim Thomas and Brad Miller.

So even after moving Artest and Bibby, they still have a lot of work to do.

at this point, you do not make a trade just to make trade, you make a deal to ADD to what you have. you try to make a deal for a player who has top tier talent(artest), and you try get it for as less as you can(green, utah #1, whatever). anyone who is not on that talent level is not worth mentioning as a solution to help the 6ers.

KM- I understood what you were saying. Its better to get the young kids minutes. I just don't see who Artest would be stealing minutes from? Artest would play PF, Thad SF, and Iggy SG. Thad and Iggy are going to be playing those positions next year anyway, so they may as well get used to it now. Green would be gone so there would be the void at starting SG(not that Green should have been starting at SG) so its not like we would be moving a starter to the bench to make room for Artest. And the kids like Lou Will and Ja. Smith stay in the positions they'll be in next year, gaining experience and confidence. Plus I think Artest could teach Thad a little, adding to his growth for next year.

That is the only deal I would do for a "rent-a-player". And I'm with you about possibly dealing for long term help. Thats why I love Calderon so much.

datruth- I'm not saying Green's contract would be a deal breaker. I was just pointing out the fact it is 3 more years and they seem to want expiring contracts. And at $3 million it's just a drop in the bucket. Plus like you said, the future first round pick would make it worth it.

Suede, that's my point, exactly. They have not been using him the way they should. Below is a clip of what he could do. I posted this a while back. So if you've seen it, I apologize.

You'll notice that he abused the Wallace boys in Detroit, Marcus Camby a couple of times as well as some others.

Warning, it's 8 min long, but you'll see plenty of post moves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3MyU_NCyu0&feature=related

Oh, and turn down the volume. Some might not like the music.

A few people on the philly.com boards said Stephen A. Smith said the same thing about Artest to Philly on ESPN TV last night. So, the talk is legit and is officially out there now.

Whether or not something gets done remains to be seen. Maybe Ed will shoot it down or not. We'll see. Also, I meant to say Kenny Thomas instead of Tim Thomas.

I do know that adding Kenny Thomas to any deal for Artest would be a deal breaker. KT, Abdur-Rahim and Miller are all on the books for more money than any of the 3 are worth.

Talk about tormented! (And not you beantown!)
Part of me wants to see the Sixers get Artest, just to see what happens. And make the playoffs.
But then I see 23-30! And I want to see Ed trade Miller, Dalembert, and anybody else other than Iggy and Thad. I want to see the rebuilding start now. Go get Calderon or Josh Smith now, instead of waiting. Get as many pieces playing together as soon as possible.
Ah, decisions!

Treat Artest like he's fully ablaze and don't even think about touching him. And I'd be fine if the Sixers made no moves at the trade deadline. Keep building through the draft and developing the current players, try to add an impact player through free agency or a rational trade, and consider signing Andre Miller to an extension. I'm with Marc on that one. I don't think this team is far away from contention in the East.

May not be far from contending in the East. But how close are they to contending with the top teams in the West? What's the point if you can't contend for a championship?

Joe Doc, the rebuilding has started! Why take steps back now? You'd just undo some of the work that started last year when we got rid of Iverson and Webber. The young guys have been playing ever since. They are getting better. We have to give it time. Now you want to trade everyone accept two guys? Any new guys you want to bring in, still have to play well together and that, too, will take time. I don't get us fans sometimes. These guys are growing! Let it happen. We have to ADD pieces.

No steps back!

Joe Doc - I hear ya, but I think they're three or four years from contending with the big boys in the West, unless a bold, risky move pays off huge. I just don't see Stefanski as being that type of guy (admit I could be wrong, though).

I'd rather see them build steadily and have a window of opportunity for many years. To me, Artest doesn't get them a whole lot closer. I think Thad may be a better player than him in two years. Let Thad develop, and build around him and Iggy, and maybe a high draft pick this year and whatever you can get for Green/Carney/Ollie. Plus, I like Miller's steady hand for the next couple of years. I'd just rather avoid Artest. Too much of a wacko for me, and not a superstar.

WOW! Just watched Jamont Gordon block 2 shots on the last possesion for a miss st win. He's an excellent college basketball player. 6'4", 240 lb combo guard. Handles & passes real well. Don't know how his game will translate to the NBA but he is projected as a mid-late first round pick right now.

I guess we can project what value A. Miller has. Can't believe they unloaded Bibby for only S. Williams & Cap relief plus 2nd rd pick.

Who has better value Bibby or A. Miller?

Andre Miller has more trade value at this point than Bibby. Bibby's health had to be an issue with some teams, and his numbers have steadily decreased over the last couple of years (FG%, assts). In fact, he hasn't shot over 40% from the field since the '05-'06 season. I think it's an accepted belief among many GMs that Bibby's best years are behind him. Miller, on the other hand, is kind of seen as an fine wine - he gets better with age. His game doesn't rely on athleticism or shooting; he's clearly seen as more of a crafty PG whose experiences over the years have allowed him to develop into the player that is currently having his best season ever.