Deep Sixer

Great defensive effort tonight. Really enjoyable to watch these guys get out on the break and destroy the Knicks.

Thad seems to get better very game. He's a completely different player from the guy I watched in the Summer League and preseason. Its either a confidence thing or this guys rate of improvement is off the charts- just like his ceiling.

With the recent wins the sixer's boards at realgm and philaphans are starting to get more active. It would be great to see some people here join in on the sixers talk.

Along the lines of what Marc said, we just finished our run of 10 of 12 winnable games- and we went 8-4 which is pretty impressive given how bad we had been playing entering this stretch.

This was almost like the run a young, talented Portland squad made earlier this year. They have kept playing nearly 500 ball since their run, and it will be interesting if we can likewise keep going now that the level of competition will be higher.

On one hand we may have infused this young bunch with the confidence for them to play above there heads, however it is often the nature of young teams to be streaky, and go through bad runs on the road, where we play 8 of our next 11 games.

I really question the timing and length of Mo's deal. Why now? And why only one year? I can think of 3 possible reasons for both.

#1
They signed him to a 1 year deal now because Ed plans to stand pat at the dead line and, like Marc points out, the schedule gets much harded and there is a good chance this team could drop quickly in the standings. Signing him now means Ed doesn't have to justify signing him later after the team tanks. And Mo deserves a shot to show what he can do with the players Ed brings in.

#2
Ed is planning to blow up the team tomorrow(today now). He is trading Miller and anybody else that brings in a good deal. All of these players are BK's boys, do any of us really know what he thinks of any of them? If he blows it up the team tanks and again Ed doesn't have to justify signing Mo afterward since he's signed now.

#3
Ed Snider TOLD Ed Stefanski to make a run at the playoffs THIS year and to give up the cap space this off season if thats what it took! Snider has complained about the fan turn out and might think a playoff run will turn that around. Ed Stefanski might make a trade for a player that has a contract through next year to make a run. This would defer the cap space until '09 when Miller and what ever player he gets would come off the books. And Mo's contract runs out! Ed would still have his draft picks and $20 million in cap space in '09 plus Utah's pick and a new head coach!

What do you guys think?

#1 sounds about right. Add that doing the extension right at the deadline provides news to distract from any grumbling about our lack of moves.

Ed seems to be following BK's "three year plan." He has been pretty up front about his thought process, and hopes to make a splash this summer or during next season.

I don't think Ed knows who he will be able to get to help at PF or SG (it also depends on whether we use Young as aPF or SF.)

If we acquire another young player (say someone like Okafor) then Mo might be the right guy for such a young team. On the otehr hand, if we keep Miller and add a vet (say Brand or J.O.) then a higher profile coach might be needed to handle the vets 9and their ego's)

The actual player we land likely is none of those listed- and probably is still a mystery to Ed. Either this summer or next years deadline should be very interesting, and be the defining move of the Stephanski era. this signing was just a delaying measure until then.

Still don't get the timing of the Cheeks extension - I suppose it could be a smoke screen either way - but all in all it's pretty immaterial.

A one year extension? Whatever.

Dear god, it must be sad to be a Knicks fan.

What does Isiah have to do to get fired? At this point I'm convinced he could literally drop his pants and deposit a turd directly on the court and he'd still show up at the next game.

He's sure doing a good job building team unity:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/nba_experts/post/Zach-Randolph-and-Nate-Robinson-need-a-nap;_ylt=Av5c3vzH3ptTpaBDjsPK8Ou8vLYF?urn=nba%2C67744

If Ed does have any intentions to deal, this was certainly a good game to go into the trading deadline with.

Have not posted here in a while, but a few things I've noticed in the past week or so:

1. Thad Young can REALLY play ball. Complete package (that will need fine tuning). PLays D well, can shoot, can board, can run. Best of all, this kid is very smart. He knows how to play basketball, not just score or dribble or pass, board, etc...

2. Iggy's shooting is getting much better, most especially his outside shot. Give him an inch and he's becoming one of the guys in the league that can burn you.

3. Miller is SO solid. I would love to see him stay at least through next year to make everyone around him that much better.

4. For next year, is anyone else seeing Iggy as our SG, Young as our SF, a new PF, and Dally as our C? That's a very athletic lineup with Green/Evans/Smith/Carney/Williams coming off the bench.

5. Do we make a move (even a minor one) to compete with Atlanta and NJ for the final 2 spots, or do we just stand pat? Atlanta got better with Bibby, and NJ is still solid w/ Carter and Jefferson, and Harris coming into the fold. Would like to see this team make the playoffs because whomever they play, they're going to play then TOUGH.

The Knicks look HORRIBLE. Just awful.

Thoughts?

Now that's my boys, They came back tonight had their track shoes on and just destroyed a team that's just looking for the neariest exit. I'm really looking forward to the Sun's game I think that will be alot fun to watch.

Zarathustra: "At this point I'm convinced he could literally drop his pants and deposit a turd directly on the court and he'd still show up at the next game."

Didn't his team essentially do that last night?

After the stinker they laid against Minny, I was surprised how they just unloaded on the Knicks. I bet Zach Randolph probably have nightmares of Reggie Evans the night before they play.

I don't have a problem with giving Cheeks a one-year deal, especially now that there is no option involved. Now, it is up to Ed to get more talent here.

I think he could go a long way to doing that with acquiring Artest at the deadline. I don't think this team will make the playoffs this year without adding him. Also, when he opts out of his deal, you could be looking at $15.4M to $17.4M in cap room and still having A. Miller's deal as a chip to play.

Now that San Antonio has made its deal, I think it is now down to Denver and Philly for Artest. Stephen A. said it doesn't look like the deal with the Nuggets to get Artest will go through, so it could be Philly's deal to do with Big Ed wants to do it.

Will you guys be disappointed if Big Ed doesn't make a move at the deadline or are you ready to play the rest of the year with what we have and wait to the summer to do something with only $10M in cap room?

How about the sixers trying going after Nick Fazekas , he just been waived. Nick was on the sixers draft board. I think the sixers schedule is easier than before the all star break. Except for Detroit, all the other games the sixers can win. Heck, they can beat Detroit too!

Good post John D. On the money on all counts. Keep it up.

I think they have to at least trade Green.

Although it's possible to leverage $10M of cap space into a more expensive player through S&T you still need the threat of a big outright offer to compel teams to deal.

Most S&T's operate on the premise that a team WANTS to get rid of a player (or at least doesn't want to offer what the other team will) and in exchange for giving that player an extra year on their contract will take some kind of comp in return.

See Rashard Lewis, etc.

At $10M I don't see much beyond Calderon. No way Atlanta passes on that for Josh Smith, which puts the Sixers in the position of basically just trying to pull off a normal trade for Smith. Same for Biedrins. Arenas will want a max contract. Etc.

If you have room for a max contract that means you can threaten to overpay or in the case of a UFA just sign the guy outright.

"Look, I'll make Smith a max offer which you won't want to match. He'll walk and you'll get nothing. Instead, how about you let me have him for less than the max, but I throw a draft pick and young player your way?"

It doesn't work if I can only go up to $10.

Of course, that doesn't preclude us from trading for a guy his team may want to dump for financial reasons, say Kirilenko, but it does weaken our position in free agency.

I would love to have Calderon here! He would be a perfect fit with this team. I can't see Toronto letting him walk though. We would have to trade for him. I've been saying for weeks to trade Sammy and Lou Will to Toronto for Calderon and Nesterovic and 1st round pick. Everybody seems to think I'm nuts. I think Toronto could use a C and Lou Will would back up TJ Ford. They would match up better against Boston and Detroit too. Philly gets their PG of the future and a first round pick. Nesterovic would be an expiring contract(if he takes player option, he should) next year. Its a win for both.

I also like Biedrins. I'd give up Sammy for him too. GS has the $10 million trade exemption too. Maybe include Evans to help their bench.

BUT, nothing looks to be happening before the deadline so maybe in the off season Ed will work some magic!

JoeDoc, #1 seems right.

John D. well said, agree with all you said and do believe adding a PF to the current team is the most probable move Eddie makes between now and next years trade deadline. If things not going well by next years trade deadline, then big moves happen including no Mo.

JoeDoc, enjoy your participation here but why talk about players that we have zero chance of getting like Calderon. Put yourself in the other team's place before lusting over a Calderon...no way Toronto lets him go. Concentrate on names that we have a credible chance of getting.

Still believe the players most likely to be traded are LouWil (no way Eddie wants to give him a Green/Korver or worse contract when he is a player struggling to find a position), Carney for obvious reasons, Jason Smith because he has upside and at best will be a 7th player over next 2 years for Sixers. Not saying I would want to give any of these guys away, but you need to trade some talent to get talent.

John,

We don't agree much, but I'm with you on your last post.

Don't see Calderon happening, he fits Toronto perfectly, though they won't like his new contract.

Those 3 youngs guys are the most likely to get traded, but for me it would be in this order:

1. LouWill
2. Jason
3. Carney

I gotta get all the Lowry-haters riled up again - I think Lowry would be a great fit for this team. If they were going 1-on-1 on a playground, LouWill definitely wins, but Lowry's skill set would be much more valuable than Lou's FOR THIS TEAM.

LouWill's problem is that he's trying to be like Andre Miller, when he should be trying to be himself, and just try to score as much as possible when he's in there. When he's the primary ballhandler, the Sixers usually can't get anything going until there are only about 10 seconds left on the shot clock (the later into the shot clock you get, the lower your FG% becomes - you've allowed the defense to get set). He's looking to distribute, looking to get the ball to the guy with the best chance of scoring, but the guy with the best chance of scoring is usually him. If he's got the ball, he should consider himself the first option, and only pass it off if he can't create a good shot for himself. Make no mistake, LouWill is no Iverson, LouWill doesn't turn it over and usually takes good shots.

Jason, because I don't think he contributes as much to this style of play as Carney does. If Carney's on the floor, after every rebound, blocked shot, or steal, immediately afterwards, the Sixers should try to get him the ball, but not force anything. The guy is so fast...

But I don't wanna undervalue Jason's contribution - they're not sexy, but his outlet passes, screens, and ability to take his guy from the basket have been a huge help. It's amazing he can still help out even though he's splattered all over that rookie wall.

I agree with Sixerzguy's comments regarding Lou. I know he's smallish for a 2 and is NOT a 'stout' defender but geez the guy can score!

I absolutely agree that he should stop being the playmaker and just score. Last time I checked, scorers were a valuable commodity in this league. I know it's not optimal to be one dimensional but.....

Willie Green is not my lover
She's just a girl who claims that I am the one
But the kid is not my son
She says I am the one, but the kid is not my son

Sixerzguy, I would do Lou for Lowrey (with adjustments for salaries to work) unless Lou can be packaged with others to bring the PF this summer.

By the way, Eddie struck a very astute deal with Mom...didn't disrupt young guys progress and bought more time on very reasonable terms.

....and remember: Lou Williams is still just a boy.

He would be like a junior in college this year, no? Wonder how high he would be drafted if he was in the 2009 draft? Top 5?

I'm not saying he's a star, but I like him as a sixth man- instant offense off the bench...with his nasty big bad brother 'Reggie Evans' compensating for Louie's defensive deficiencies. Nice bench pieces for next year, etc.

Darnell, I am not against keeping LouWil at all, but he seems to be a pound-the-ball for most of the shot clock, undersized, much less talented Iverson to me.

He has picked up his defense notably due to Mo getting on him.

Would only move him to improve our team.

Anybody want Delonte West?

Ahh, leave it to the Knicks to reverse our fortunes in a single night. Why Isiah is still in charge is a mystery none of us can understand. That's as close to sympathetic as I can get for NY fans. (Even I could have figured out that Eddy Curry and Zach Randolph are a bad duo together in a starting 5 - does everyone remember the analysts hyping the trade on draft night? Shame on them...).

I don't see a position for Lou in this lineup either. I'm convinced he won't be our future PG, great scorer, but who do you sit to start him in Philadelphia? I would use him as a chip, however, does he get much notice in the league?

A couple of observations; How does Biedrens [a restricted free agent ] feel about a dog like Webber stepping right into the starting lineup!! W hen the top teams trade #1 picks to win this year [S.Ant.,Dallas,ETC.] does that weaken them 2 years from now when we are ready to compete. The abuse of J.Kidd by the western conf. p.g.!s began last night [C.Paul, 31pts., 11 ass. ] I hope his ability to run a team is enough to make that trade work. Is H.Warrick playing the best ball of his career since the Gasol trade or just putting numbers up on a bad team.

I wouldn't mind seeing Lou embrace the Iverson-esque undersized 2-guard role and replace Willie Green, who just doesn't do it for me. As configured, they are not an untalented bunch, even though they're really young. And I would *hate* to lose Jason, who just hustles his face off. You need those kind of glue guys on a winning team, and he is going to be one, with some development.

That's the thing. I think the Mo extension has to do with developing the many useful young players they already have, rather than blowing up the whole thing and starting over again, probably with lousy castoff veterans making waaaaay too much money for what they bring to the table. I would far rather see them pick up value free agents and develop their own young players than tack on some unmotivated rich guy (Vince Carter, anyone?) just to provide name recognition and fill seats. I know Ed Snider wants more seats filled, but winning will cure all attendance problems, and the way to win long range is to develop good young players and pick up bang-for-the-buck role players (like, say, Reggie Evans), and let them grow together.

Then, when you're a consistent playoff contender, you make the big deal to put yourself over the top.

Quick fixing with expensive free agents who almost never pan out rarely works for a team as young as this, and as far from serious contention as this. Any big splashy move Ed Stefanski would make at this point would be for the sake of making a big splashy move and distancing himself from the Billy King era, not necessarily for the sake of improving the team.

(In other words, keep Andre Miller!)

John:

You say to be realistic and ignore Calderon, OK, but then you turn around and say you would trade Lou for Lowry "straight up"? That's not realistic beyond their salaries matching up.

Have you compared their time in the league, their stats, what they've proven? Trust me, at the current time, Lou is worth more than Lowry. If we're going to trade Lou, I would use him to move up in the draft, or in a sign and trade if someone wants to throw money at him this summer.

Honestly, I don't care for either Green or LouWill as a starter. One absolutely needs to be traded. The other needs to learn a role and function as a reliable bench player.

No thanks to Delonte West. Much prefer Willie Green.

The only way you trade Williams is if he needs to be included in a deal for a stud PF. Otherwise he's so young and has so much upside why would you think of making a lateral move for say Kyle Lowry?

The Sixers could go a number of ways with Williams. He could develop into our future point and it looks like he might have another year to learn under Miller. Or we could go out and get a bigger combo guard and run Lou and said combo guard at the same time.

He's so young there's no telling what will happen.

I'm still hoping for Randy Foye...anyone else?

It seems a way to make a trade around trade restrictions is to add a 2nd deal. Read recently that Chicago wouldn!t do a Gasol trade because they refuse to pay a luxury tax.They need a big 2 guard and have 2 restricted free agents, one of which they won!t be able to sign. IF the Sixers offered a Carney for A.Griffin trade to occur afterward, would the Bulls do a Gordon for Giricek and our 2010 and 2012 #1 picks.I don!t think A.Miller is going anywhere, even over the summer. We would lose cap flexibility but still have a 2009 #1 plus the Utah pick.Gordon is a career 41% three pt. shooter and A.Miller could guard the bigger 2!s. A Sam,Thad,Iggy,Ben, and Dre lineup could be something to watch. Would the Bulls do it?

By the way, for the sign and trade doubters: Player A, a restricted free agent goes to his team and says "I don't want to play here and will not sign a long term deal to stay. Team B will give me 13 mil a year but they need 3 mil in extra space. Go make a deal. If you don't I will sign the one year deal and be unrestricted next summer and, you'll get jack in exchange."

I could easily see this working for Josh Smith, and even Calderon if you offer him enough money. Would Toronto really want to pay 18 mil to 2 players to split time at PG next year? They might be forced to drive a hard bargain in a sign and trade - I would give back Lou for Calderon in a sign and trade. Hell, the Sixers might be forced to contend with this issue with Dre.

Another trade idea....

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=273~207~2777&teams=16~20~20&te=&cash=

The Sixers could also toss in a 2nd round pick. Giricek isn't going to get much playing time with Philly so they might as well get something for his expiring contract. McCants looked good the other night for Minny and could give us the 3pt shooter that we could use. McCants has 1 more year on his contract after this year, but Doleac's contract expires this year and he's included for that reason and to get the salaries to match. I expect the Sixers would have to include a 2nd round pick as well.

I agree that we need a PF, but with the style of game that Philly is now playing, I don't see any PFs available that would fit in and help out this year, except for possibly Artest who could fit the style of play. It sounds like that rumored deal is dead, and that's not the worst thing since the Sixers are showing some great energy and effort and they shoud be careful who they choose to add to the mix. I personally think that Artest could fit for a few months and then would likely opt out. What I didn't like about the Artest rumor was that we would be thin at the 2/3 bench spots after giving up Green and Carney in that rumored deal.

If the Artest deal ended up happening, then this McCants trade idea would help fill the void at the 2/3 bench spots. If the Artest deal does not happen, then McCants still helps fill a need for a 3pt shooter.

One final thought...if we do not end up trading Giricek, then I'd have him shooting 200 3pt shots in practice each day. We'll need him to fill some need and that makes the most sense.

What do you guys think about dealing Giricek & a 2nd rounder for McCants?

Willie Green is honestly a better version of McCants. And why give away our cap space for a guy who should be coming off the bench?

The one running bigman I can see is at Kansas right now. Darrell Arthur can run all day and has serious post game. If I'm Ed S. I try anything to get him this year.

What has happened to Jason Smith? Talk about hitting a wall...now he's missing layups and dunks?

Personally I would rather have Foye than McCants. McCants might be a better shooter, but Foye would be the perfect combo guard for this team. He could start along side Miller and play the point when Lou comes in. He is a good defender and is able to guard taller players because of his strength he has for his size. In Villanova's four guard rotation he was the one guarding opponents power forwards, which included players like craig smith and noah. Plus Foye might not be the better shooter, but he still has a pretty nice shot.

I started to write "nice win last night", but i geuss really what i should say is "entertaining win last night", oh and thank the knicks for not showing up. anyway, it was good to see the boys throw a good old fashioned whooping on someone for a change.

Geeksavant - agreed. its good to see more level headed people around here.

By the way, as im sure you all know i love calderon and i'd love to see him here. And Morty, thanks for explaining to some folks how it is possible. That and i think i've read toronto has another PG in europe who is apparently pretty nice himself. But, I'll say that ultimately i dont see ed going after another pg that agressively. I think the bottom line is he really likes Andre Miller(as does Mo), and (feeding into geeksavant's post) he wants him to be around to help shape the core for one more year...I may be wrong but thats my gut feeling at this point.

KM:

I'm not putting aside my pennies for a Calderon jersey, and I've come take take ES at his word that he really likes Miller. However, a sign and trade deal of Miller for Calderon would give Toronto a 10 mil expiring to create cap space, a PG to team with Ford, and give the Sixers a younger PG you can still you can "win now" with, the same as Miller. Plus we would still have our cap space for another free agent. A guy can dream, can't he?

No way Minny trades Foye without getting A LOT in return. He's part of the core that they are going to try and build around.

In the proposed Giricek trade, the difference in cap space this offseason is that McCants would still have 1 more year at a little under 2 mil. So we would lose 2 mil of cap space (compared to Giricek's 4 mil which would be coming off) but we'd gain a 3pt shooter in McCants. I'd make that deal.

let's hope the sixers don't sign that nickle dimer shaggy williams. he wouldn't be worth 15 cents on a dollar. he brings new meaning to the term

Hey Morty, reason I consider LouWil for Lowrey is you solidify your back-up PG position, give Lowrey a chance to learn from Mo and Andre, he fits this team with tough nosed defense/trapping style, and he doesn't hurt you at the gate either.

You may disagree with my logic, but there it is buddy.

I am also OK keeping LouWil, seeing how he develops, and/or using him as a chip for a better upgrade.

My told you so moment...6 weeks ago I recommended Carney for Hakeem Warrick...who would you rather have now?

John:

That's all well and good, I have nothing against Lowry. And I won't argue whether he or Lou fits this team better. It's just that as a even swap, you're not getting enough value for Lou. He's worth more than Lowry based upon both comparable play up till now, and upside as well. Chances are, you'll never sell tickets to see Lowry, you might for Lou.

We need value in every trade, so if Memphis wants to throw in their #1 this year or next, OK.

However, I see you're not foaming at the mouth to do this trade like Dean is, so cool...

John, agree with your logic, but would rather use L.Will. on draft night to get a bigger defensive backup who may start in the future. If L.Will. gets us a 20 to 30 pick [use Utah pick too if necessary ] it could bring us K.Weaver[M.Cooper type ] or Westbrook from U.C.L.A. if he comes out.

John(3:55am)- Please read my whole post not just the parts you would like to pull apart!

I said "I can't see Toronto letting him walk though. We would have to trade for him."

I know Toronto likes him. Thats why I suggested a trade. Also, if you did a little more homework you would know they have a young PG in Europe that is supposed to come over next year. That would give them 3 PG all looking for PT. Trading Calderon to fill another hole would just make sense if they are that high on the kid from Europe. They can't unload TJ because of his injuries. And your statement "Concentrate on names that we have a credible chance of getting." is just another way of saying a player another team don't want. They don't want him for a reason!

John, This is second time you suggested my ideas are flawed when in fact you didn't read my whole post or didn't have all the info. I'M NOT STUPID! Please stop treating me as if I am! I'm not saying my ideas are right on but they DO have a little thought behind them. I'm not looking to get Oden in a trade!

Morty/KM

Sorry, didn't realize you already explained to John the thinking on Calderon. I should have read all the posts before I posted mine. Thanks!

I'm ok with Cheeks getting another year. He is developing the young players and they are learning. I don't think Cheeks is a good strategic coach, I'm not sure if it's what he has to work with, but he seems to consistently try to have a 3 guard a 4.

That's the primary reason why we lost to Minnesota, although Sammy being Ill didn't help. When the Sixers are getting outrebounded- it is because the team is too short. The bottom line is the team is missing a Power Forward and it is screwing up the lineup as a result.

Thad Young is a 3, not a 4. He's a great young player with a tremendous upside- really good instincts, but he can't handle Zach Randolph down low, and he never will!

You have to match-up size in this league and that means playing Amundsen and or Shavlik Randolph. It's outrageous that Cheeks didn't play them last night in the blowout - Amundsen played a little the night before and looked fine.

Lou Williams should not be traded- he is already putting up great numbers even though he is being forced into playing as a 2 instead of a 1. Why is Kevin Ollie running the team and Lou running off the ball? Last night Lou played 20 min. had 4 assists and 13 points. That translates to 26 pts. and 8 assists for a game!

Williams is a 1. Igoudala is a 2. Young is a 3. We need a 4 that is better than Evans, or Jason Smith the way he is playing right now. Dalembert is a 5 without a backup. This is why the team can't compete night in and out. They come up against teams with 2 good big men and they get outrebounded.

We can't trade Miller until Williams is ready to run the team at the point. We can't trade Evans without getting another big who can play the 4 or 5.

I don't see any 4's out there that I feel confident will make the Sixers into a contender. Josh Smith looks like the best bet, but that's because he's young- which is a good fit for the Sixers. O'Neil can't do it, and I'm not sure I want to trust that Brand will come back healthy.

The team will have a tough time making the playoffs as they don't have an inside game. Teams that -prevent them from running by taking care of the ball and executing will kill them.

I have a vision of Beasley and Young as our version of A.Jamison and C.Butler. After the lottery we will know who has the #1 pick.Assuming it is either Miami,Minn., or Seattle,all teams yhat have a superstar or soon to be superstar [Wade, Durant, Jefferson ] I [E.S.] would offer the following proposal; Sam, J.Smith, L.Will. and our 2010 #1 for MIAMI [J.Will., S.Parker [expiring] and the #1 pick ; MINN. [Ratliff [expiring] and the #1 pick; SEATT. [Watson,Wilcox,and #1]. With our pick[ 12 to 18] I would take Thabeet or Hibbard. With the cap money I would sign Diop, [if available] plus Azubuike, Miles, etc.[ whatever pieces needed to fill out our roster. Is a platoon of Diop and Thabeet better than Sam? Finally, if you are those teams would you consider this proposal?

Beasley is a pure talent, there's no doubting it. But did anyone see the game last night against Nebraska? He spent the majority of the game pouting on and off the bench. Very Derrick Coleman like. AGAINST NEBRASKA! I can understand having a bad game against say UNC and sulking a bit cause he's the guy on that team, but Nebraska?

Thabeet right now is behind offensively where Dalembert was coming out of college. He's a defensive force though and could develop.

As for trading up or down in the draft, impossible to tell. Miami unloaded lots of cap with O'neal and Walker this year. And I believe Ricky Davis comes off the books this year along with Marion. So they might not even care to trade for cap space. I think they'll be a major player this offseason.

For this team I'd still rather draft Arthur as a running big man over Beasley who most people think will be more of a small forward, Carmello Anthony type in the pros.

Theo:

I have not seen Beasley play so can't speak to him per se. However, we are at a decent place in that our young guys seem to all be unselfish and intelligent players with their heads screwed on right. I would like any future acquisitions to be line with those qualities. As much as I loved Iverson, when the worm turned, it turned big time. So no more gunners (we already have Willie) or pouters. I know they are the exception rather than the rule, but Detroit is not a bad model.

Some Willie Green hate on this board : )

The way I view Willie is this: Like a lot of you have said, he should be used as a spark off the bench for 20-25 minutes a night.

Maybe I'm off on this, but when I see Willie Green, I see Tony Delk. Yes, that Tony Delk who would light it up off the bench night in and night out a few (many) years ago.

In terms of Louuuu...I think his outside shot needs the most work of any aspect of his game. He has an uncanny ability to drive to the hoop and finish, but put him 18ft out, and I just dont trust his shot. Either it needs work, and he's our SG of the future, or give up the outside shot and have him work on his dribbling and passing skills and make him our PG of the future.

Or, maybe he'll never "get it?"

I touted Jason Smith on this board a while back and I must say, he's making me look like an idiot right now. He seems lost when he gets into these garbage time situations. Last night, we had a sequence where he missed a dunk, we got a turnover, he got fouled (hard) and couldn't finish off of Jamal Crawford, then he missed two at the free throw line. Unacceptable play. He should have had 4-6-points off of that swing, and he had zero. He looks like he gets flustered too easy.

I'll say it: I would rather see Calvin Booth out there AT THIS POINT backing up Dalembert/Evans/Young than Smith backing them up.

As always, Thoughts?

Hey Theo, check out the draft express articles on L.Hudson. He sounds like an A.Toney type.[EXPLOSIVE SCORER FROM A SMALL COLLEGE]He is averaging 7.8 reb. and shooting 41% from three pt. land. He!s from Tenn., wonder if he is a relation to Lou Hudson, I think he also was born in Tenn.Arthur has the perfect body [Mcdyess type] for the 4, but he seems to coast through games at times.Could be he is not getting the ball enough.

Suede,

That's exactly what I think is wrong with Arthur. Kansas' offense always runs through Chalmers and Rush first, then trickles down to the bigmen. One reason his numbers are down a bit is Wright's not there to play high low with him. But I think he's a perfect fit for what the Sixers are doing in running all game.

You said the magic words with me...Andrew Toney is my favorite Sixer of all time. Even though he only had 4 healthy years (he's still pissed at the organization for not rehabing him correctly). I've never seen this Hudson kid play though. This draft is filled with combo guards. I'd have no problem getting one in this year's draft.

Morty, I see Beasley as a more athletic version of D.Coleman [ without the 20 missed games per year].His ability to post up and shoot the 3 is unique. I think [barring a healthy Oden] he will be better than anybody in last years draft.That being said, Theo has a point about his attitude at times.After the N.C.A.A. tournament, if K.ST. gets in, they should, we will have a better read on him. We need a Duncan type player; offensively and rebounding wise I think he can be that; defensively he is not close.

Let's see...who's more valuable?

A starting PG (Lowry) for the next 7+ years, whose main strengths lie in running a team and playing excellent defense or a scoring G off the bench that's too small (by no fault of his own) to play D on the opposing team's 2.

What's not realistic about the Lowry for Lou trade, Moishe? Please remember that Lowry has been basically learning on his own and doesn't have two incredible tutors like Andre Miller and Mo Cheeks to help him like Lou Williams has had. Imagine if Lowry had Miller's tutelage for the next 15 months and Cheeks' help ongoing. He'd be light years ahead of where Lou is right now with respect to the PG position.

This is not a slight to Lou Williams - I like him as a scorer and think he will be successful in this league in that role, a la Vinnie Johnson. But the fact remains that a young starting PG is more valuable every time than a scoring G off the bench (unless your team has a stud starting PG already).

I envision more of an Amare Stoudemire type power forward on this team rather than Duncan. Mostly cause running bigs are easier to find, but also because those are the types of players we've already amassed here.

I've said it before I think but there is a player who Beasley really does remind me of. Glenn Robinson. Physically imposing in college down low and with a really nice perimeter game. Neither turned into a power forward.

As for last year's draft, the guy I think will outshine Oden and Durant is going to be Horford. I can see him becoming a 20-10 power forward in this league. Shame he's playing out of position.

As for the Williams/Lowry debate. I like Lowry. I think he should've stayed in school and learned how to shoot. That being said, I think Williams upside far outweighs Lowry's. As it stands Lowry's skills seem like that of Eric Snow. Williams could be something special.

I may be in the minority, but unless L.Will. becomes a starting p.g. in the league I think Carney is going to be a more valuable player. Dean, The problem I have with L.Will. as an off the bench scorer is the matchup problem down the other end.[A. I.?] V.Johnson,D.Curry,M.Mcgee types gave you scoring along with avg. at least defense down the other end. If L.Will. is the next Isaiah, then lock him up, if not use his future money [5 mill ?] on a Lowry plus ?]

By the way , that was Isaiah as a player, not a coach or g.m.

Theo, read an interesting comment on Horford. I also think of him at the 4, that!s why I thought J.Smith might be available. But, I think I read this ojn E.S.P.N. rookie rankings, that what is impressing the Hawks management is his speed getting up the floor. Makes me wonder if they keep him at the 5 and do what we are attempting.

Lots of good thoughts but I think everybody is missing the point on Ed. The more I see of Ed the more I think he will be no better than Billy. Maybe a whole lot worse.

The two moves he has made, trading Korver and giving Mo a one year extension, are not the moves I would expect of someone who knows how to get this team back on the right track. Korver has absolutely been a positive acquisition for Utah and they got him for nothing. How can this give anyone confidence Ed knows talent.

One of Billy's biggest shortcomings was not being able to pick a good coach when Larry left. Well giving Mo a one year extension tells me Ed really doesn't have any better ideas about who should coach this team. Not good! Is this really a vote of confidence? No! This tells Ed doesn't really know if Mo is the right coach or not. Isn't that what GMs are supposed to know?

Giving Cheeks a one year extension is more of the same and not going to get this team to be a legit contender. There is talent on this roster and If Mo was a better coach he would have had this team better prepared when the season started. Its not like the Sixers are in the West where all the good teams are.

However, I love the progress the rookies are making and it looks like there is a legit core of young players. I guess some of the credit for this has to go to Cheeks but I don't see enough from him to have confidence he is the right coach. Is this going to change in a year?

The fact that Ed hasn't blown this team up tells me Billy was on the right track. In fact, other than the idiotic Korver trade, isn't Ed doing pretty much what Billy said he was going to do? He has basically validated Billy's 3 year plan.

Is that what this team needs? All Ed has done so far is demonstrate that he doesn't really have a better plan than Billy. Wouldn't it be ironic if the only reason Ed picked Ed was because they have the same names.

Dean, you continue to argue past the point. You're arguing which position is more valuable, I'm arguing over which player is more valuable at this moment in time. In fairly equal playing time in their respective careers, Lou has far eclipsed Lowry's numbers.

That said, such a deal will never happen because of it's patent lopsidedness so I'll give up the point, and let people propose it unopposed from now on.

Rebcalae:

Free Billy King!

Cheeks deserved the ONE year extension. It's not like ES locked Cheeks up for 10 years. He's still got to produce with whatever new pieces we get in the offseason.

But the fact that Cheeks had this team playing well after the Iverson trade last year and this year we are sniffing playoffs, when we all agree we are two starters from being seriously thought of in the East, is a testament to the job he's done with this group.

Once and for all, the Korver trade was necessary. We traded a guy who can't do anything but shoot 3 balls on a team that commands double teams from the low post (what he's doing in Utah). Something we don't do. Honestly, Korver and guys like him are the NBA's version of the DH. Guys who offensively can produce, but defensively shouldn't even be in the league. Except in the NBA they have to play defense too. so get over the Korver deal. He was a nice player, but not a difference maker.

For me ES gets a B- thus far in his reign. Mainly cause he's only made two moves, one being clearing space with Korver and getting another pick (something billy King was fond of giving away). And forcing the issue with young players to see if they can play. It's not a coincidence that once ES took the job Thadd Young started playing more and more. Let's give him at least a year before we start calling him BK.

Rebc., I think getting over the loss of Fisher was as much the reason for Utah!s slow start as the addition of Korver being the reason for the recent surge. My hope on draft night is we trade for a 2nd rd. pick and draft Calathes, then the Korver loss will be forgotten.As far as Cheeks, 3 years wouldv!e scared me. This, I think, is a perfect move by E.S. If by the end of next year, with our roster just about set for a title run, he doesn!t like what he sees, then he gets the coach needed to finish the job.

Last thing about BK...I don't think he was fired for his direction or plan. It is the same as Stefanski's in theory. But I don't think Billy King was capable of implementing it. Just the litany of player King wanted to get in past drafts and was unable