Deep Sixer

Congrats, Andre. Very solid player. However, he reminds me of Eric Snow sometimes when he attempts to finish on the break.

andre miller compared to eric snow? that makes no sense. does thaddeus young remind you of rick mahorn?

Cangrat's Andre! Classy person and player! May he retire as a Sixer!

Miller is about #8 or #9 in the league at the point. Can!t believe somebody wouldn!t blow E.S. away with an offer. Happy hunting!!

I read an interview of ES on the 700 Level blog, and he said that the offers he was getting were only partial cap space, not the full 9+ mil, and a draft pick. Since the offers are, presumably, from winning teams we're talking about taking back a longer term contact than we give away, for a player we likely don't want (Steven Hunter-type) and a pick that will be in the latter half of the draft. Doesn't sound like much to me.

Kwame Brown's expiring contract was the center piece to the Gasol deal. I want a trade like that.

We already have access to a 10-16 mil player this off season (even 20 mil if we used Miller or Sammy). So let's let ES play his hand.
/Morty

Glad to hear Miller get some props from the league. He's been sticking out a tough year without complaining. This is great for him.

Side point about Miller - he's going to be pretty close to a career year in scoring by the time all is said and done. Put that together with his strong track record in floor leadership and it probably improves his value in the offseason.

Suede - True that he's up there in the league, but he's still not the best pg option on the market. Mr. Kidd will be the one to attract the pre-deadline blow away offers.

KM:

I'm not so sure about that. It certainly can't hurt his trade value, but I'm not so sure Miller is seen as a winner. Unless I'm mistaken, he's never really played on a true contender. My instinct, for what its worth, tells me that Miller will have his highest value as an expiring 10 mil contract in a trade.

All that said, agreed that he is a very solid player, and his attitude is exemplary, the way he's handled being in Phila.
/Morty

This has to help increase the offers that Big Ed will get for A. Miller at the trade deadline. Stefanski probably won't see his best offers for Miller until trade deadline day, so hopefully the award will drive up the price a little.

Marc, let's not go overboard concerning Miller. He is a 32-year-old point guard on a bad team that needs to rebuild. That's the bottom line. If trading him now helps you get to where you want to go quicker, then move him. Leave all the sentimental stuff aside and focus on the best way to improve this basketball team so that it is competitive again.

Anyone has the number to the GM in Orlando?

Ed is on comcast right now

We have $10 - 11 M under the salary cap MAX right now if Kevin Ollie is not re-signed and Iggy / Lou Williams are re-signed. Stop saying sh*t that isn't true Morty; we don't have $10 - $16M under the cap.

I'd also like you to name me a trade where Billy King got the short end of the stick. CWebb? Any single person on this board would have done that deal - and now look, Sacramento can't make a deal because they're trying to include Kenny Thomas into everything. Neither team won. How about Ratliff, Pepe Sanchez, and Nazi Mohammad for Mutomobo? Did that deal suck? What about in an impossible situation getting Miller, Joe Smith, and 2 #1 picks (mid to late to be fair) for Iverson? No Morty, Billy King never got taken in a trade; his main fault (and what got him fired) was his inability to see when to cut loose an aging player. Deals to Aaron McKie, Eric Snow, and Kenny Thomas are what sunk his ship. And yes, your idea of sitting Webber on the bench for 40 minutes a game for 2 years while he festered would have done wonders for team morale. Great idea moron.

Regarding Andre Miller's situation...if the Sixers can't get back 2/3 of his total salary in cap relief, I wouldn't trade him. However, I find that incredibly hard to believe seeing the number of contending teams that need a legit, veteran PG. Denver and Orlando immediately come to mind. Portland comes to mind. Cleveland also is right up there. The Sixers could also be a 3rd wheel in the Dallas - NJ deal, using Miller as a chip for NJ to replace Kidd. There are all kinds of scenarios out there for E.S. to explore.

If we keep Andre Miller, we'll make the playoffs. I'm pretty certain about that.

If we trade him, we won't. I sure about that.

Would the value we get in return for Miller exceed the value of playoff experience, or even playoff contention? I don't see much out there.

Dean, if Eddie S. is saying he doesn't need any more cap space next year, why are we debating it?

He's saying he doesn't need more cap space to play in the mid-level free agent market. In terms of the big dogs, he doesn't have enough to go after Brand, Josh Smith, etc. The math just doesn't work - he's not going to get one of those two to elave their current situations unless he makes them a max offer.

If he doesn't want to do that, OK, but what are you going to do about your lack of a low-post presence? There's no low-post threats in the 2009 free agent class. What are you going to do about the lack of a SG? There's no shooting guards that you can get for under $10M this off-season? Maggette is going to get more than that (see Joe Johnson 3 years ago). I just don't see how he's going to improve the team significantly with only $10M to spend.

Between AI, Thad and Carney, I would hope we can find our SG of the future.

Eddie S stated on WIP Friday morning that they didn't need to seek any more cap space and that they're the only team with real cap room. He again stated the 'blow me away' trade status of Andre Miller.

Focus your cap space (and creativity) on the PF, draft with PG in mind.

Deam:

First of all, I am not going to debate Billy King moves with you. I will give you that he inherited a bad situation from Brown, but it is one he helped create, and one he was given 5 years to solve. He did not.

Now, for the last time and then I will either let somone else explain, or will simply let it pass: In the NBA you must match salaries unless you are under the cap.

Therefore, we can trade for a 16 mil player using only a 6 mil player in exchange. Because we are under the cap. If we trade Sammy or Miller, we could take back 20 mil in salary.

It's like banging my head against a brick wall with you. This is not rocket science.

Here is some further reading from an interview w/ ES "There’s always a chance, because we’re under the cap, we have much more flexibility, so you could do it via free agency or you could do it with a trade. We could take that cap space, with a player, and add it up in a trade. We could take a $3-4 million guy and put it together with the cap space, say $11 million, and add it up in a trade. You now have a player in a $14-16 million range. Who knows what franchise is disenchanted with a player, or which player is not happy in that city. So that’s another route besides free agency we can go due to our cap flexibility. With your scenario, if nothing works in free agency, we still do have a window the following year in free agency. If we’re realistic about it, we’re going to have a 2-year window with free agency. If we don’t use it this year, we’re going to have it next year."
/Morty

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#67

67. What are the rules regarding trades?

Teams under the salary cap may make trades as they please, as long as they don't end up more than $100,000 above the salary cap following a trade. But if a team is over the cap, or they are under the cap and a trade would take them more than $100,000 over the cap, then an exception is required. An exception is the mechanism that allows a team to make trades or sign free agents and be over the salary cap. Since teams are usually over the salary cap, trades are usually accomplished using exceptions.
Some exceptions are available only for signing free agents, and those exceptions are covered in question number 19 . The exceptions available for making trades are as follows:

The Traded Player exception is the principal means through which most trades are made. It is described in question numbers 68 and 69.

The Minimum Salary exception can be used for either trades or signing free agents. It allows teams to acquire minimum-salary players. See question number 70 for more information.

The Disabled Player exception can also be used for either trades or signing free agents. It allows teams to acquire replacements for certain injured players (see question number 19 for more information).
Note that there are sometimes multiple ways to configure the same trade. For example, a minimum-salary player might be acquired using either the Traded Player exception or the minimum salary exception, or a two-for-two trade might also work as two separate one-for-one trades. Teams are allowed to choose the configuration that works best for them. See question number 72 for an example of this.

DJ Augustine from Texas would be a nice PG of the future.

Dean:

Nice response. You might need to re read that "NBA General Management for Dummies."
/Morty

At least it sounds like Ed has a sound approach to the whole thing. It makes sense to wait and see what the best opportunity for the Sixers will be.

If you trade Miller, you will need another point. I am confident that Lou Williams can be a top 10 point in the league, but they will still need someone to back him up.

Since I want the Sixers to get a lottery pick, I'd be fine with the Sixers trading Miller, and we could rely on Ollie and Williams at the point for this season, but we will have to get another ball handler by next season.

Miller is a quality point guard, someone that a few teams heading into the playoffs need. The problem is, none of them are willing to offer the Sixers what they need. Desperation by these needy teams may up the offers.

Holding onto Miller into next year might work as well. Ed has increased his opportunities by having us under the cap and holding a few players with expiring contracts. All we need is the opportunity to add the right player. A stud PF.

Keep in mind that Ed is almost daring teams to up their offers with these "blow me away" type statements. It's like a bargaining process, and he has the ability to exert leverage over other teams at this point. We'll see how things heat up at the deadline, but I doubt any team has made a solid offer at this point.

I was responding to Dan C.'s assertion of drafting a PG; please don't think that every one of my responses is directed at your misguided posts.

Yes, we will clearly get a $15 - 20M player in a trade because that happens all the time. Other than Kevin Garnett (and remember that Ray Allen was there FIRST), please tell me the last time that a monster stud player has come to a LOSING team in a trade. No, that doesn't happen - you want to know why? Because if SUPERSTAR players are in bad situations, a la Jason Kidd, a la Allen Iverson, a la Shaquille O' Neal, a la Chris Webber, they generally don't go to another terrible situation. Teams that are close generally come in and take on the add'l salary, giving the original team cap relief or young players in return.

The whole point here is to rid yourself of Miller's contract to gain as much flexibility as possible. For him to say "Who knows what franchise is disenchanted with a player, or which player is not happy in that city" is a total wing and a prayer. He's right in that he has some cap flexibility now (and got it by trading away a bargain asset in Korver), but he hasn't maximized it. The only way he can get the Sixers to have all options possible via free agency or trades is to move Miller and get around $20M under the cap.

Do you understand that Morty? What is so hard about understanding that? Trades like he's throwing out there DON'T HAPPEN.

He's not going to get a "blow me away" offer with Jason Kidd on the block. If Kidd wasn't on the market, maybe that strategy would work. But Jason Kidd is 5 times the PG Andre Miller is; why wouldn't you blow away the Nets instead of the Sixers? His strategy won't work, at least in this season.

Dean, I thought the Korver trade allowed us to be in a position to take back more salary than we give. If I!m wrong, would like it explained. This may come in handy in restricted free agent sign and trades.[ J.Smith, Turiaf, and M.Ellis]

Jason Kidd has a 20 million dollar salary ! I doubt any teams could offer something appetizing to the Nets that comes to 20 million dollars without blowing up their team! If they can, good for them, but I think Andre Miller is more tradeable at this point.

One idea I have been kicking around is some type of Louis Williams for Monta Ellis sign and trade this summer. If GSW doesn't want to pay Ellis we could provide a cheaper alternative who I think could play a role similar to Ellis'. We'll have to see how each performs the rest of the year, but I don't think this is wholly unreasonable.

On another note, I would love to see some more Lou Williams pick and rolls. I like the way he plays off them, and he seems real tough to trap. Am I right?

Also, "blow me away" is just a term he's using as part of the bargaining process. Like buying a car. Listed at 20 grand, customer offers 17,500. Settle at 18,500. Same principles apply in trade negotiations.

Wish we could get E.S. some more ammo for draft night.Winning these games is also costing us our 2nd round pick [protected 30 to 34]Gorecek for expiring contract and 2nd rounder to contender would be nice. Believe he has value in some situations [Orlando, Cleveland,S.Antonio]

I agree with BoomDizzle. It should be easier to trade Miller over Kidd because he makes half as much.

Does anyone else crack up every time they show Dalembert's "the Haitian sensation...Sammy D!" routine on Comcast? I love it.

I know I know, I 'm arguing on the internets. However!

Dean, you said: "We have $10 - 11 M unsaidr the salary cap MAX right now if Kevin Ollie is not re-signed and Iggy / Lou Williams are re-signed. Stop saying sh*t that isn't true Morty; we don't have $10 - $16M under the cap."

You were then proven wrong, and instead of saying "I'm sorry I said you were making sh*t up, we do have more cap flexibility than I understood." you sarcastically say: "Yes, we will clearly get a $15 - 20M player in a trade because that happens all the time."

So my conclusion is that you are either a) arguing in bad faith, b) do not know what you are talking about, or c) should be the new GM of the Sixers because this Sefanski guy is "misguided," and doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
/Morty
p.s. you did notice that while you were willing to give up Sammy (a top 15 center) for Gasol, the Lakers got him for the 10 mil expiring contract of Kwame Brown. Did you study at the Billy King School of Negotiating with Yourself?

To everyone else on this board who understands basic NBA salary cap maneuvering:

I like the strategy of making big moves around the draft, either to move up or move Miller, or both. I think more teams will be interested, and bigger trades possible than the current time. And, of course, Miller will be an expiring contract.
/Morty

I'm with you Dizzle. I saw it for the first time tonight. Too Funny!

Morty, does make for a fun draft night. Really questioned last year but looks like development of TYoung & JSmith are making it look pretty good.

sfw:

Especially Thad. It's been said, but he sure looks like a steal at #12, right? I would take him over Yi (BK's first choice) the way it looks right now. At the time I thought it was very ballsy for BK b/c he sorta needed to win-now (see his Joe Smith play), but he choose the player most likely to need time to develop. I doubt anyone imagined Thad contributing so much so early.
/Morty

Dean,

Thanks for the response, I'll check out Augustine in the next few weeks and on nbadraft.net. My only worry is that he's 5-11 which means 5-9 at most.

I would rather keep Andre Miller for the simple fact that I see the Sixers taking a swan-dive if Miller is gone. If we're playing competitively and grow as a team, maybe the Superstar type players who typically wouldn't come to a Philadelphia would see something coming together here and consider it. We did our 'gutting' last year when we dumped AI and Webber, how many more gutting-style years do we need?

Augustine is a small score first point guard. I think he is legit 5'11" which means 6'1" in sneeks(NBA).Good talent. Usually, his type of guard is later in the first round. A lot of players like him haven't made it but you never know.

Augustine is a better/bigger version of the scoring guard on Villanova.

Reynolds is listed at 6'2". So, mabe Augustine isn't bigger but I think he's better. They are both on tonight. Nova-Georgetown right now and Texas-Kansas at 9:00pm on ESPN.

Interestingly enough, John Hollinger has Kevin Love ranked VERY high in the ranking system he uses for college players. Here's everyone over 600:

Player Score
Michael Beasley 856
Blake Griffin 725
Kevin Love 724
Danny Green 649
James Harden 642
Robbie Hummel 601
Jerrryd Bayless 599

Hollinger makes KLove legit for all of you hyping him on this board. I'm interested in Jerryd Bayless out of Arizona.

Before you go after me for this one, the reason I bring this up is because in last year's draft, after Durant, Oden and Conley Jr., the 4th rated guy in his system was Thaddeus Young.

why are y'all always scouting players the 6ers will not get? why don't you all ever talk about how mediocre igoudala is as a player?

dbeas:

Because he's not mediocre at all. I hope that answers your question.
/morty

he's not above average, and he's not worth the money that he is asking. why don't y'all put him in your trade strategies?

Is it me or did it look like Miller was auditioning for the Mavs and the rest of the West tonight? It was almost like he was showing Cuban he don't need Kidd when he could have him for half the money! Or showing the rest of the West what he can do against the mighty Mavs. You go Andre! I hope somebody "blows away" Ed with an offer!

the 6ers cannot trade a.milller and continue to be competitive. he is the glue and the m.v.p. of this team. they need to extend him, not trade him. another young player is not going to help this or next year.

I think Calderon would look great as a Sixer.

Thad played the biggest 4 in the league tonight, though not a pure postup, I thought he bodied up well. Am I nuts or does trading Evans move us up in the lottery.

Did you notice Mo yank Carney out of the game after he threw up a 3 cold off the bench.

Did you notice Mo yank Carney out of the game after he threw up a 3 cold off the bench.

Just got home from the game. Great win!! Reggie Evans off the bench is a totally different player than a starting Reggie Evans. He's definitely a useful piece at around $4.4M per season. When teams go small, he can also man the C position because of his athleticism. Willie Green also had a nice game tonight; for a change he hit most of his open looks.

I love DJ Augustine as a PG of the future; yes, he's a bit short, but he's a bulldog, can shoot the lights out, and is a nice defender.

Morty, in terms of cap space, if the Sixers went to sign a free agent after the season, how much $$ would they have assuming Andre Miller stays and they re-sign Iggy and Lou (as expected)? $10-$11 million (assuming Kevin Ollie is not re-signed). That is your true usable cap space on the free agent market; not some BS hypothetical trade that you dreamed up on your website, but true cap space. $10-$11 M for free agency. That's it. Not enough to go after Brand or Smith IN FREE AGENCY. Anything else, loser?

Dean and Morty, stop your stupid argument. You guys sound like little girls, and are junking up the comment box by saying the same things over and over again.

Now that that's taken care of, one of the things that is truly excellent about the Sixers lately is their defense. However, outside shooting is still a massive glaring weakness. And, seeing that Memphis is having a firesale down in Tennessee, what would people think of the following trade:

Sixers Receive:

F Mike Miller
G Kyle Lowry

Grizzlies Receive:

G Willie Green
F Jason Smith
F Rodney Carney
G Kevin Ollie
2009 #1 Pick

Would you do that if you were the Sixers? Would you do it if you were Memphis? For the Sixers, you gain that deadly outside shooter in Miller, who actually brings a whole lot more. You also get a potential PG replacement (if he develops) in Lowry. For the Griz, you receive Smith and Carney (both seen as young, rising talents...Carney also played at Memphis), a scorer in Willie Green, and $3.5M in cap relief next season in Kevin Ollie.

Thoughts.

I didn't mean the #1 pick...meant to take that out. Without the #1 pick, the deal would be:

Sixers Receive:

F Mike Miller
G Kyle Lowry

Grizzlies Receive:

G Willie Green
F Jason Smith
F Rodney Carney
G Kevin Ollie

Would you do it? Thoughts.

HOOPESHYPE had a M.Miller for J.Williams rumor tonight. If that happens, look how fast MIAMI turns it around. They could get Rose or Beasley in the draft.

Regarding a potential draftee: Anyone who saw father Stan Love play in 70's would have reservations about Kevin Love's pro potential. He's a nicely rounded college player with an Unseld-like outlet pass style but has sloooooow feet. Genes matter. Will have a decent career. Not a great one.

Sixers' streak is more the result of opponents' February boredom/weariness than scintillating play. Credit them for spirit (relatively speaking), not as a serious challenge to any contender.

Andre Miller, based on a string of solid rehearsals, is as good as gone before deadline.

Another clear reason NOT to trade Miller. This team has won 5 games in a row and just beat a top Western Conference team. They are 1 shooter and 1 power forward away from competing in the East and Miller is a piece that we must have.

The Most Overlooked Rookie in the NBA:
http://reclinergm.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/thaddeus-young-the-sixers-overlooked-rookie-standout/