Deep Sixer

Bring on Chris Wilcox and Mike Bibby.

After watching Kevin Love last night with my brother suede, we figure he'd be the perfect complement at the power forward for the sixers. He's a man among boys in the college game and it appears he isn't even in top condition. If he enters the draft and is measured legitimate 6ft10in in NBA sneakers, he will be a top ten possibly top 5 pick even though he's not the most athletic player. He is a fantastic post up player who will command a double team and make the proper decision to make the right pass if necessary.

Who are we getting rid of and why do we want Bibby?

Lets Talk Trade

Andre Miller to Sacramento Kings
Salary: $9,600,000 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 16.3 REB: 3.9 AST: 6.3 PER: 17.22
-----------------------------------------------
Kevin Ollie
Salary: $3,441,900 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 1.3 REB: 0.7 AST: 1.3 PER: 6.67

Calvin Booth
Salary: $1,103,225 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 0.8 REB: 1.3 AST: 0.3 PER: 6.12

Willie Green
Salary: $3,094,000 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 12.9 REB: 2.5 AST: 1.9 PER: 12.34
All three to Seattle SuperSonics
----------------------------------------------- The Sixers Get

Mike Bibby
Salary: $13,500,000 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 13.0 REB: 4.0 AST: 5.1 PER: 12.89

Chris Wilcox
Salary: $6,500,000 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 12.9 REB: 7.2 AST: 1.0 PER: 17.33

Starting Five:
----------------
Samuel Dalembert
Chris Wilcox
Thaddeus Young
Andre Iguodala
Mike Bibby

Zoe, why does seatle want those guys? Why give up Wilcox fo Willie Green +?

I don't want Bibby, but would gladly trade Ollie and Green for Wilcox. I don't see that happening, however.
/Morty
Morty and Moishe Recommend...

Ollie's 3 million contract expires this year, Seattle needs a shooting guard.

We have to get more than that back. Miller is playing much better than Bibby, has missed only three games his entire career, and is cheaper. So I'm not sure why we want Bibby. Calvin Booth has a player's option for next year which I'm sure he's going to exercise. Plus I like Collison a little better than Wilcox.

A.Miller to Seattle for E.Watson and N.Collison works for both teams. Seattle gets out from under to long contracts [3yrs. and 4yrs. ] to speed up their rebuilding process and A.Miller can either be a teacher for D.Rose if Seattle drafts him, or start at point if SEATTLE drafts big. E.Watson is a tough defender who could start or play behind L.Williams depending on if L.Williams is ready.Not sure if Collison is a good enough post player, seems he likes the midrange game.But he hustles and bangs the boards and a tandem of him,Reggie, and Jason is not bad.

Sixers want flexibility(expiring contracts) not contracts.

Collison has solid post moves and he rebounds very well. Nice size for a PF 6'10" 255. I would not take Watson's contract, though. No need to take slop just to trade Miller. He's an asset.

Craig, if we are going to start a point guard that is very weak defensively, L.Williams, than we are going to have a defensive p.g. off the bench. Watson is one of the best on the ball defenders in the league.

What I'm saying is not taking Watson at all. Why not keep Miller for a better deal? Watson plays "D", but not good enough to take that contract. Unless Seattle's throwing in some picks, I don't think there should even be a discussion

Seattle has Pheonix!s pick, they definitely are not giving up their pick. As for flexibility, S.F.W., E.S. seems happy with what they have. It seems the cap room will be used more for trades than free agents.

I don't like any of those trades. You want mostly expiring contracts back for Andre Miller and maybe a young talent thrown in. Earl Watson is 28 yrs old and, while a good defensive PG, has never run a winning team. In fact, I think he couldn't even get on the court in Memphis when they signed him 2 years back.

I'd rather keep Miller than do any of those deals.

Why would Sacramento do that deal? The guy the Sixers have to push for is Josh Smith. They have to make a push for this kid. He is really talented and with some good coaching will be a perennial all-star. He is restricted next year but he will demand a big contract. Now that they have Horford, they won't be able to pay both of them in a few years. Horford looks like the real deal and they can save about 10Mil at the PF spot over the next 2 years, so I think they would be willing to move him instead of letting him go for nothing. I think I saw this trade on here a few weeks back, but I am not sure. This is the trade they need to pursue:

Phi gets:

Josh Smith
Zaza Pachulia
Speedy Claxton

Atl gets:

Dalembert
Ollie

Sixers must tank the rest of this season - must look to get Derrick Rose to make this all work. All they would have to do is deal Miller for an expiring contract and re-sign Smith and bring in a shooter to spread the floor.

Next year's lineup:

Rose
Iguodala
Young
Smith
Pachulia

Lou Williams is the 6th man of the year.

Craig,

I kept thinking about what you brought up in that one post – why is it that the Spurs win with only 3 good players? Well, I have a statistics-based answer for you, not that you asked, but FYI…

There’s this book called “The Wages of Wins”, and it’s sort of like the “Moneyball” for basketball. Moneyball’s main stat was ops, Wages’ main stat is “Wins Produced Per 48 Minutes,” or wp48 for short. I haven’t read the book (but I will), but one of the authors writes a blog and I’m pulling everything from there. Also, all his conclusions come from looking at what the wp48 told him, so the assumption here is that wp48 is a good measure of how good a player is.

After much research, the authors discovered that 80% of a team’s wins come from 20% of the players – 20% of 15 players is 3 players. So even though the Sixers have greater depth than the Spurs, the Spurs will win more games because their top 3 is better than the Sixers’ top 3:

(wp48 through the first 41 games)

SPURS
Duncan .322
Ginobilli .310
Oberto .209 (yes, it’s not Tony Parker…)

SIXERS
Sammy .207
Iggy .165
Miller .126

I got those numbers from:

http://www.wagesofwins.com/AllPlayersMid0708.html

One caveat: there are some things wp48 doesn’t account for, like how good a one-on-one or team defender a player is, and other stuff.

Craig,

More interesting stuff about those Wages of Wins findings and the Sixers:

http://www.wagesofwins.com/AllPlayersMid0708.html

Our best lineup would be: Sammy / Iggy / Miller / Evans / Lou. This is supported by 82games.com – that lineup has outscored the other team by +20 points, making it our 2nd best lineup behind the inexplicably good +33 of the Miller / Green / Iggy / Smith / Sammy lineup.

Sammy really has been our MVP. He’s 30th in the league in “Wins Produced”, and is the player that needs to be on the court most for us. He makes a lot less money than a lot of people below him on that list.

Carney and Jason Smith are our worst players. Reggie Evans is our 4th best player and should be on the floor as much as possible. Rebounding counts a lot towards producing a win.

You suggested getting Mike Miller in the previous post; if we did get him, he’d suddenly be our best player.

LouWill played great in the last game, so I wondered if that would be reflected in his wp48 score. Using a simplified (but accurate) version of the wp48 formula, I got a wp48 of .404, which is fantastic! If he played like that every night, he’d be the 3rd best player in the NBA, behind only Dwight Howard and Marcus Camby, and just slightly ahead of Andrew Bynum and Kevin Garnett. He’d be the best point guard in the league!

Seriously, think about it - does anything about the way he played in Orlando make you think he can’t replicate that performance on a regular basis? There were no highlight reel stuff, just great, smart, fundamental basketball!

It seems E.S. is waiting till draft night to start the ball rolling.As soon as we make our first pick,and fill a certain need [ p.f., p.g., or scorer] than he can use A.Miller to fill one of the others. M. Miller would be a good option if we don!t get Gordon or Mayo in the draft. We have 3 major needs , I hope the draft pick fills one . No playoffs, please!!!!!

The problem with starting Lou Williams at the PG is that his penetration defense is not very good. He needs to improve his lateral quickness on the defensive side of the ball; if he doesn't, then we're faced with the same problem that lies in Andre Miller's current defense.

Do I think Lou could be the PG of the future - I don't know yet. Haven't seen enough, and quite frankly, he should still be a junior in college. He needs to show greater consistentcy, which comes naturally with maturity. Do I think he can be a stellar combo guard for the next umpteen years in this league? Absolutely. Is there an issue with getting a defensive, past first PG (in the mold of Eric Snow) for a reasonable price who starts with Iggy in the backcourt, AND Sweet Lou gets at least 30 mpg combined at both the 1 and 2 spots? I have no problem with that - and who knows, maybe Lou eventually takes the starting PG role anyway.

No, the PG position is not what we need to address in the draft. The SG position needs to be the top priority. Again, there are 2, maybe 3, studs in the draft that can be the Sixers' starting 2 guard for the next 10 years. They are: Eric Gordon (Indiana), OJ Mayo (Southern Cal), Chase Budinger (Arizona) in that order.

Suede (re: your 8:01 post) - that's what i've been saying the whole time. The advantage to waiting until the draft before making a miller deal is it leaves you much more flexibility. It means you can draft almost anyone who doesn't play small forward or center, and then use miller to make a deal for whatever need you didnt address in the draft. There are lots of options good options in this class and it seems foolish to lock yourself into one path ahead of time. Plus if you still have miller in you back pocket come draft day and the lottery gods have been unkind, you can try to package him to move up.

sixerzguy:

I wonder myself what the results would be if they stuck Lou at the point exclusively and told him to run the team.

He has a good assist to turnover ratio, and excellent drive and dish abilities using his quickness. Mo asks him to do many different things, and if they placed him exclusively at point I wonder how he would do.

If AI plays the 2, then you have effectively paired Lou with a big defense oriented back court mate. What do people think about that?
/Morty

KM:

Plus, after the season, Miller is a true expiring contract.
/morty

sixerzguy, maybe we got our signals crossed. I did post something about the Spurs, but it was just in response to someone else asking/doubting if any of the 76ers could start for San Antonio, to which I said "of course". I mentioned Sam, Dala, and also said that Green's numbers pushed those of Michael Finley's. I'm on board whole-heartedly with the three headed attack. Pat Riley said that years ago and I've never forgotten it. I hope I did not mislead you on that one. I'm not sure I've even thought to compare the depth of the two teams.

Here are a few of my thoughts concerning some of our current players:

I think Lou Williams' would be excellent in a Barbosa or Monta Ellis type role as a scoring threat off the bench, but I think we should count on other options at the point.

I like the way Andre Miller has been playing, and I think waiting until closer to the draft is the best thing to do. I wouldn't even mind having him around next year. I don't think there is any rush to get him out of here. With another year of experience and an added piece or two over the summer, this team should be able to get into the playoffs next year then build on that to become major contenders the year after that.

I think Thaddeus reminds me at times of a Shawn Marion type player. Just a great athlete and hustle player who does a lot of the little things and has a knack for getting open and finishing around the basket. I like having him on our squad.

Sammy Dalembert has been playing well lately, he has really grown into a solid player. I like that he has been hitting some mid-range shots lately, and he could definitely be our starting center and a great complement to a big PF on a playoff team.

From here I would like to see a starting PG with solid D and the ability to create opportunities in the half-court. And, of course, a PF who is a scoring threat on the block. I don't think there is any hurry to acquire these players at the moment, but this off-season I think we are in a position to add a significant piece or two.

I like our foundation of Williams, Iguodala, Young and Dalembert, and we have some other solid players off the bench who can contribute (such as Green and Smith). In a year or two we could have a very athletic team that can defend and get out on the fast break to score points in bunches with one or two solid moves.

I don't know why this hasn't been addressed by those who want to keep Andre Miller around until his deal expires. Please tell me what benefit the team will derive from holding Miller through next season? Maybe I'm missing something here, but having Miller for another 1 1/2 years only keeps the status quo in place and does not allow different options (like Lou or someone else) develop at the PG position. If you keep Andre around, how do you develop the PG of the future? Plus, if he stays, and the Sixers improve, what do you do after that? Do you sign a 34 yr old PG to another long-term deal? There's no way that happens, so the rest of the team is left holding the bag at the end of next season, having to adapt to a new floor leader.

Think of it this way - are the Sixers really going to do anything this year? It's the same predicament as last year everyone. We'll finish 3 or 4 games out of the playoffs and end up with the 9th or 10th pick in the draft. Long-term, this makes absolutely zero sense. Having Andre finish the year here does the following:

1) We get a worse spot in the draft.
2) Lou Williams does not get valuable minutes to see if he can handle the PG spot full-time.

What good do you see keeping him here? A possible trade in the off-season? Maybe, but I'd rather have the cap space for maximum trade flexibility. Also, trading Miller now allows you to be a major player, MAJOR, in the Josh Smith / Elton Brand sweepstakes. Finally, each day you hold onto Andre Miller, Andre Miller gets older and older.

Just my thoughts - please tell me why yours differ.

Dean - First of all, I dont think anyone is advocating keeping Miller around til his deal expires. As several of us have said, his best value will be over the summer or during next season as a True expiring contract. Plus if you move him before draft day this year, you seriously curtail your options. So having said that,

1. I disagree that moving him this year changes your draft status much. You may loose a few more games than otherwise, but there's a chance that a younger lineup will go on a run like they did last year. Remember, we're competing agains other teams that will be actively trying to tank(ie. not giving full effort on the court), and our guys wont be. Even if you do loose a few more games, there's no garuantee that means anything in terms of where you pick.

2. I think we'll see more lou at point anyway in the second half.

3. there is no elton brand sweepstakes - he's not going anywhere. Josh smith would be a nice pickup, but he's not the post up player that we really need. Nor is he the scoring gaurd or point gaurd we really need. and he would mean we have no room to make other moves.

Finally, for the sake of argument, If you do keep miller till the end of the next year, you now have 10million in cap space. By then, you could have several things happen - A. Lou is ready to take over. B. The point gaurd we draft this year is ready to take over. C. You sign a free agent point gaurd. D. You make a trade for a point gaurd. Its not the worst thing...because presumably by then you've already addressed your other major needs through the draft and trades this offseason.

Could it now be considered a mistake buying out Webber? I understand his contract comes off the books at year's end, but wouldn't it have been better to have him here and be able to trade him and his huge contract right now if we are going after a max player? Seems like we are all of sudden limited while still paying off Webber's contract.

Am I wrong in this? Can we conceivably trade off his contract? I assume no because we don't have his rights any longer.

Dean, mine differ because his age doesn't bother me as much as you. He's played the same style of ball his entire career and only missed 3 games. How old is Brand? How many games has he, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Josh Smith or any other player you can name, missed? As far as getting the 9th or 10th pick, I don't see that as too bad a thing. Thad has turned out good so far. There is no guarantee that the guys you want them to draft are going to make it on this level. You have on your roster a player...right now...one of the better players at his position and you're in a hurry to trade him for cap space and a chance at a guy who's not opting out. PG is soooo important to a team. They're just not falling off of trees. Lou Williams is playing 20+ minutes in a game. Say half of that is at PG. Are you telling me you can't see if he's going to be a good PG or not?

The guys on your roster are the ones you have to worry about losing as far as the psyche is concerned. Just look at the perpetual losers in this league. Nobody wants to be there. I don't even consider NJ a loser, but they've fallen so far, they are really having trouble coming out of it. Losing really hurts a team and no one wants to be around losing. Certainly not your favorite, Brand (I don't think he's opting out!), or any other prized free agent that wants to win. Winning breeds winning. You try to win as much as possible and add help to get you over the hump. You add the right pieces, and you have your winner. This team gets complimented all the time about their attitude. We just need a couple more pieces. Add TO it. Don't subtract FROM it.

Trading Miller now only adds another question mark to a team that already has question marks. This bunch hustles and you can't tell them that they are not going to win that next game. They don't know any other way to think, thanks to the coach. You can get that talent with the currnt situation. Brand is not the only good player out there, so you don't have to give up $20 MILLION dollars for them. And you don't have to rearrange the entire roster either.

I'm for holding Miller because I dont want them spending his $ like a drunken sailor this offseason. You generally need a cornerstone player to win a championship in this league (Pistons were the exception). Sixers have solid pieces (Iggy, Sammy, Thad, Lou), but are missing their cornerstone. No one on the market even remotely qualifies as that type of player, so why spend the money now? Just to say they did something? I'd rather them focus on improving the young guys, and the draft. Unless a deal thats too good to be true comes along, save the money for a better crop of FAs.

KM - The main reasons the Sixers went on that run last year was because of guys like Miller, Korver, and Iguodala. I think the value of what Andre Miller brings to the table here is being severely undervalued. He made those guys A TEAM last year for the first time in many of their careers. He is the QB of this team - it's basically the same as cutting the head off of an experienced business person (to go to the extreme). Without the head (which holds all of the experiences and lessons learned), the person doesn't function so well. Same thing here - Lou Williams has no chance of playing as effectively as Miller over a long stretch of games. He's still learning the craft; Miller has mastered it. Therefore, a team without Miller and Korver is much different than last year's team, and in my opinion, would have little to no chance of making a +.500 run the rest of the way.

With regard to Elton Brand...he is clearly in play from both a trade and free agent perspective. Look at the Clippers' obligations over the next few seasons. Chris Kaman at $8+, Cutino Mobely at $8+, Corey Magettte at $7+, Tim Thomas at $5.5+. They have to make a decision on Shaun Livingston in the off-season and also Al Thornton in 2 years. There's no way Donald Sterling is going to re-sign a 30-yr old PF to a max long-term deal, especially when Kaman has developed into a nice low-post threat for them. If the Clips were close to a championship, maybe - but they're one of the worst teams in the league this year. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Elton Brand is not going to catapult that team to the upper echelon in the West by himself.

Except for a handful players in this league, everyone is always in play for the right price. By the facts stated above, it's hard to believe that it would take a massive deal to pry away Brand from the Clips; even better, if you offer Brand $75M over 5 yrs, Sterling is not going to match, no matter what he says publicly. Look at his history - no way.

Dean. from what you are sayign above, that would give the Sixers a lineup of Sammy, Brand, Iggy, Green and Lou. How are they better? Even if they draft a 2 guard, who runs the offense? As you've already said, it could take years for ou to master the position, by then Brand will be on the decline. Plus, between Sam's existing contract, and Iggy's new one, adding Brands to the obligations would limit flexibility and they'd still be missing a franchise type player.

Dean, sounds like you're making an argument for keeping Miller. You're confusing me, my man. That's not hard to do, granted, but sheesh...

Answer me this. Is there any fiber in your being that says it could be a good idea to keep Miller? Say Smith or Young turn out to be that stud PF in the next year or so. What tells you that Miller can't lead them, history in general or Miller's history?

Plus, if Sterling is not going to sign Brand to a new deal, why should we?

I agree about the players who lead the charge last year, Dean, though i would add Joe Smith to that list. But here's the thing - Miller's assists have gone down and his contribution lately is more scoring than generalship. If he goes Lou williams definitely replaces that lost scoring, Ollie is the steadying hand(and plays better D), Thad is replacing a lot of Korver's offense (its not coming from three's but the numbers are getting similar), Dalembert has slowly but surely been improving, as has young Dre. And i know you dont like JSmith, but he's been coming on again lately as well. Plus, our younger lineups have consistently outplayed the older ones this year. Anyway, its not a dead prediction im making, im just saying it could go either way - ESPECIALLY against older teams where the players will be mailing it in. Say what you want about our guys, but they play hard.

You may be able to blow brand out of the water with a massive contract, but I dont think thats in our long term interest - it basically kills any flexibility for a good while. If we come through this draft and have addressed most other needs already, then talk to me about moving miller for brand. It will still be an option then, and it keeps our other options open for now.

I'll repeat what I've said in many posts before this...I don't think you need a franchise PG akin to Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, etc. to take this team to a contender. If you look at many champions of the past, the PG position has clearly not been the strongest on the floor. The Bulls won 6 championships with BJ Armstrong and John Paxson. The Celtics won with Dennis Johnson. Houston won 2 championships with Kenny Smith and Sam Cassell. The Lakers won 3 with Derek Fischer. Avery Johnson won 2 with the Spurs. Tony Parker won 2 with the Spurs.

My point? I want a defensive-minded, pass first PG; you don't need an all-star PG to win in this league. Of the guys listed above, not one was a lottery pick. PGs are found and developed in this league; they usually don't possess some remarkable athletic skill like the top scorers in the game. Who is that person - I couldn't tell you right now. That's for the scouts to figure out. But, if you get me Elton Brand and either Eric Gordon / OJ Mayo from the draft, the Sixers' lineup would be light years ahead of what's currently on the floor, no matter the inexperience of the PG. And remember, the PG will only get better with experience; another reason that keeping Miller will impede this team's growth in the future.

Additionally, there's no reason to think that Brand will need to be at the peak of his career 3 or 4 years down the road, especially with two other viable #1 scoring options on the team. As long as he can still give you 15 and 10 (and there's no reason to suspect that he couldn't) during the last 2 years of his deal, that's more than enough. If the Sixers need him to be the #1 option on this team, they'll never win. The Sixers need Elton Brand to be the post-up option, rebounding machine down low to complement Sam, Iguodala, and hopefully the stud 2-guard we'll get in the draft. Very Spurs-esque in the team makeup.

Based on the last few rounds of in-season trade disasters (Exception to the Korver trade), I'm in no rush to move Andre Miller. Are we still projecting Lou Williams as the Heir-apparent for the PG position, I saw him as more of a SG anymore. I'm more in favor of drafting the PG of the future this offseason than redeveloping Lou.

Besides, if there's demand for PG's in the league, why not demand high value in return rather than trading him for an expiring contract???

Craig - I like Andre Miller's game on the offensive end, but he's TERRIBLE on defense. This is not through any fault of his own...he's just ridiculously slow and has no lateral movement. How are you ever going to win when you can't stop the other team's point of attack? And, he's just getting older, not younger...so no, I see no scenario in which I would keep him.

Dean:

I understand your point about losing games. However, Miller is our best trade able asset, and we should not trade him just to trade him. We need the best possible value we can get. That has to compare to a draft pick, no?

Now, Stefanksi seems to believe the same thing. He also seems to believe that we can compete for a Josh Smith or Brand type player without more cap room than we already have. The cap room we acquired by trading your beloved Korver - someone who was also holding back the young guys, and helping us win more games than not.
/Morty

Let me be clear here Morty - I never loved Kyle Korver. He's limited defensively and commits terrible fouls. But, he possesses an asset in this league that is coveted by many teams: a deadeye shooter. So why give him away? It's the same argument that many of you are making with Andre Miller? Both Stefanski and King said that other teams were calling more about Korver than Miller - and he GAVE HIM AWAY.

You can't have it both ways Morty. You can't give away Korver, but try to max out return player value in a Miller trade, especially when there is another PG on the market that is light years ahead of him (J. Kidd). So, clear the cap space, lose the games, and start building for the future this off-season with maximum $$ under the cap that provides the maximum amount of flexibility via trades, the draft, and free agency.

BTW, you're proposing to give Brand - Dwight Howard kind of money two years from now?

Thabo Sefalosha could be that defensive minded PG. He's been in the league for a minute and he's a defensive stopper that can handle the ball. He played point in Sweden. You trade players and picks to ge him and Ben Gordon right now.

Dean,

You have to understand that the situation is different since we traded Korver. We are now in a better position to make a play at free agents this summer (even if they aren't blue chip players) or to devote that money to new deals for Williams and/or Iguodala. We don't NEED to move Miller right away. We can afford to wait it out and see how the demand for him changes. I think cap space, a first round pick and clearing some of the logjam at the wing positions was about as much as you could ask for Korver. With Miller, however, there is less demand for PT at point on this team. Williams can still get his while Miller is here.

Also, if we did have a huge amount of cap room this summer after moving Miller without a strong idea of our course of action, there would be significant pressure to sign Free Agents this summer. If there isn't the right player for the right contract out there, what good is that cap space? We don't want to be put in a situation where management feels they need to take action for the course of action. That leads to big contracts for undeserving players.

Dean:
How did Stefankski "give away" Korver? The way I see it, he traded a one dimensional player with limited value for our team to obtain 10 mil in cap space and a first round pick w/out giving up our even better asset in Miller.

In my mind that trade set the market for Miller higher than an expiring contract and a low first round pick. I base this opinion on Stefanski's public statements that he wants more for Miller than he got for Korver.

You do agree that Miller is a better all around player than Korver, no? One that adds quite a bit more to any team than a Korver type player?

Or maybe we just have a fundamental difference of opinion on the value of a expiring contract?
/Morty

Also:

Stefankski believes, and who am I to question him at this point, that we have enough cap room to make a major move for a superstar type player this summer.
/morty

Dean:

Last point. If you were the GM and were going to trade Korver, what would you consider equal value? Assuming Stefanksi was intent on trading Korver and not Miller, what would you have done in his shoes?
/morty

Craig, I propose giving Brand the $$ at the end of this season, but for a shorter length than Dwight Howard. Elton is a restricted free agent. Call the Clippers' bluff. Let's see if they match. This move (or any other BIG free agent acquisition for that matter) is only doable if Miller's $$ are moved off the books before the end of the year.

Morty, Korver's # is $4.3 M per season; the Sixers did not gain $10M in add'l cap space. They had $6M in cap space already available before the Korver trade. My point is that they didn't need to trade Korver; if they trade Andre Miller, the same end will have been achieved with regard to cap space. By trading Korver, they still haven't achieved that end and got nothing of value in return.

Dean, he is not a restricted free agent. His contract actually ends after next year. He has an option to opt out of his deal after this year. If he does, he's unrestricted. But like we all have said, why would he give up $15m to come here?

Morty - That's my whole point here. There was no reason to trade Korver instead of Miller. It didn't achieve anything other than to get $4 M from a cap space perspective, which still isn't enough to get a major playmaker in FA this offseason. Trading Miller without moving Korver gets you almost $10M in cap space, which gets you to that magical $15M figure. Korver accounted for 1/15th of the overall cap figure, while Miller accounts for almost 1/6th of it. It makes no sense from a cap management perspective. If Andre Miller was 26 years old and defensively effective, we're talking about a completely different scenario. But he's not. He's a 32 year old PG that is expensive, can't play a lick of D, and isn't going to be re-signed after next season.

Dean, keep in mind Brand has to exercise his Early Termination Option to become a free agent this summer. I think it's more likely that he will be a free agent NEXT summer. What would you do if Miller was traded this year, and Brand stays in his contract to '09? Sit on the cap space all season?

Craig - You're right on the restricted part - he has a player option clause. A mis-word on my part.

However, if you were Elton Brand, wouldn't you give up 1 yr guaranteed at $15M to get a new deal for 5 years and $75 M guaranteed, especially coming off an achilles injury? You'd be nuts not to do that.

Dean, that would mean he has a guarantee from the 76ers before he would opt out, which we know can't happen (Legally). AND, if I'm the 76ers, I don't sign him to that deal. If I'm Brand, of course I sign long term.

BK - Yes. I'd sit on the cap space until the 2009 free agent signing period or until an attractive trade was available.

It's a calculated risk worth taking in my opinion that relies on two factors.

1) Elton Brand will take $60M more $$ guranteed coming off an achilles injury.

2) Andre Miller is gone after the 2009 season anyway, so why does it matter if he's here next year? Might as well get your PG of the future valuable experience.

Craig - If you're the Sixers, who else is a proven low-post stud that you have a chance at getting in the 2 years? Why wouldn't you spend the $$ on him if he's medically cleared to play? The guy has averaged 20 and 10 for his entire career and has never been hurt before this season. Plus, you get Gordon or Mayo in the draft (can't be achieved without moving Miller NOW), you now have 3 legitimate 18-20 pt. scorers in Iggy, Brand, and the draft choice. That makes for a formidable team for years to come, especially with a defensive C like Sammy, who has the ability to average 10-12 ppg.

My thoughts are not that Elton Brand would not be a good player for the Sixers or about his injury concerns. I think he would be a damn good player for the Sixers and I do belive eventually he will be able to come back fully from the injury. However unless The Sixers give him an absolutely ridiculous amount of money then I don't see him opting out of his current contract that.

You're making way too many suppositions for me to get where you are. I don't know Brand's status or if he will come back to his pre-injury level. I actually doubt it because of the nature of the injury, but who knows? I don't know that Gordon or Mayo are 20 point scorers in this league. I can guess that maybe they are, but this is another level, and those two have leveled off lately in college. I think we are just going to have to disagree on this. We'll both have to wait and see how it goes.

Craig, you've summed it up for me also - there are just too many ifs in that scenario. If we loose more games by trading miller, if that equates to a higher draft pick, if those draft picks pan out in the big time, if brand opts out, if he's healthy, if that would be enough to put us over the top anyway... AND, If it turns out not to be enough to get us over the top, we're pretty much beat for other options.

Looking at the standings now, i just dont see how we're going to do any better than 4th worst, even if we barely win another game. We're not the only team eyeing this year's draft class, and tanking is a very imprecise science. Boston got away with it last year because Garnett made himself a gift to them - Glen Davis is a nice pick but he's not Oden. For that matter, we dont even know that because Oden isn't even Oden this year, is he?

If you can't get that stud PF this year, sign calderon with the cap space you have, then get cap space for miller, find a way to clear 5 more mil by the end of next year (willie, maybe?) and try again on next year's market. At that point, you've upgraded at point, upgraded in this year's draft(whoever that is, he'll be an upgrade), the young core is more mature and hopefully a lot better, and one big FA would be much more likely to put you over the hump.

The point is, there's more than one way of doing it...

Dean:

Firstly, you didn't answer my question: Since you do not feel we got it, what would you consider equal value for Korver?

Secondly, I've explained it many times, but I'll try one last time. Among other issues, trading Korver raises the market value for Miller, because now we have the ability to trade Miller for the best available deal, not the first thing we can get our hands on. We are now trading from a position of strength rather than weakness. Think of Miller as a draft pick we must get the most value out of.

If you do not think 10 mil in cap room is enough to "get a major playmaker in FA this offseason." you disagree with Stefanski. No offense, but I will side with Stefanski on this point.

Lastly, Korver's deal has three more years on it, so you save not just 4+ mil this coming year, but the next 2 as well. So we traded three years of financial commitment for less than one, and we got a first round pick as a sweetener.
/morty
p.s. shameless blog plug, but who can resist clicking on a link that is described as Homeless ET

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any comments on the "top story" on today's HoopsHype... Andre Miller for Hinrich.
Interesting proposal. An aging point guard who can't play defense for a young point guard who can't play defense. Kind of pointless and boring. Spice things up a bit:
Sixers deal:
Andre Miller
Carney
Jason Smith
No. 1 pick

Sixers get:
Hinrich
Thabo
Tyrus Thomas

That's what I'm talking about.

KM - If draft choices don't work out, then that's part of NBA scouting. If Eric Gordon or OJ Mayo doesn't pan out, it's just part of the risk of this business. What if Michael Jordan didn't pan out as the #3 pick and Sam Bowie became the greatest C ever to play the game? You have to have a long-term plan, especially if you're in a rebuilding mode. What are you going to accomplish by keeping Andre Miller and having him on the team next season? You'll have passed on TWO excellent PF free agent options and a great class of SGs in the draft. And furthermore, next year will more of the same.

To address your other point, Toronto is not going to give up Calderon. He'll be the most highly sought after FA PG on the market this season, AND they don't think they can rely on TJ Ford going forward because of his injury problems. Therefore, they'll probably invoke the Bird Rule and be able to max out a deal for him. Bryan Colangelo is not a stupid guy and understands how good Calderon is going to be going forward. If that happens, now you're left with the exact same team next season that you have ending this season and another rookie drafted from 9-12. That doesn't do anything for me re: improving the team's positioning.

Dean:

OK, I guess we'll move past what your conception of equal value for Korver is, and move onto the false choice you present of signing or trading for an "excellent PF" versus keeping Miller past the trading deadline.

Again, Stefanski has said that they have enough cap room to either sign, trade or sign and trade for that type of player. Please explain why you disagree with him.
/Morty

Morty - I don't know what equal value for Korver is. I haven't gauged the market for a top-flight shooter lately. Bottom line, they got nothing in return. 1/15t