Deep Sixer

Ok, the deadline is less than a week away now. So, where are the 6er insiders when we need them. Marc, are there any rumors that you are hearing?

With so many teams in panic mode, the offers should be a plenty for Miller and Dalembert. If somebody overpays, could you see both going?

It should be an interesting week in 6er land.

One thing I want to say about Lou Will is that I think it will be hard to truly evaluate his talent the rest of the year because of how teams defend us, namely the 2-3 zones. I think his game is rooted in the ability to create in space and use his quicks and handle to penetrate, but when teams pack it in he kind of gets negated because he doesn't have shooters to spread the floor. If he gets room out on the wing, throw Evans or Dalembert out there for a pick and roll and Lou Will looks fantastic. Unfortunately, he doesn't have the opportunity to do this consistently.

Lowry is OK! I wouldn't mind having on the team but I wouldn't give up much to get him. Maybe Ollie and Utah's pick, but thats about it.

if the 6ers can find consistency i don't think they will make trade unless it's a major deal favoring them.i get a sense that they are all starting to understand their roles on this team together.to get rid of any of the major players, igoudala, miller, l.will, sammy, you're taking a chance at losing what little chemistry you've created. the nets and hawks are sliding, the pacers and the bulls aren't coming back and the bucks don't have a chance. that gives the 6ers a window. if they don't blow it, this can be their moment. all they need is consistent effort individually as players and collectively as a team. once they get a taste of playoff intensity basketball you will then know what kind of players you really have.

I have to admit that I was one of the many fans who wished for us to lose as many games as possible after the Iverson trade in order for us to get a shot at Durant or Oden in the draft. And when the worst thing happened, the sixers winning enough games to earn a late lottery pick while also missing out of the playoffs I felt as if the curse of Harold Katz was still alive. But then the miracle of Thad Young happened. By the way, I wanted Al Thorton at the 12 spot. Drafting Thad Young was the best thing to happen to this franchise since we won game 1 against the lakers in the finals. If the draft was redone today and we had the 3rd pick, you bet your azz I would be rooting for us to pick Thad even over Horford. Big Al will be a solid pro but our boy Thad has the makings of a superstar, or as I told my buddy today a FUTURE DREAM TEAMER. Gotta love the cool aid baby!

If the 6ers want to keep Sweet Lou around for a while, please, please go out and acquire a tall 1/2 who can play alongside him and defend on the perimeter: Jarrett Jack, Charlie Bell, Kelenna Azubuike. Javaris Crittenton, Yakhouba Diawara and C.J. Miles are all unproven but with upside, and may be able to play alongside Sweet Lou. Diawara is a solid defender.

If Stef is going to keep Miller and Green as starters, I'd love to see Sweet Lou with/ Jack, Bell or Azubuike backing them up (and taking away Willie's minutes). Even if Iggy moves to the 2 I'd rather see Jack, Bell or Azubuike than Willie (we need a perimeter defender). Some team has to be willing to give a 2nd rounder for Willie. Then Thad can go to the 3 with Carney backing him.

If you haven't seen Rider's Jason Thompson (about a 50 minute ride from downtown Philly), the dude is going to make it to the NBA, might even be a late first rounder. Definitely a high second rounder. 6-10, 245, moves well, solid all around skills.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jason-Thompson-594/

Also, scouts are finally starting to notice St. Joe's Pat Calathes (they already LOVE hs brother Nick Calathes):
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Pat-Calathes-1373/

This is why you need second round picks. Guys like Thompson and Calathes can be sent to the D league for two years to develop. 6'10" players with all around skills don't grow on trees.

You're right Marc. The Sixers fall about $25K short in outgoing salaries in the Lowry for Williams deal. S, in order to rectify this situation:

Sixers Receive:

Kyle Lowry

Memphis Receives:

Lou Williams
Herb Hill

Most NBA GMs are not seeing Lou Williams as a potential PG. He's seen as a "instant offense" SG off the bench that can fill in at PG in a pinch. Furthermore, I think that Ed S. would want to bring in Lowry while Andre Miller is still here so that Kyle can learn as much as possible as the backup until Andre departs.

Just my opinion.

When trying to see if a player can contribute to a championship team, I try to look back to the past for a comparison.I want to make a case for L.Will. as a championship calibur pointguard. [6!2",175; career avgs.17 pts.,3 reb.,5.6 ass.,2 st.,46% f.g.,24% 3pt.,76% ft.] The name is Gus Williams, n.b.a. champ with Seattle.His backcourt mate was D.Johnson, a good ballhandler in his own right.[Iggy] EX.#2][6!1",180; career avgs. 19 pts.,4 reb.,9 ass.,2 st.,45%f.g.,29 3pt.,76 ft.] The name is Isai Yhomas, n.b.a. champ with Detroit. Backcourt mate was J.Dumars, a good ballhandler [Iggy]. Both played for good defensive teams that needed their pointguards to score. Sound familiar!!! N.Nixon was another. It can work. By the way, after watching E.Gordon about 5 times this year, he can handle pretty well. I have a vision of Thomas/Dumars thinking of a L.Will./ Gordon backcourt.Oh well, starting to dream; better get to bed.

At some point, we need to start solidifying our team and learning how to win. So I really don't understand why anyone would want to trade Andre Miller right now. Look at how valuable championship teams feel a veteran point guard is - no, we're not a championship team, but we want to be one, right? So why not hold on to Miller for the next 4-5 years, he's not that old, and he's been incredible for the Sixers.

I think we've been falling under the same trap as fantasy baseball gms do - loving the young prospects over productive vets. Sure, I'd love a top 3 pick, but hey, guess what, I was jumping for JOY when we got Thad last year - he was the guy I wanted over anyone else except Durant and Oden. Seriously - I mean, look what we got! A true athlete, with heart, with intelligence, with toughness, with defense and soon to develop offensive skills - at 19 y.o. So, we don't need the high high draft pick to score in the draft.

Instead, what we do need is to finally learn how to win, get experience in the playoffs, attract other winners to come here, and that's how it'll work. OTherwise, we risk becoming the next Atlanta Hawks, Memphis Grizzlies, etc - teams that got all the high draft picks but nothing to show for it.

Let's get some continuity here for once.

I understand Andre Miller has a lot of trade value, but wouldn't that value increase this summer? A top-notch, veteran PG with an expiring contract should attract young talent and draft picks. I would like to see Stefanski wait until the off-season before making trades. If Stefanski can sign a F/A (Josh Smith) and draft a solid player (Roy Hibbert), the Sixers will be on their way to the top of the East. Boston and Detroit will be in "re-build" mode in two years, by then, the Sixers nucleus should be developed. Patience and Salary Cap common sense are crucial to building a champion.

Unlike Boston, 3 year window, Detroit has replacements already in place.[ Dumars is some g.m. ] Maxiel, A.J.ohnson,A.Afflalo and R.Stuckey may be 4 future starters, [ not sure about Afflalo ].The trade of Mohammed even opened up some future cap room. But I do agree, Case, our time will be around 2010, when Thad is a wise old 21, L.Will.is 23, and Iggy our leader at 26. Good times are coming!!

Assuming that Andre Miller doesn't get traded I think that the Sixers should focus on adding a low post scorer as opposed to an outside shooter for these reasons.

An outside shooter gives you just that. Maybe more points, some ball handling skills and the ability to spread the floor. But a low post scorer gives the team more points as well as the likely hood of double teams and the ability to put opposing big men in foul trouble.

In any kind of trade to bring in an outside shooter or an inside scorer, with all things being equal (salaries, scoring averages, age, injury history, etc.) I would lean toward the low post scorer for a young team like this. And based on the decision to unload Korver and keep Miller I believe that we will see that this is the direction that the organization is going in. I guess we'll see in time.

Trading Miller is counter-productive, in my eyes. He could lead this team for a few more years (What eveidence do you have to the contrary?). We have a chance for the playoffs THIS year. This offseason, we have a chance add significant pieces and be even better next year. Subtracting Miller only prolongs the the progression and adds to our needs. And why? Because he will be 32 years old? Detroit Adds (not subtracts) significant pieces and then reinforces them through the draft. We are on our way to that model.

The process has started. Lets not take any significant steps back if we don't have to.

Dean - I completely object to your suggestion that LouWill and Herb are worth giving up for Lowry. LouWill may or may not fit on this team but his greatest value will be as a trading chip, similar to what Gerald Green was last year. And look where it got the Celtics. IMHO, Lowry is a great story but I doubt there would be so much enamoration if he wasn't a local guy.

I agree with Craig. The idea is to "add" good players, not subtract them. The goal should be the #7 seed this year, #4 next year, and the #1 seed in 2010. Draft well and avoid writing bad contracts. How about adding an experienced Euro player who is fundamentally sound?

Does Carney for Lowry straight up work for the Griz?
Carney goes back to Memphis and we get a young point to play and develop (I think Lou Will is a 2 guard in a point guard's body)
Let Lowry and Lou W. continue to learn from Andre Miller...

Tormented:

Put aside Lowry's 39% FG and 23% 3pt, put aside his 2:1 turnover assist ratio. After all, don't you know that 5 or 6 GM's are interested in Lowry, doesn't that tell you anything? What has Lou accomplished? How many GM's are interested in him? None that I've read.

Looking forward it is easy to project Lowry way ahead of Lou. I mean, C'mon! Personally I would trade both Carney and Lou "straight up" for Lowry. I'd even throw in out 2009 first rounder, top 5 protected of course, if that's what it took.

Oh Morty. You're essentially asking me to put aside the truth.
I refuse to pay that price for the next Speedy Claxton. Willie Green, maybe, but not one of our young talents.

Throw in a number one? Trade Carney and Lou for Lowry? What are you Billy Kings dumber brother?

No way in the world should you give up Carney and a first round pick for a back up point guard. Even our home boy. Carney is starting to help this team on the defensive end. He can come around offensively given time. He was a 1st rounder only last year. I'm not ready to call him a bust. And I certainly would not package him for Lowry. Please don't get me wrong. I really think Lowry can help this team. I would just to find other pieces to part with.

Morty, You would trade two guys in your rotation who are producing and a first round pick for a second or third string bench player from a very bad team? Who are we the Knicks?

This squad is growing on me and I dont think it would hurt to wait until the offseason before any major personel decisions are made. Andre Miller will still be valuable after the season. In fact by then he might be so valuable that the 6ers cant afford to let him go.

Beantown - Just to be clear, I hate Villanova. However, as it's been mentioned many times on ESPN.com (I posted the article a couple of days ago on the blog), Memphis has had 6 NBA GMs call with significant interest in Lowry. It's not only because he has great potential, but also because Memphis has a logjam at PG and the #4 pick overall this year invested in Mike Conley. The NBA sees this kid's potential as (1) a defensive stopper up top and (2) a PG who can effectively manage a team on the offensive end.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the Sixers could acquire Lowry and have him learn the nuances of the PG position from Andre Miller over the next 1.5 seasons? He'd be 23 years old when taking over the starting PG position from Andre in the 2009-2010 season. If that were to happen, I might be persuaded to change my mind a bit about dealing Miller by the trade deadline this season.

And, if you could somehow pry Mike Miller away from Memphis with Lowry, all you have to focus on in the offseason is the PF position.

Interesting...

fellas, fellas, fellas:

I'm kidding, just tweaking our wise old Dean of the board. Relax. Haven't you read my thoughts enough by now to realize I'm no Billy King Jr.?

By the way, Dean, at least when it comes to the Sixers being mentioned in regards to Lowry, I read that it was Memphis that called ES, not the other way around.

How about this 3-team trade idea (apparently works when checked on ESPN's trade machine)....

Memphis sends Lowry to Philly
Memphis sends Cardinal to Dallas

Dallas sends Diop & Harris to Philly
Dallas sends Stackhouse, Ager & Cash ($3 mil) to Memphis (with Memphis "expected" to buy out Stackhouse thus allowing him to return to Dallas after 30 days)

Philly sends Andre Miller, Lou Williams & Calvin Booth to Dallas.

Dallas would also send 1 first round pick to Philly and 1 first round pick to Memphis. (I think these picks are warranted, but I'm not really sure if these picks would need to be included so don't get stuck on the picks when evaluating the whole deal).

Basically, Philly would get Devin Harris and Kyle Lowry, as well as an expiring contract (and better backup center) in Diop for Andre Miller, Lou Williams and Booth.

Memphis would get rid of Cardinal's contract by packaging it with Lowry who is now expendable since they have a glut at the PG position. Memphis would receive a rookie talent in Ager as part of the deal. They would also receive cash from Dallas with the expectation that they would buy out Stackhouse's contract, thus allowing him to return to Dallas after waiting 30 days. For their trouble, Dallas would also have to send a 1st round pick to Memphis. (I think there is enough argument for Philly to also get a 1st round pick as part of this deal, but it's possible that Memphis should get both 1st round picks since they would have to buy out Stackhouse's contract.)

Dallas would get a stud PG in Andre Miller while keeping their top-3 scorers in Nowitzki, Howard and Terry. They also get a young backup PG in Lou Williams who could do very well in that offense. They also would get a backup center in Booth to replace Diop. And to top it off....they could resign Stackhouse after waiting 30 days. They would have to take on Cardinal's contract, but maybe that would be enough to save them 1 of the first round picks.

I think this trade works for each team. The Sixers would solidify the PG position with this deal and also free up a bit of cash which would be helpful in resigning Lowry....and hopefully they can lure a quality free agent this offseason....and then resign Iggy. They still would need a PF and I really hope they get Kevin Love in the draft...nbadraft.net projections make it seem possible. Also, I would see if a trade of Kevin Ollie to Boston would return something of value (maybe get Powe or Glen Davis, along with an expiring contract). Big Baby or Powe could help a bit at the PF position. I think this trade would also allow the Sixers to continue contending this year while getting younger and freeing up some money. What do you all think?

Morty - you had me. I was worried.

Dean - at least 20% of the people I meet are fools, hence your 6 GM's. I'm not saying Lowry is worthless, I'm just saying he's not worth LouWill. Memphis clearly put him on display Tue b/c they want to get rid of him. That indicates they are working from a position of weakness. Giving them 2 for 1 would be careless.

Can you imagine a Lowry/Herb Hill combo for the next 10 years? Can you say "ChampionshipS"?

Seriously though. That deal may work on the trade machine, but it doesn't work in reality. We send off our biggest bargaining chip in Miller and a really good prospect for Lowry, Diop and Dallas' #1 (probably in the 27-30 range)?

And Harris. Let's not forget him. The point guard so good Dallas wants rid of him and his bright future. You all realize that Harris before he got injured had the keys to the offense taken away from him by Avery Johnson cause he couldn't run it properly, right. Just seems to me that we're giving away more to get what we already have. A young potentially good point guard that's still learning the game.

Theo:

If we could trade Miller for Harris, I would do it. Dallas is just in win-now mode, thinking short term win the title and deal with the consequences later. I don't see that happening though, so wouldn't put too much thought into it.

Personally I would hold out hope for Calderon this summer. We may be one of the few teams able to offer him max money. The question would then be whether Toronto could match, given how much they have tied up in Ford.

Tormented:

Only 20%? That sounds low...

Morty - I was trying to be respectful but yes, its a lot higher.

Can we stop discussing PG's, beings we have a very good one and promising understudy, and start trying to identify the next Carlos Boozer - an underappreciated 4 waiting for his chance to shine?

One of the things I like about Harris is that he's a tough defensive PG as well as a promising offensive PG. I don't think Dallas is "trying" to get rid of him. They just realize that they have to give something to get something. Teams don't trade you a Jason Kidd or Andre Miller without getting something back. Harris signed an extension that kicks in after this season....I think it's 5 years for about $42 mil. I think he's worth that and it would be nice for the Sixers to have that position locked up. I'd like to resign Lowry as a backup if they were able to make the deal. While I like Lowry, I don't think he's ready to be a starter every night just yet. I'd like him as a reserve who gets about 16-20 minutes per night and could start if needed.

This is from Chris Sheridan on ESPN.com February 12th: "The Nuggets, Bulls, 76ers, Heat, Warriors and Nets are among the teams seeking to acquire Lowry, the 24th overall pick in 2006 who became expandable when the Grizzlies acquired Javaris Crittenton from the Lakers in the Gasol trade."

Beantown - That would be Mark Wekentein, John Paxson, Ed Stefanski, Pat Riley, Chris Mullin, and Rod Thorn. I wouldn't really refer to any of those gentlemen as "fools", although Thorn and Stefanski maxed out Vince Carter this past summer. What a terrible deal that was.

In terms of "2 for 1", Herb Hill doesn't count in my opinion. It's like trading Lou Amundson, Shav Randolph, or Calvin Booth. They get thrown in to make the deal work, just like Ivan McFarland got thrown in with Iverson. The deal is still essentially Lou Williams for Kyle Lowry with an extra salary thrown in to make it work financially.

Tormented:

Amen to that. Seriously, we need 2 big time impact players, and to be debating a Kyle Lowry is about the same as wishing for a Mike Miller-type. They are, at best, both pieces to fill in the gaps after you have some impact players.

Right now, we have Dre and Miller. Thad will grow into a larger impact role, but not for another year or two. And Miller's future with the team is cloudy. So Stefanski better have bigger plans than Kyle Lowry, or even Mike Miller.

Give me Josh Smith or Calderon, along with a nice draft pick and we're getting somewhere.

If in the next 5 years we do "nothing " at the 1 position except gradually tilt the minutes the other way, are we good enough. There are 48 minutes a night to cover and I haven!t gone down the combos of 1!s each playoff team has, but if we are in the mix,than resign Miller for less money [6 or 7 per]; if he would go for it [3,4 years] and address our weaknesses.I keep thinking of M.Jackson, another p.g. who didn!t depend on athletism to get by, seemed he played forever.

By the way, I, like others on the blog keep touting Calderon.Good shooter, low turnovers, etc. But the fact of the matter is, how does he run a team.They have shooters and Bosh down low yet struggle to play 5 games over 500 in the weak east.Just wondering!!!

suede:

Good point. Miller's game is not really based on athleticism. I liken him to the old head on the playground who would always be crazy sweaty, stick his butt into you when he posted up, and otherwise just make things happen even though he couldn't jump or run for sh%t.

The thing is though. I don't see how we can add those 2 more players we need without using Miller to get one of them. Anyone with some bright ideas?

Morty- I was starting to think you overdosed on the cough medacine for a minute there. That trade was a doozy! 2 players and a 1st rounder for Lowry! LOL!

I couldn't agree with you more about Calderon. I think he is a perfect fit for this team. He averages 13pt/gm and 9ast/gm. He shoots something like 43% from 3-pt land and 92% from the free throw line. Both weaknesses of this team. They should trade for him NOW! Why take a chance he signs with somebody else or Toronto matches.

How about this possibility – we get nothing for LouWill if he’s signed away by another team this summer. No one here thinks it’s possible for a team to Pat Riley us and offer both Iggy and LouWill really good money? Everyone’s around the $11M number for Iggy. What’s LouWill’s number? $8 million? What if someone nuts offered $10M to Lou? What’s Thad gonna cost in 2 years?

I read on ESPN’s TrueHoop that the 2010 free agent class is gonna be an amazing collection of talent – don’t we have to try to position ourselves for that? I don't think it's a given that LeBron, when his Cleveland contract is done, goes to Jay-Z and the Brooklyn Nets. He could end up here in Philly - I think he'd love playing for Mo, and having our defense behind him.

One reason I like the LouWill for Lowry trade is that we don’t have to pay Lowry for another year or two, and when we do, I don’t think it’d be so much because Lowry’s not a big-time scorer, and those are the guys who get paid.

I think some Oakland A’s-type of payroll and talent management should be considered here. It shouldn’t be the overriding thinking, but should be considered.

From now on when someone posts about wanting to bring Lowry here, can you please post with the name: HOMER. Cause that's what you all sound like. I like Philly kids as much as anyone. But let's not be silly.

As for Harris...like I said before, it's been stated the Mavs weren't happy with the way he ran the offense there. And if he's such a gifted point guard, why all the extra pieces in that Kidd deal? Two picks on top of the expiring contracts? All things considered I'd rather put the time into developing Williams, rather than trade away Miller for another possible future solution at point guard.

Lou Will is NOT A STARTING NBA PG! In my opinion!

He's a SG that can handle a few minutes a game at PG! Thats it!

Theo:

Or, alternatively, if the team really does not want to give Lou a look at PG, why not start him at 2 guard? They already run the lineup with Dre, Miller and Lou a lot. So why not start the game with it? I know I sound like a broken record here, but we all know Willy's best role is instant offense off the bench, why not put him in that role right now? It has worked with Evans...

Salaries are an issue; L.Will. 4 or 5 enough?; As far as getting the pieces, I hate to bring up the draft but if we had a top 5 pick we would just do one trade or signing and be set; 2 starters? Not gonna say the T,T,T, word, but E.S.!s job is gonna be alot tougher.

After going through that with Iverson, I don't want an undersized 2 guard being a defensive liability. Lou Williams is valuable but I wouldn't feel really comfortable with him being an every game starter. I'd feel comfortable with him as a 12-15 minute per game reserve. Kinda like Detroit's Microwave back in the day....was it Vinnie Johnson?

Anyways, regarding Devin Harris, I highly doubt that Dallas doesn't think he can run an NBA offense....I doubt they would have signed him to a $42 mil extension if they had doubts about that. I think that Avery Johnson was challenging him by doing that. It's a long NBA season and benching a player or removing him from the starting lineup for a couple weeks in the first half of the season is a common tactic used by coaches to send a message. Avery Johnson is that type of coach and I think he took him out of the starting lineup so he could watch a bit and learn to run things a better way. Harris is talented and most NBA teams would be really happy to have him. All of the Kidd-Harris trade reviews were touting Harris' skills and wondering if Dallas would regret dealing him. Sure doesn't sound like a player who can't run an NBA offense.

Signed,
Homer

Morty, Willie started out guarding Mike Miller the other night. I don't think Lou can handle that. Willie plays better "D" than Lou. So unless we move Dre to the 2, Thad to the 3, I don't see an alternative to Willie in the starting lineup.

Oh, and Lou should not command anything anywhere near $8m. $3m max.

I love Lowry game. For one you don't give up Lou. For two you trade Gordan Giricek. His contract is up the year and he's not playing anyway.

Dallas is giving up too much. Good for George to block the trade.

He is this year's Matt Geiger.

Watch Dallas go to the finals this year!

Craig:

Good point. However, it's not like Willy is some super defender, and they do run Lou/Dre/ Miller out there quite often already. Just saying that this is a year to experiment and take risks. It's not like we have a title in sight. Let's see what the kids can do! And if we happen to lose more games than not while doing it, well that's just a higher draft position.

I happen to think Lou has the potential to be a much better defender than he is. he has very long arms to help him play bigger than his height, and he is quicker than most. Mo needs to really get on him about playing closer to his man.

It's been commented on by many that Harris has been devalued this year in the Mavs eyes. In an NBA where teams have Derron Williams and Chris Paul to run their teams for the next decade, you really think the Mavs would consider trading Devon Harris if they thought he could be the same thing for them? I don't. Especially when he's just one piece of that trade (granted a big one). There's a reason the Mavs felt the need to overpay for Kidd. and it's not his 36% shooting.

To say Lou Williams has no future at the point is silly too. his assist to turnover ratio has always been good. Is he even 20? He has a lot of talent and can be molded. Can we find a point guard big enough to defend 2 guards and run the show? we spent Iverson's entire career here looking for that.

Morty,

I like Williams off the bench to start. Willie Green has been playing well in the last month. I see no reason to demote him to the bench. Especially when as you stated Williams is getting the run in the 4th.

Lou Will has the skills to be a great backup guard in a three guard rotation, if Iggy can really be a 2 and if they add a big PG who was also a serious outside threat. Williams would be perfect off the bench getting 15-20 minutes and sharing time with either.

The Vinnie Johnson reference was a good one. I can't even think of a fourth guard on those great Pistons teams. Though Johnson was built like a truck. Lou Will is built like a Vespa.

I see no long-term place for Willie Green on this team. In my opinion, he needs to be moved.

Second artilce in two weeks in the NY Times talking up Miller. I still think you need to hold on to him unless someone blows you away, but its interesting to see his name come up so often in out of town papers...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/sports/basketball/13sixers.html?ref=basketball

Trading Devin Harris for a veteran stud at PG doesn't mean that Harris isn't able to run an NBA offense for the next 5 years. It just means that the Mavs are willing to sacrifice their future a bit in order to try and win it all now.

It's what most trades are about....I'll trade you a young talent for your veteran. I may wish I had the young talent in a couple years, but I need the veteran now.

Trying to make that mean that Devin Harris is not quality doesn't make sense. He's already one of the 5 best defensive PG's in the league, and he's got a lot of offensive potential as well.

Willie's not a super defender, but he is better than people give him credit for. He's better than Lou right now.

I think we have a pretty good idea of what Lou can do. He's an ok point and an undersized 2. Lou has to tap that defensive potential in order to crack the starting line up.

I agree. You can't start Andre Miller and Lou Williams in the backcourt together. They would get physically manhandled by every other NBA backcourt, even if you have Lou play the point on defense and Andre play the 2. Andre's not big enough or quick enough to stay with most starting 2 guards in the league. Lou would get posted up every time down the floor if he started at the 2.

No, Willie Green is the appropriate starter at the 2 spot right now.

Apparently Stackhouse opening his yap about going back to Dallas after getting bought out of his contract could pose another problem in the proposed deal for Kidd....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3247183

What is this rumor I am hearing about the 6ers being the front-runners for Artest?

Allegedly Stephen A Smith said last night that we are the front runners for Artest/+ by offering Carney, Green, Utah's pick. To make it work Ollie's deal would likely have to go to Sac.

I see this making us a better team down the stretch as we make a run. Also, Artest will opt out this summer and we could liekly do a sweet sign and trade with a team that really wants him.

Do we risk him behaving himself for a few months? If we add his presence to this team we can make a playoff run and be a tough out for Boston or Detroit. Plus, we get cap room when he opts out.

Can anyone confirm or give more info on this?

Well, like I've said, Mo does run Miller and Lou together all the time, so it's not like Mo tries to stay away from that pairing.

I understand that Green is the safer, more conventional choice to start, no argument there.

Just saying that, unless we really think this team can be the 6 seed in the playoffs, the focus of this season should be testing our young guys, and exploring their capabilities.

Furthermore, Green's best role going forward is as instant offense of the bench. Several people on the blog made similar arguments against moving Evans to the bench and starting Thad, and that has worked out well on both ends. I see this as similar.

But, at the end of the day, I'll move on. Not a major issue.

Any word on the Artesticle rumors?

Rob:

If that is true that Artest will opt out at the end of the year, I would think long and hard about that trade.

Putting aside Ron Ron's insanity:
PG Milller
SG Dre
SF thad
PF artest
C Sammy
looks like a nice starting five, with some very good defensive potential.

Stephen A. said this? Wow. The only thing I don't like is depleting our bench on the wings with that deal. I'd much rather use Amundson's contract instead of Carney's. I can't see how we wouldn't do that deal though. Especially if Artest is opting out.

Is Artest on the last year of his deal??? Also, If that's true, I guess we want to win now. He also can post up and play the 2, 3 or 4. I'd love that if Mo can handle him.
I think we will try to do something soon because of Snyder's recent comments about his unhappiness regarding the lack of attendance. Money talks.........

On Hoops Hype it says that Artest has a player option for next year. Not sure exactly what that means.........

I think Artest is an absolute nut case!

That being said, I wouldn't mind having him on the team for the rest of the year. Not crazy about giving up Carney though. I'd rather give up other expiring contracts like Amundson or Shav. Maybe through in Lou Will and we get Udrih in the deal. He's only 25, and is 6'3". He did OK filling in for Bibby and would only get better learning from Miller.

Joe, agree on Artest but my theory on an NBA team is if you have enough straight arrows particularly your best players/leaders (A.Miller, etc) AND if you compete, you can add a nut or 2. The problem when we had the real AI was that he was by far the best player and was allowed to do whatever he wanted.

I just thru in the Lou Will/Udrih thing to get a rise out of somebody. I wasn't serious.

Joe Doc, I agree with you. I think if you have enough straight arrows particularly your best players(A. Miller, etc) you can handle a nut or 2. When we had the real AI, he was the best player, pampered and he controled the team. I don't think this will be the case here. Since Snyder is commenting about the lack of attendance, it makes sense to do something soon without impacting the guts of the roster(top 7 players).

sfw- I agree. I think this team could handle a nut case. Everybody else on the team seems to be upstanding individuals. And I think Artest could teach Thad a thing or two. Tricks of the trade if you will!

I like Udrih. Not sure about his defense but yeah not Lou Will..........

Since we seem to be losing ground on our lottery pick, I say go for it. Just keep the young guys, A. Miller & Sammy DDDDDDDDDD.

I think Artest could teach all of us a thing or two. Not sure I want that lesson though.

With Artest and Reggie no one would mess with us. Hard for me to believe we'd get him for that stuff though.

I think that would make Beantown happy. Maybe even Dean.........................

Yea! They aren't giving away any pieces considered vital to the future. Carney is the only one that has a chance of being here in a couple of years. I would be happy to unload Green and his contract(3 more years). And Utah's pick won't be that good.

And since it looks like we might make the playoffs, we may as well make a honest run at it. Artest would help us match up better with every other team in the East. And he would increase attendance just because people will come to see if he blows up or what crazy thing he does next!

So is there actually anything to this other than a third hand Stephan A. report from TV?

Just so everyone knows Suede is going up the poconos this weekend without computer access. So, there will be no crazy trade proposals from him! Since he's away they'll probably make a trade.

Morty, we can make pretend. Maybe, Ed is reading this blog.............

if the s.a.s. rumor comes to fruition, the 6ers will have a playoff worthy lineup, possible of being a +.500 team this year. with sweet lou, gericek, and evans first off the bench they also seem deep enough. although flaky, artest is an unselfish very good two way player. being close to n.y.c., he may like philly. i know the fans will like him... until he does something flaky.

Because gotta say, I'm not sure this deal makes great sense for Sacremento. They get some cap relief, a low 1st rounder, a youngster in Carney who hasn't shown all that much in his time in the league and Willy Green who probably doesn't add all that much to their squad in the big picture. I know Ron Ron is crazy but he's very talented, and this deal sounds lopsided in our favor. Why wouldn't Sacramento just let him walk and get his full cap number off the books?

Also, would Artest want to negotiate a new deal as a condition for moving, or would he be content to test the market this summer?

You know, if they do that deal and Artest does opt out after this year it could be a great idea. Artest and Evens together would mean we wouldnt have to outplay teams, we could just suplex their best players or something...

Seriously, though, it could cut both ways. If we may a playoff run on his back and then he leaves, we're left picking low without the guy who got us there. But we have cap space.

Im not too worried about chemistry if its really just a rental type thing. Plus it unloads Willie's contract, which as i've said before i'd love to get done this year. Negative is that if artest does opt out, and we've given up Carney and Green(and giricek is gone), we'd be a little light on 2's...

Screamin A. Smith [thanks, Eskin] says much - and much junk. Wouldn't give that rumor credence. Highly doubt that Stefanski would want to saddle Cheeks & Co. with Artest, a formidable player but suspect teammate, for a dead-end playoff run, after Sixers have suffered through D.C., Big Dog and Webber accomodation attempts. If Ed stirs it up, it won't be for a short term fix.

KM:

As, I just said, I don't see this happening, but if it did, and we didn't keep Artest, that would be another net 4 mil off the cap, and we'd still have Miller and his expiring contract. Not a bad thing...

All sounds good to me. It is intriguing. Green won't get anything out of it. He'd be playing behind that scoring 2 guard of Sac and I guess if Artest walks, Iggy would be our 2, TYoung our 3. No Willie Green. I like it. Sac may want to do it since they are most probably losing him next year. They'd be getting ok value. Green, Carney & the no #1.

No Artest
No trading Louis Williams
We need a 4 to pound it into ASAP. They should go after Elton Brand despite injury.

http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_8244063

I am still looking for more info on what SAS said, but above is the link where the Denver Post writer speculates about Philly's interest in Artest.

We get him for the stretch run, then we move him in a sign and trade in the summer.

Interesting article. I can't see Artest, AI & Melo on the same team..........

Morty, Thats what i was getting at too. But, it would mean goodbye to any chances of a good pick.

ultimately i'd rather see them stick it out with what they've got this year, but its an interesting possiblity. The only reason i really think its all that interesting is it frees up Willie's cap space...but im not even sure that getting rid of him is the best way to go anymore. I kind of like him as a backup, if other needs are addressed.

Thanks rob. The article mentioned the Sixers, but it was hard to tell if they meant to trade for Artest and resign him, or to go after him in he summer.

To sign him long term is obviously a bigger gamble, and he is not the athletic type ES has been talking about. Still a week to go till the deadline. Maybe things will get interesting...

Am I hearing this right? The deal is:

Artest

for

Carney, Green, Ollie, and Utah's 1st rounder?

If this is the case, the Sixers are completely nuts if they don't do this deal. Artest has a player option for next season, and if he opts out, that's another $4M in cap space added to the $10M figure. If he doesn't opt out, then we have Artest for another year at $7.4M, which is a complete steal.

If you make this deal though, you almost have to do the Lou Will for Lowry deal, as the Sixers have no legitimate PG option if Andre Miller goes down ocne Kevin Ollie is moved.

KM:

Right. The idea of getting Artest so cheap is intriguing, but maybe not the right fit as he is not really a PF, though he can play it sometimes b/c of his girth.

Recipe for Success

One part Ron Ron

3 parts Philly Media

Sprinkle generously with angry Sixer fans

Place in pressure cooker for multi-year contract

Honestly, how long before Ron attacks one of us? I love it for a playoff run and expiring contract. But not to sign him long term. We can do better than that.

sfw:

Check it out! suede may not miss a trade, but he does miss myself and Dean on the same page!

Well, at least until Dean tries to right the karma of getting Artest on the cheap by using it to push his Lou for Lowry, "straight up," fantasy.

But let's enjoy the moment...

theo, you talk like artest regularly attacks fans. he is flaky, but he's harmless... when he's not provoked! that being said, he is also a very good player who is not afraid to take the big shot.

"harmless when not provoked"

-famous last words.

I agree that Artest is not the long term answer. But I do think he is worth a shot for the rest of the year. He has already said he plans to opt out at the end of the year. So we end up with more cap space. And since it looks like we are going to make the playoffs anyway. I say do it, so we have a chance in the playoffs. Without Artest, we have very little chance in the playoffs. But with him, we match up better. I think Iggy, Thad, Artest, and Sam could give Boston's Big 3 a run for their money. I would love to spoil their season!

I'd love to come to Philly! I love the cheese steaks! I always wanted to be coached by Jimmy & HBib! AI & I what a combination & Sammy DDDDD!

Actually, that was my RonRon imitation. Suede is going Blogger cold turkey right about now and cracking open his first beer of many. Yes, he will miss Morty & Deans pleasant conversations.
He'll be going crazy................

don't provoke him!!

Artest dealing with the Philly media and Philly fans if things don't go well in the 3rd year of his contract won't be pretty.

And you say he only attacked fans once. That's still a pretty big deal and he is nuts. Also his rap album was really bad. Worse than Iverson's. Not as bad as Kobe or Shaq's though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8QdTW5SNFA&feature=related

Would I bring him here for a year to clear more space, sure. Do I want to sign him to a long term deal for the 13 million he probably expects to get. No way.

Theo:

Please tell me you didn't listen to all 4 of their rap albums....?

Moishe: As a reminder, I don't speak to you anymore because you're a waste of my time. Please respect that. Thank you. Dean

I gotta say that I'd be open to trading for Artest if it only costs us Green, Carney, Ollie and a 2009 first rounder (which would likely be low in the round). We'd be competitive down the stretch and be able to make a strong playoff push....hell, I think only Boston and Detroit would be better than us in the East, and I think we'd be able to be somewhat competitive against either of them in a playoff series if things gel.

Plus, the best way to convince free agents to come to Philly is to have a team that's showing improvement....making the playoffs and maybe winning a series would be a good way to lure players to Philly.

If Artest exercises his player option for next year, then great....we'd have both Artest & Miller for another year and could be competitive next year. If it doesn't work out, then we could either trade the expiring contracts if someone interesting is available or we could clear off that salary from our cap and again try and lure a quality free agent or two.

Dean:

My name is Morty, and I don't respect people who put words in my mouth and accuse me of "making sh*t up" when I was clearly not, as was proven.

I will write whatever I want. I'll respect you by not cursing at you. That's the best you'll get from me, barring an apology.

If you can't take gentle ribbing, you need some tougher skin...

By the way, I believe I have Iverson's single somewhere on my hard drive if anyone is interested. No Ron Ron, however.

Sucks to be NJ, huh? First George holds up the trade and now even if he agrees, Stack's big mouth might keep the trade from going thru.

The smartest thing the Sixers can do right now is to sign Andre Miller to a contract extension of 4 or 5 years. You simply aren't going to trade him for anyone who can make as much impact as he can. Veteran point guards are a commodity, a necessity for a championship caliber team (and that is the idea here, right?)

Trading Lou Williams would be completely insane. They have spent the time to develop him, having come straight out of high school. He's only 21 years old...keep that in mind. Right now he is "instant offense" off the bench, but he will be much more than that in the near future. If the Sixers keep Miller, that allows Williams to be a scoring guard ala Iverson (but without the ball-hogish tendencies). Lou moves well off the ball, plays solid D, can penetrate and go to the glass, dunk, drop a 3 on you, or dish to the open guy. And he's only 21 years old.

Thaddeus Young was a nice surprise. At only 19 years old with a single season of college ball, he's going to be something special. He's so well rounded for a player who is obviously still trying to figure things out...I'm telling you, something special.

Dalembert is a solid center who needs to be more consistent. The man can be mean. When he's mean he blocks shots and pull in rebounds. Someone needs to figure out what it would take to get him "I'm going to kill that motherfu**er" mad before every game.

We know that Igoudala is capable of scoring and plays lock-down D. I believe he can be a legit #1 star if he has another equal-or-close-to-it offensive threat out there. That may be Lou or Thadd, but not for another season or two.

The five players above, plus Jason Smith and possibly Shavlik Randolph, are a good young core with veteran leadership from the point guard spot with Miller. If the Sixers can add one quality offensive threat via free agency, they are a season or two away from seriously contending.

It really sucks to be NJ, that was a pretty good looking trade for them.

I agree. NJ got a great deal in my eyes. If they can just get the deal done. Not looking o good.

Lou Williams and Carney for Lowrey and Hakeem Warrick.

I don't understand this desire for Lowrey. I'd rather have Lou Will. I think he is still developing and has greater upside than Lowrey.

If Mo isn't resigned, who will be our next coach. It has to be someone who can deal with a young group. Young, Lou, Sam, Andre, etc.

Calipari

Don't know if the Stephen A. rumor is true, but if it is, I would lean toward believing him. He was the Philly writer that said that Philly still tried to trade Iverson back in the day to Detroit, but Matt Geiger wouldn't wave his trade kicker. Even when BK and other Philly officials were denying.

He also said that the 76ers would pick Thaddeus Young while the 76ers were on the clock in this past draft while everyone thought they were taking Al Thornton.

This sounds like the type of deal that Ed would do. In Ron Artest, you are getting a top 20 caliber player in the NBA. He would be the 76ers low post threat and lock up the other team's best player. Artest by far is the no. 1 man on man defender in the league, regardless of what they say about Bruce Bowen.

Oh yeah, he is as crazy as a bed bug, too. Having he and Evans on the floor at the same time would be a treat to see. KG would get his neck broken (kidding).

Artest would play nice the rest of the year because he's playing for that next contract. With that trade and when Artest opts out, the team would have: $14M to $16M in cap room (depending if the cap goes up by $2M as it has in previous years), Artest's bird rights and a $10M expiring contract in Andre Miller. Sweet!

I think Artest could wind up with the Heat at the trade deadline since they have the expiring contracts, but I don't think they'd give up future no. 1 picks since they are rebuilding. And again, if Stephen A. said this (though we have no proof), it could be true.

He usually gets the inside stuff that Marc and Phil miss completely and that they report after the fact.

DaTruth - I agree wholeheartedly. You're basically giving up nothing to get him and gaining $4M more of cap space at the end of the year (which would bring the grand total to $14M) if Artest opts out. Plus, who knows, Ron may love it here with his wacko sidekick Reggie Evans. Bottom line, we will have the most intimidating defensive 1-2 combo in the league, hands down. Throw Sam in there to block shots, and you have opponents settling for jumpers all day long.

Who needs the thicker skin Moishe?

http://reclinergm.wordpress.com/2008/02/16/sixers-all-star-weekend-or-lack-thereof/

Don't see where Lowry fits on this team, unless you are going to play Williams a lot more as the off guard with Andre Miller in the line-up as well.