Deep Sixer

To all the posters on Deep Sixer "hating" on hometown Kyle Lowry, Cardinal Dougherty's own:

When the overhyped Mike Conley was in at point for Memphis tonight, the Grizzlies were outscored by 20.

When Kyle Lowry was in, the Grizz outscored the 6ers by 6 pts.

15 pts on only 8 shots from the field and six boards. 3 for 5 from the arc. Lowry is tough and I'd take him anyday on the 6ers.

Big games for Sammy & Iggy tonight. Jason Smith seems to be hitting the rookie wll hard. Carney not getting much burn tonight for some unknown Mo reason. Team looked strong tonight. Oh yeah, Rudy Gay is an absolute keeper.

That Thad steal, lob ahead to Miller, toss up to Iggy and thunderous finish in the 4th is what's gonna start putting the fans back in the seats. Much more fun to watch than a grind-it-out Spurs/Pistons game or something like that. Liking these Sixers more and more every game.

This was a strange game. In the first three quarters, Iguodala was red hot and the Sixers scored easily against non-existent Memphis defense. (Memphis was playing defense like the Sixers were earlier this year.) In the fourth, the Grizzlies finally took out their non-defenders (neither Miller nor Gay played in the 4th that I can recall) and came back behind two guys, Lowry and Warrick (18 or their 20 points). Meanwhile, Iguodala missed all his jump shots (water seeks its own level), and Mo put Andre Miller back in at least 2 minutes too late. I know Kevin Ollie has the amazing 25-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio this year, but there's no way he should be playing in crunchtime. It was funny to see Andre Miller stand up on his own when the lead was down to 8, as if to remind Mo to put him back in. It was Andre M. who put the game away with his rebound basket and subsequent lob to Iguodala.

A couple other comments. Jason Smith seems more and more lost on defense every time I see him. It's probably why he doesn't get more than 10 minutes a game. Also, I happen to think Thad is a good on-the-ball defender (quick feet, quick hands -- 3 steals tonight, including a crucial one in the 4th), but he also gets lost on switches. Warrick scored most of his points in the 4th on Smith and Thad.

Finally, Rudy Gay has an impressive offensive arsenal, but he plays zero defense. It's no coincidence Iguodala has averaged 26 ppg against Memphis this year. I even heard the ESPN guys (Breen and Van Gundy) joking about Gay's defense later on.

Thad's production at the 4 spot, both on offense and defense, has made a world of difference to this team. They are finally getting production from that spot and has someone who can finish around the rim. Thad also makes the team much more lethal on the break.

It will be interesting to see how he fares in that spot against some of the West teams. He'll probably get taken to school, but it will be a good learning experience for him. I don't think many of us realize how great a job the kid is doing at that spot and he won't be 20 years old until July. That is crazy!

I think if Danny Ferry doesn't do something before the deadline, then Lebron James will go beserk. I think they could be in a position to overpay for Andre Miller.

Yep, I'm still of the camp that if Ed can get expiring deals, a young prospect and 2 no. 1's (the price has just went up after seeing what Dallas would be willing to give for Kidd) then I might pull the trigger. Otherwise, the $10M next year in Miller's expiring deal plus the player actually still being able to play should be attractive.

My teams that could make a move for Miller in the week, I think, are Cleveland, Orlando and possibly Miami. If we could somehow get Delonte West and Chris Wilcox from Seattle in a 3-team deal, then that would help this team going forward too.

Lowry played an unusually high # of minutes tonight - I wonder if he was being showcased to the 6ers? Also, what do you guys think of Young? I never get to see the games, but he seems to really be progressing. I had heard someone compare him to Josh Smith, but Young never blocks a shot - surprising for someone reputed to be so athletic. Do people think that he could be a star?

Thaddy will be a star in 2-3 years and a superstar before he's 24. That's whats up. Whos your daddy?, Thaddy's your daddy.
I think the Mavs are getting beat on that trade and I think they're really sick in the head for wanting Kidd that bad. Why don't we try to go after Harris, 2 first rounders, and cash while Devin George has this trade on pause. If this trade goes through, I think the Nets future looks better than the 76ers and that makes me sick. Prove me wrong Philly so I can love you again.

First time I've seen Kyle Lowry play in person since college (and I do not like Villanova in the least).

I'm extremely impressed - remember, he's basically a rookie. His handle is excellent, his defense is tenacious, and his outside jumper clearly has potential. He was 4-4 from the line (not one even touched the rim) and 3-5 from 3 pt. land (again, every make was a clean swish). How anyone here can say that he will only be a backup in this league is crazy.

Oh, and to someone who asked the question yesterday sarcastically....I'd trade Lou Williams for Kyle Lowry straight up in a second. There's no question that a starting PG with these attributes is more valuable to a team every time than a scorer off the bench - watching Lowry run the offense vs. watching Lou run the offense is like night and day. To go a bit further, I might even consider not trading Andre Miller this season; having Lowry exposed to Miller's craftiness at the position could accelerate his NBA learning curve greatly. Bottom line, he's clearly a starting NBA PG, and we should all want him in a Sixers uniform for years to come.

Great win again last night - Go Sixers!!

dermo,

I don't think he'd ever become one of the NBA's more easily recognizable, mass-consumption stars. He's athletic, but he doesn't use that athleticism for highlights. He's very old school in the way he plays. You ever seen those old grainy 35mm-like film of basketball, or old CBS footage? The players try to score... can't describe it too well... in a non-ESPN highlight type of way. Get in the post, do a little move, put up a little floater or a hook, or an up-and-under. He plays like that. He's almost like a little Hakeem Olajuwon in how he tries to score in a half-court set, it's beautiful. It's winning basketball. In 3 years, he's a 20+ ppg scorer, I don't see how it could not happen unless the coach just doesn't go to him, or he's too much of a turnstile on defense (which he can be quite often against quicker forwards).

A high-flying all star? No way. For some reason, he likes to stay low to the ground. An important piece to a future championship? Definitely! But he needs to work on his defense.

I grew up in Philly left after high school at Dobbins Tech, I'm now living in the warm and beautiful white sandy beaches of northwest Florida. I see that you all in Philly are packing heat right now also with the Sixers, my boys are smookin hot right now.

Thad's got game
Miller is a keeper
Iggy......well he's Iggy, he's gona do what Iggy's has to do.

Agreed! Lowry can run a team and does a lot of things well! Imagine him and Lou Williams as our PG combo 2-3 years from now. Lowry will control the tempo, and when he takes a rest, Lou comes in off the bench and ignites the offense in spurts... Lou Williams is the perfect 3rd guard off the bench.. him, Carney, and Smith should be our bench of the future. Get a legit 2 guard starter with an all around game and back to the backet PF to go along with Iggy, Thad and Samuel and our team is an elite team in the east in 2 years... If we can snag Lowry, we really only need those 2 pieces to make it out of the east in about 2 years... with 10 million in cap room this year, 10 million next year and 3 first round picks in 2 years, this should be no problem if Ed is making wise decisions...

Dev. George just saved Dallas!s season.Datruelife, Taking back Stackhouses contract; 2 or 3 more years at about 10 mill. is probably why N.J. GOT 2 NUMBER #1 PICKS. Don!t think E.S. would do that. If he took E.Snow or D.Marshall [2 yrs at 7 and 6 mill. each ] off Cleveland than he gets more in players and draft picks.Dean, he looked good, but still, for now, like him off the bench as a part of our trapping unit.

Dev. George just saved Dallas!s season.Datruelife, Taking back Stackhouses contract; 2 or 3 more years at about 10 mill. is probably why N.J. GOT 2 NUMBER #1 PICKS. Don!t think E.S. would do that. If he took E.Snow or D.Marshall [2 yrs at 7 and 6 mill. each ] off Cleveland than he gets more in players and draft picks.Dean, he looked good, but still, for now, like him off the bench as a part of our trapping unit.

The Thad-Miller-Iggy play was one of the better ones I saw this season. I alsdo liked the turnover to Thad/fast break in transition/ThunderDunk he had in the first half. He plays defense, he rebounds, he's has some vision and all three are clearly reflected in his PER. Thaddeus Young is something special, the more I see of him the more I'm impressed - get those #21 Jerseys ready people!

I don't understand how Memphis can have so many point guards on their squad. We were talking about Kyle Lowry trades BEFORE the Lakers trade that sent over Jarvis Critt. Lowry would be a nice fit here and certainly welcomed by Philadelphia with open arms, if we were to acquire him, it could let us place more offseason focus on other areas like the mythical starting PF we want. Memphis is to PG as Philadelphia is to swingmen...

Once again, ladies and gentlemen - SAVE MOE!!!

I wouldn't mind having Lowry on the team but I wouldn't give up a whole lot to get him. If Memphis wanted an expiring contract like Ollie/Giricek/Randolph and the Utah pick we got in the Korver deal, then I would do it. But I wouldn't give up any of our good young players like Carney or J. Smith.

Well, maybe Carney!

Dan.C., they consider Crittenden as much a 2 as a 1 , according to an E.S.P.N. article I read.Nets are trying to get M.Miller if Kidd trade goes through; Magliore, Nachbar, plus; I hope Kidd TRADE DOESN!T HAPPEN.

Dan.C., they consider Crittenden as much a 2 as a 1 , according to an E.S.P.N. article I read.Nets are trying to get M.Miller if Kidd trade goes through; Magliore, Nachbar, plus; I hope Kidd TRADE DOESN!T HAPPEN.

I think for the memphis trade to work, Memphis would have to give up Lowry, Miller, and Warrick.

How tempting would that be? Ship out Green, A Miller, and Carney

I think Ed Stefanski should call Dallas since this Kidd trade got blocked. They could work out a deal for Miller. Something like:

Dallas gets:
Miller
Booth/Amundson

Philly gets:
Harris
Diop
Jones
and the 2 first round picks

Dallas gets their PG. Gets to keep 2 of their players(Stack,Ager). And can keep the $3 million. I know Eddie Jones said he won't take a trade but if you tell him they'll buy him out and he can then go resign with Dallas.(similiar to what they were going to do with Stack) He might go for it.
Philly gets a young good PG. 2 first round picks and more cap space.

Read that Cleveland is interested in lowry or JJack. JJack would be a great fit for less than it would take for A. Miller.

Lowry? I don't see him as an NBA starter. Spark off bench, similar to louWill role with different game. I still prefer LouWill.

I love the value NJNets will get for Kidd. I think agent will convince George to go. The Nets will be deeper and younger after the trade and could go further in the playoffs then Dallas.

Kidd trade makes you wonder what A. Miller is worth? Good Young player(D.Harris) & 1st round pick?

Joe Doc, Dallas prefers to keep Diop to battle those western big guys.

They're giving him up for Kidd. And hey they get to keep Stack and $3 MILL!

Stack supposedly will be going back. I think Harris & no.1 with Stack(released) is a more realistic trade. Harris could be our point guard going forward but I don't think they want A. Miller because of his defense. Kidd gives them a BIG point guard who will play nicely with their other scoring point guard. I don't think A. Miller fits as well.

we can throw in Booth if they want a big guy! LOL!

Best looking guy in the NBA.....

sfw,
you might be right. Kidd probably does fit better. I was just throwing out ideas. I hope the deal for Kidd does go thru. And I hope it causes another team to offer a great package for Miller. I would take a good young player and a pair of 1st round picks for Miller. And thats what it would take to get him too. Because any team trading for him now is in the hunt so their picks will be mid to late 20's. So I would definitly want 2 1st round picks. Or 2 good young players that have a possiblity of being starters here and a 1st rounder.

Lowry was a revelation last night as I'd read his stock had dropped. Looked like the keys to an engine for someone. Would play him over Conley, who takes forever to crank up a bad lefty J and is not as aggressive overall. As in college, Lowry handled, attacked, D-ed it up--even shot it pretty well. A lot of spirit shown as in 'Nova days. If Sixers could pry him away, he'd help.

Grizz was set back by atrocious 1st half Gay defense on Iguodala, who found comfort zone and set the stage. As an offensive player though, Gay can do it - great stroke.

Green's defense on Miller was pretty effective overall, as was the help. Miller wilted as game went along.

Up by only 6 with 3 left, A. Miller pulled it out with 2 clutch, veteran plays on consecutive possessions. He's earned big credit lately. But all-star? Seems many have forgotten 1st 10 games of season in the assessment, when he couldn't hit broad side of barn (from field or charity stripe) and had a poor TO/A ratio.

I'm sure Gay drove his college coach(UCONN) crazy. He was probably happy when Gay entered the draft.

After watching the Sixers win their 5th in a row and going 9-6 since January 15th I turned on the Warriors Suns matchup

Ellis, Bedernes(sp),Davis, and Pietrus are all Fa at the end of this year.The 1st three are going to cost the Warriors big bcks and they may not have much left for Pietrus.

I think Pietrus would look good as a Sixer As a warrior running the floor is a given as is atheletism He came from nowhere to block 3 shots last night that shows he knows something about defense

From Pietrus point of view besides the extra money the Sixers could give him he would be getting 30 to 40 minutes a game here instead of his 15 to 20 minutes in Golden State.

After watching the Sixers win their 5th in a row and going 9-6 since January 15th I turned on the Warriors Suns matchup

Ellis, Bedernes(sp),Davis, and Pietrus are all Fa at the end of this year.The 1st three are going to cost the Warriors big bcks and they may not have much left for Pietrus.

I think Pietrus would look good as a Sixer As a warrior running the floor is a given as is atheletism He came from nowhere to block 3 shots last night that shows he knows something about defense

From Pietrus point of view besides the extra money the Sixers could give him he would be getting 30 to 40 minutes a game here instead of his 15 to 20 minutes in Golden State.

Pietrus has already said he wanted to be traded. I haven't seen enough of him to make an evaluation but hey if you say he looks good.

Terry - Pietrus did look good last night. The guy takes defense seriously. However I wouldn't overpay for him and don't think he fits on this team now. He's a 40% shooter and he can't beat out Matt Barnes though he did just demand a trade. Even if we picked him up cheap, he would need to displace either Thad, Reggie or JSmith. I don't think he is an upgrade on Reggie and it would only hurt the development of the young guys.

He's a SG/SF though. Does he really fit on this team? Just more of what we have isn't he?

Only issue is that he plays same spot(2/3) as AI, TYoung, LouWill, WGreen........

Joe Doc, I guess great minds think alike......

I wouldn't mind having Biedrins though. He looks good. I think he averages 10-10. And he's only 21yrs old.

Boy. We keep going round and round. Probably every conceivable trade or player has been suggested on this blog.
Notice no more W. Green trades coming up lately.
Hopefully Ed S thinks out of the box and can come up with a creative upgrade(Young player and/or Draft pick) by the NBA draft.

No more Willy Green trades because nobody will take Willy Green! LOL! Just kidding! He's a good player, its just he belongs coming off the bench.

agree completely.......

Was at the game last night, and it was a very entertaining one. Gay's dunk was monstrous, and the Thad to Miller to Dre dunk was awesome as well.

Thad just does so much, with so little of his skills utilized, and no plays called for him. Wow, this kid is a star in the making. He just knows how to finish when he gets near the hoop, whether it's on the break, or half court. And it doesn't matter if some one is in his face or not.

Lowry made a good impression. If he can consistently hit the 3 ball like he did last night, as opposed to his 23% mark on the season, he'll have a lot brighter future in the league. He also could have had 1 or 2 more assists if he wasn't passing to Navarro, who flat out stinks. Still wouldn't trade him straight up for Lou, not a chance. You'd have to give me more back.

Mike Miller didn't make much of an impression, other than he can shoot the ball real nice. He got taken very badly by Miller on a nice spin move at one point.

A couple last observations. Andre Miller is playing incredible ball, really phenomenal. And Sammy is excellent at hanging around the basket and finishing dunks - he can pile up points that way fast. This is a skill set that will only be more valuble with more offensive weapons.
Morty and Moishe Recommend...

No surprises, you knew before the game the Sixers were going to win, and even when they got close in the fourth, you knew that it was just Memphis' time to make a run.

You also knew that Memphis would run out of gas and the Sixers would finish them off easily.

I think we need to keep Andre Miller around so Lou Williams can learn from him. Sixers are on a roll and Andre is a big part of that.

I figure we get another 2 easy wins after the all star break before the quality of the teams gets tougher.

Some of the posters here have no idea how to evaluate talent- these are rookies on the Sixers, of course they're going to make mistakes. They also are learning how to play in the NBA and are capable of making good plays.

If we could only pick up a stud PF in free agency, we'd be in very good shape. Should make a run at Josh Smith for next season.

I think Lowry would fit in perfect with this team. His gritty hard nosed defense fits the Sixers style of play. He is one of the quickest players in the league and a great on the ball defended. His buzzard beating layup shows how quick he is, I thought that he wasn't going to able to even get a shot off, but he made a heads up play by seeing the clock and getting the shot off early enough. He also rebounds extremely well for a player under 6 feet tall. I just feel his style of play matches perfectly with the style of which the Sixers are now playing with. Hes a player that always plays with a ton of energy and he never gives up and those are the type of players that I want to on the Sixers.

I like the idea for a Miller for Harris trade with Dallas, but what else would we have to take with it?
Would George fit in Philly? Would he come here?

sixerzguy:

Nice analysis of Thad's game.

trackboy1:

No one was hating on Lowry, simply noting that his stats showed a PG with a mere 2:1 assist to turnover ratio, and was shooting 39% from the field and 23%(!) from three.

He certainly played better than that last night as I noted. However, in extended playing time this year, last night is not the norm. His PER is 12.75 for the season, below average. Lou is at 16 by way of comparison.

Lowry would be a great story coming home to lead the Sixers, and he obviously has potential, but you're just projecting at this point.

Dalembert's lost in space too much for my taste; many non-effective "spurts." Hanging around basket and dunking off Miller & Iguodala lobs - a skill set? On a good team, he's a part-time, contributing frontline player who BK paid a king's ransome to keep.

Gola Gola:

In the NBA, being 7' and in the right position is a skill set.

And I didn't say that skill set makes him a star, just a valuable contributing part of a potentially winning team.

Had a thought while watching the game last night. Remember when Dalembert was at his best during his career? Playing against McDyess in the playoffs against the Pistons? What do you all think of possibly drafting Thabeet and moving Sammy over to the 4 spot? His skill set is getting better in that he's developing a jump shot. And he's always been a good finisher. It's an idea. And just think of the defensive possibilities with those two guarding the basket.

As for Lowry, he played well for the home crowd. But his point guard skills are more drive and dish than directing a team. Miller is really spoiling us with his point guard play. Who ever takes his place is going to have big shoes to fill.

Morty,

Agreed; it does take some positioning and timing. My impatience with Dalembert as a player is in his often being less than imposing on the D-end (despite favorable pub he's generated) due to concentration and/or wiles lack, and in his failure to develop any reliable individual post-up moves. He's an asset but I consider him tradeable.

Theo, No way Sammy DDDDDDDD at the power forward. However, if KLove comes this way. Sammy might cover some of the PF's in the league with Love covering some centers.

I saw Thabeet. very raw. a project. On offence, he & Sammy don't work. Neither has offensive skills and both have difficulty covering out on the floor. They just cover the basket.

They should try and trade to get Kwame Brown, he looked great last night. He has really exceeded his expectations and plays with such passion.

Well, I'd rather have Sammy playing against some of the so-called power forwards in this league than the legit centers. Just look at what Bynum has done to him this year. Made him look awful. Against Gasol though, who is a true power forward, Sammy looked good. I wouldn't be adverse to Dalembert moving or at least taking minutes at the 4.

Kevin Love is a hype machine. Don't think he's going be anything in the pros. He's barely 6'8, unathletic, can't run the floor and can't defend.

Kwame Brown is the best worst #1 pick of all time I think. Can anyone think of a more averagely average #1 overall pick? Even Barngagni has potential.

How about Shawn Bradley?

Kwame Brown! ahahahaha. he is sooo bad.

Gola Gola:

Agreed about Sammy's frustrating losses of concentration. It's enough to make me wonder if he over does it on the glaucoma medicine. However, we count on him too much at the moment, and with some more ballers on the team he drops down in importance, conversely making him a more valuable player.

Morty,

Thanks. Thad is quite an anomaly, isn't he?

Trackboy1,

On paper, the Hawks seem like they should be right up there with Toronto and Washington as one of the Eastern Conference's 2nd-tier teams, and they have what's seemingly a great core:

Horford
Josh Smith
Josh Childress
Joe Johnson

So why haven't they won more games? That gives me pause. And he's looked great against the Sixers, but what about other teams? And you hear something here, then something there about him being a headcase sometimes - you never want to hear that, because if you hear it once, you usually hear it again. And Seiko Smith bases his argument for Josh Smith over Marcus Camby for defensive player of the year based on his blocking ability only - he's a good writer, but he clearly didn't do his homework.

In terms of minutes, Camby's played about 1 more game than Josh. To equal Camby's output for the season, in Josh's next game, Josh has to get 340 more rebounds and 40 more blocks. Also, take a look at what Josh Smith takes OFF the table compared to Camby: In one less game than Camby, Josh has 85+ more turnovers, and 30 more fouls. Turnovers negate rebounds, so that makes it about 425 more rebounds that Camby has over Josh. Maybe there's something about Josh Smith's team defense that I don't know about, but in terms of numbers, Camby is well above Josh.

Franky, Chris Wilcox would be a better option than Josh. He doesn't block as many shots, but he turns the ball over at half the rate as Josh, rebounds more, and shoots well over 50% (vs. 45% for Josh) from the field. And would be much cheaper.

"... [Lowry's] stats showed a PG with a mere 2:1 assist to turnover ratio, and was shooting 39% from the field and 23%(!) from three."

Wow... not very impressive. However, he could probably benefit a lot from a year of tutoring from an established veteran like Andre Miller. If we can get him in a straight up trade where we give up somebody totally expendable (e.g. Carney), I say go for it.

sign and trade iggy for kirelenko and sign josh smith....

pg miller
sg 1st round pick...gordon?
sf smith
pf kirelenko
c dalembert
sixth man young

not bad huh? or just one big dream? leaning towards dream.

theo, Your right about Klove's athleticism. He is fundamentally sound in the post,can pass out of it and will probably hit the jumper. All qualities missing in most NBA players. Worst case, I think he can contribute for 18-24 minutes(similar to korver) in an area of need to the sixers(post offense). He also throws a great outlet for our break. I had my doubts initially but I think he will cut it. At 6'8" in college, he will be 6'9 1/2" in the pro's.

Moses, Sammy, JoshS & Kirilenko. One thing they have in common is no offensive post game. By the way: FO FO FO!

Anon:

If we wanted to do a deal, Carney is not a bad straight up match for Lowry. Both have potential, but have yet to demonstrate it over prolonged periods.

Dean's Lou for Lowry deal is extremely lopsided. If Memphis wanted to throw in their 1st round pick this year or next, then we're talking.

Sixerzguy:

I think the difference has to be attributed to PG play.

Another terrible high draft choice was/is Milici (sp). He looked really bad last night. Was he a Larry Brown selection when he was at Detroit? I know Larry, true to form with young guys, almost never played him.

sixersguy is a fraud and a liar

he has no credibility here anymore

yesterday he wrote that he looked up andre millers stats from his rookie year and besides feildgoal % they are almost exactly the same as kyle lowry's.

you can look them up for yourselves but i'm old enough to have watched dre in college and remember him being much better than kyle lowry. so i checked it out-------

hmmmmmmmmmmm those don't look like the exact same stats to me, not even sure those are in the same ballpark

dude why the hell would you lie, for what. and furthermore don't you have more respect for the others on this board than to b.s. us like that. as far as i'm concerned your a piece of garbage that has no business posting here.

Milicic and Bradley were and are awful. But they are #2 picks. That's Sam Bowie country. I'm thinking about #1 overall picks.

Here's my top 5 worst #1 overall picks...

1.Kandi Man
2.Kwame Brown
3.Pervis Ellison
4.Bargnani
5.Joe Smith

Kevin Love is going to be out worked on the board at the NBA level. His basketball skills are great in college. He's out working guys now, much like Tyler Hansborough, but with a softer touch. It won't translate I don't think in the league.

Didn't the Kandi man have one decent season in a contract year?

I would call Kwame the worst of those five.

I have an issue that's been bugging me all season. and I hate to bring it up cause I really like Mo Cheeks. But it's really infuriating to see his substitutions at times. For every great move he makes, like giving Olie some run last night at a crucial spot, he makes just a silly move. Like sitting Dala when he's got a serious hot hand. I know we were up 20 at the time, but let the kid play.

People have mentioned Dala has never had that WOW game. I'll argue he's not put in the position to even though he's shown flashes in halves and quarters. No reason to sit Dala midway through the 2nd quarter last night when he's just flat out killing it. He's done the same throughout the year with Thadd Young and Lou Williams. And it bothers me.

I saw something last night that I hadn't seen in two years of watching the 76ers -- Carney used his left hand to shoot after a drive to the basket. I actually had to rewind the play to make sure that he finished with his left hand and he did.

With Carney beginning to use his left hand and now concentrating on his defense, rebounding, and steals, the only thing he has to do now to get more minutes is to stop jacking those threes. Cheeks still yanks him when he gets 3-happy in a game, which is a good thing to see.

The price for A. Miller is sky high right now. If J. Kidd doesn't go through, they can have Miller for D. Harris and two no. 1's. Or give me D. Harris, Diop and a no. 1 pick, and I'll take that. Still, I think some team is going to panic and give in to Big Ed's trade demands next week.

Theo - That bothers me too. I've noticed several times that guys get yanked as soon as they get hot.

Also, Mo needs to start penalizing guys for missing the next play while they're arguing a call. Nothing burns me more than to see guys (cough, Dre) standing around talking to the ref while the game is still going on. So there was a bad call, deal with it and keep playing.

Datruth:

I would do that deal in a heartbeat. Are you kidding me, i don't even need Diop or the number 1 - I would do that deal straight up, Dean-style, baby!

Also, that was a nice move Carney made, and I guess I don't mind if Mo pulls him for a bad 3, but he didn't even get back in in the second half. It's nice to win, but we need to develop these young guys more.

Keeptheboardtrue:

that's a little bit harsh, no?

The Hawks do have some good young talent, but their problem is at perhaps the most crucial position: PG. Check out this motley crew:
* Anthony Johnson (the very definition of journeyman)
* Acie Law (rookie who is more of a SG than a PG)
* Ty Lue (see Law, but exchange rookie with veteran)
* Speedy Claxton (that's right, Sir Speedy and his $20 million contract is still in the league, stealing $$)

They have one of the dumbest GMs in the league(is it a coincidence that his initials are BK?). He will go down in history as the guy who passed on Chris Paul AND Deron Williams to draft Marvin Williams.

Put Andre Miller on that team and they'd easily be the 4th seed in the east, with a shot to move up to 3rd.

This is why I am not enamored with the idea of trading Miller. I definitely do NOT want to trade him for just cap space. I'd have to be really blown away by an awesome offer to be comfortable with dealing him.

I can see why Mo does it, wanting to get certain guys minutes in different situations and not relying on one guy, but when a guy is killing it, let him do it. It's so rare, especially on a young team.

I'm a huge Dala fan and the complaining is bothering me too. He's cut down on it in the last month, but it's still there. I think the entire team has some of that though. I think it's because the NBA is fixed and certain teams just get calls, us not being one of them. Lowry bowling over Dala last night with no whistle was just pathetic. The Celtics on the other hand get breathed on wrong and fifty-twelve whistles blow. Forget whistles...trumpets. And a parade of elephants and midgets doing acrobatics. That's how badly skewed NBA officiating is.

with all the talk of n b a all stars and those deserving not getting the call perhaps the comish should add three additional players and three additional minutes to each quarter or just add one more quarter either way it adds up to twelve more minutes to sell commercials hot dogs etc. and three desrving players more will get to participate. i wonder why noone has suggested this i heard more players should be added the problem was not enough minutes by adding three minutes or an additional quarter seems like a win win situation for everyone even the vendors and fans. JUST THINKING OUT LOUD pass this on to someone and promote this idea

Lowry is going to be an extremely effective PG in this league. His quicks, basketball smarts, and defensive prowess will be skills that some lucky team will be able to use in the starting PG spot for years to come. If you didn't see that last night, then you don't know basketball.

To the contrary, Lou Williams will be a scorer off the bench his whole career. He doesn't have a good enough handle (or the mentality quite frankly) to play the PG, and he's way too small to get starters' minutes at the 2.

Lowry for Williams straight up. I'll take a starting PG for the next 10 years over a Vinnie Johnson (at best) type any day of the week.

If the Dallas / Jersey trade does not go through, don't be surprised to see Dallas move Harris anyway. What kind of message did they send to him by saying "we would rather have a pg on the downside of his career than a young stud player". Harris wouldn't want to stay there much less sign a contract extension. I for one hope that the Sixers do not try and make a move for him by letting Miller go. Did you hear Ed Snider last night? He is upset that we are not in the stands giving him more of our money, I'm sorry, I mean supporting our team. The Sixers are trying to make the playoffs at least to get the young guys some playoff experience. They are not going to trade Miller and break up their chances. If they do that now, the team will not make the playoffs and they probably will end up with a bad pick at 10 or 11. Let them do their thing and see what happens in the playoffs. That way we can be excited about Sixers postseason play and Snider will get a little more change in his pocket. Everyone goes home happy!

What about a Vinnie Del Negro type?

I really like Josh Smith of the Hawks. I understand that he will be a Restricted F/A this summer. Could he and Thad play together in the same front court? I love Thad, but Josh Smith is a beast! Throw in Sam and you have a nice athletic front court. Let's beat the Celtics in the 1st round and make some noise!!

Sobering stat of the day...

12 games over .500 in the East gets you the 3rd seed.

12 games over .500 in the West gets you an early summer.

Case:

If you can go back to a couple of the blogs last week or the week before where we had some pretty lengthy discussions about Josh Smith. As a Sixers fan who lives in Atlanta, I love Smith, but the I think the chances are slim and none that we could get him because I just don't see the Hawks trading him or letting him walk. Others on this site disagree with me on that point, but that's where I stand.

If we get a new 2 guard in the future and Iggy stays at the 3 then that blocks Thaddeus Young in the future. I think we can all agree Thad is probably not the starting Power Forward for the future so what are we going to do? My opinion is to get that Starting Power Forward this summer and then move Iggy down to the 2 guard. That opens room for Thad at his more natural position for the future.

Thanks Derrick. Appreciate the feedback. It just seems like the Hawks have been "re-building" since Dominique retired. I assumed the Hawks would botch up the situation and Sixers fans would reap the benefits. I hope the Sixers make the playoffs, I am jonesing for a block party at the Wach! Lots of talent walking around outside!

Tormented:

Great point.

Trader Dean:

You miss the point. Anyone can see that Lowry had a nice game last night, and extrapolating from that game, that he certainly has potential. But if you are talking about a actual real life NBA trade, Lou's value is way higher than Lowry's. Lou has shown he can accomplish more up to this point than Lowry. This is reflected in their PER stats (maybe you don't give PER any credence?). They are the same age, and have had roughly the same amount of PT in the league.

Now if you want to argue that Lowry has a brighter future that is one thing. But teams make trades based on current performance. And today, a Lou for Lowry trade "straight up" is lopsided. I would not necessarily be opposed if Memphis wants to throw in a first rounder in one of the next two years protected for the top 3. But "straight up" we are being robbed.

BB:

Another great point. I read that Snider article as well, but did not connect the dots like you did about Miller.

keep the board moronic,

1. Seek therapy. This is just a board.

2. I don't wanna get into a Dean-Morty name-smearing smackdown with you, but if you insist, bring it. But you gotta bring more than calling me a fraud and a liar. The numbers I got were per minute numbers, something John Hollinger and other basketball stat geeks like to use when looking at stats. Since you couldn't adequately attack my analysis, let me help you out - the biggest weakness of what I posted is that numbers don't encapsulate the whole story. So you were an Andre Miller fan way back when? What did he do exactly that made him better than Kyle Lowry now?

Just in case you're gearing up for some rant about what I said about Josh Smith, let jump in there before you talk some more worthless junk: yeah, right now, Josh Smith's numbers could be better, but at his age, it's still really obvious he has much, much more upside than Chris Wilcox, and I think it's worth a risk - getting Chris Wilcox is playing it safe, but getting Josh Smith, that's the bold championship move.

3. I take back what I said about wanting a Dean-Morty smackdown, let's REALLY keep the board true, let's just talk basketball.

I wouldn't have a problem doing a Lou Williams for Lowry straight up trade. Don't get me wrong I am a huge fan of Lou, but at this point it seems like Lowry has lot more assets needed to become a complete player than Lou does. They are two different styles of guard, Lou is an offensive minded guard and Lowry is a defensive minded guard, so its hard to compare them exactly. Right now I just feel Lowry would fit better with this team. No knock on Lou though...

Theo - I hear you that its frustrating to see top teams getting favorable calls. But its also true that guys who complain alot get noticed by the refs and will get the crap end of the stick more often. So my point is: the way to deal with a crap call is not to get up the the ref's face. He is not going to change his mind anyway, and may in fact make a call just to spite you later on in the game. The way to deal with it is just to deal with it and play on...anything else can only hurt your team and hurt you in the long run.

Thats my rant of that day.

Morty, yep, I am projecting on Lowry, mainly because his minutes have been up and down all season. Not sure why the Grizz drafted Conley, 'cause he's nowhere near ready.
I love Lowry off the bench, and like him as a starter, but only if you have a big 2 guard. Ya couldn't play him and Sweet Lou together which is a negative. But he would be nice with Iggy at the 2, and he would sure be nice when trapping.

This stuff about sending Andre Miller to Dallas is absurd. There's an argument to be made that Dallas shouldn't be trading Harris for Kidd STRAIGHT UP. See Hollinger, the TrueHoop guy, etc... Harris is young, a fantastic defender, and has been an unsung catalyst for one of the most consistently good teams in the entire league.

Miller is old, a poor defender, and based on the stats from 82games nowhere near as good at running the offense as people here seem to think.

Dallas would have to be out of their mind to trade Harris for Miller, much less Harris PLUS key bench guys AND 2 draft picks.

As for the other Kool Aid drinkers in the room, namely the people who want to anoint Kyle Lowry on the basis of one game... you do realize that the NBA regular season is 82 games long right?

Having a single decent game against one of the league's most porous perimeter defenses doesn't compensate for 51 games of mediocrity.

In the game with Washington, Roger freakin' Mason had 15 and 4 against us - bring him to the Sixers!

I get that's Lowry's a Philly guy... but settle down.

He's a backup.

Dalembert must go. He is the weak link - do not get caught up in his numbers - please.....That $10M must go somewhere else. I foresee another late lottery pick this year or maybe a low 20s if this crap keeps up. Why are they winning? I want Derrick Rose. He is the next Chris Paul.

Teams make trades on many things, potential being a major component of many deals. To sit there and think that deals are done only based on "current performance" is naive. What about deals that are done for cap space (a la Pau Gasol)?

No, deals are done for many reasons, and most (if not all) are consummated when two teams with different needs can help each other. For example, the Nets would like to rid themselves of some cap space and bring back young talent; hence, they're trying to move JKidd for essentially Devin Harris, DeSagana Diop, and 2 first round choices.

Lou Williams might fit better with some teams than Kyle Lowry. For example, Memphis has invested the 4th overall pick (and $5M) into Mike Conley. To have Kyle Lowry on the team playing better than Mike Conley is detrimental to (a) the team's overall development (since Mike Conley is the PG of the future) and (b) to Mike Conley's individual development. Furthermore, Memphis has installed the Suns' offensive scheme into its gameplan. A quick SG (Lou Williams) that can finish with some of the best young players in the game is better for their team now and in the future than Kyle Lowry.

On the other hand, one of the Sixers' 3 main needs is finding a PG of the future that will be the guy for hopefully 5-10 years after Andre Miller leaves. The team (as both Mo and Ed have stated repeatedly) wants a PG that focuses on running the offense and plays tough, hard-nosed defense. Kyle Lowry fits that bill perfectly. He fills a much bigger need on this team than Lou Williams ever will as the first guard off the bench.

Hence, Lou Williams for Kyle Lowry straight up is a great deal for both teams. I hope that wasn't too hard Moishe.

You have to keep in mind these guys are so young. So I can see them losing control sometimes. They've been better about it in recent weeks.

As for Lowry...have you all lost your minds? Do you not remember Lou Williams single handedly bring the Sixers back int he 4th quarter against Portland down 20? Williams can be special and is just as young as Lowry.

Kyle should've stayed at Nova another year at least. He's very athletic and puts out max effort. But he can't shoot, even if he did magically hit 2 wide open threes last night. And he can't run a team, even though you saw him knife the lane and drop the ball off. A Williams/Lowry deal would be so lopsided I'd have to stop watching this team in protest.

I don't understand why people are so quick to judge Lowry. He is basically a rookie this year. Last year he played a total of ten games. In his first game he had 10 rebounds in 28 minutes. He also went on to hit a game winning buzzard beater in one of those 10 games. If he didn't injure his wrist last year, he could have been in the running for rookie of year. I would be interested to see him in a different situation, one not stacked with point guards. For a player that hasn't even played a full season in the NBA yet, I think it is way too early to say that hes going to be a life time backup pg.

sixerzguy, as derrickh mentions, give the Hawks a real point guard, and they'd be tough.
Wondering what they'd give up for Miller?

I also like Chris Wilcox as an affordable 4 who can score. However I like Nick Collison much more though. I think he'd be the enforcer Sammy needs to be next to. He's a legit 6-9/6-10 with some bulk to him. Someone mentioned Sammy at the 4, and that's very, very interesting. I'm betting Sammy wouldn't mind some minutes covering power forwards instead of covering the Dwight Howard's, Bynum's and Yao Ming's.

Morty, I am projecting on Kyle Lowry. His minutes have been up and down all year. I think he can be a player with consistent minutes. Conley looked like a deer in headlights. Lowry is a very nice 1 off the bench. The jury is out on him as a starter, but next to a taller 2 guard, I think he'd be solid. But he couldn't play next to Sweet Lou though, so that limits options a bit. They'd run like the wind together, but would give up tons of pts. to big guards.

This was just reported on espn. The sixers turned down a potential deal of Lou Williams for Kyle Lowry. Ed said his reasoning for not pulling the trigger on the deal was that he was afraid that "Theo" would stop watching the sixers out of protest.

That report is not confirmed. Really Morty blocked the deal. He's got a "no Lowry clause" in his season ticket package.

Why'd my name get quotes?

Exactly when did the terms "skill set" & "bigs" become part of the hoops vernacular? WAY OVERUSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Theo:

I calls 'em like I see's 'em. I'll remove my put when Memphis throws in their '08 or '09 first rounder.

Lowry for Lou! Memphis' GM would say yes, and hangup the phone before ES could come back to reality. Later, he would be found wandering FDR park, walking backwards and saying "stupid stupid stupid."

Kwame's gettin' killed here but he made 3 interior passes for buckets last night (5 assist total in 20 min. as opposed to Dalembert's 0 in 38) that were impressive for a big man...and he IS a big man. Doesn't cover Sam's ground but if you forget the #1 draft choice history and expectations that came with it (MJ's anyway), find his motivation button, and extend his PT a little, I think he could grow and be useful in the meantime. Built like an oak, not easy to get around. Career stats comparison w/Dalembert:

SD g 389 min 26.3 pts 8.4 rbs 7.8 DOB 4/81
KB g 393 min 23.9 pts 7.6 rbs 5.7 DOB 3/82

I'm not advocating for Brown coming here; just adding a perspective on his value.

And now to head off any "smackdown" repercussions, sixerzguy, I will pronounce that Kyle Lowry is a fine young man, I liked him at Nova, I hope he succeeds in the NBA and what a great story it would be if he came home to be the Sixers PG of the future.

I'll trade Dalembert for Kwame, "straight up."

kidding kidding.

By the way, Kwame's skill set is great for a bigs of his size. In fact his bigs' skill set is way underrated. I would take his skill set over the skill set of most other bigs.

Big up, Kwame!

Kwame has no heart and does not like the game. He is a paycheck player. I would like to see Jason Smith a lot more in the last 3rd of the season.

Just a note - Jazz are 17-3 with Korver in the lineup - just saw on ESPN - didn't realize they were doing THAT good, but that goes to show you - a low post presence, a shooter and a good PG with a decent bench and some good, smart coaching will win a lot of games.

My prediction - Jazz in the West Finals again with a decent chance of going to the NBA finals. Phoenix trade will hurt more than help. Spurs seem to be in a little trouble, but will be the team to beat if they are healthy. Lakers don't have enough shooters. Dallas is going to be tough, but the Kidd trade will hurt them in the long run (Diop is their only real shot blocker).

'bout Kwame: My problem with him are his "points" over the last 5 games: 3, 4, 2, 0, and 1. Ok, against the Knicks, he had 10 points 6 games ago. Last game, 1 point in 20 minutes, against the stellar D of our interior defending presence of Sammy, Reggie, and Jason. Where's that Gerlach moron when you need him to put up dumb posts?

Jason Smith unfortunately seems to have hit a wall. He's a rook, bound to happen. Anyone notice he seems to shoot on the way down instead of the apex of his jump shot?

As for Kwame...the guy is bust as a #1 overall pick. He's a decent option at power forward/center. Nothing remarkable. And he's out of shape. So he's stealing money. but so did Scott Williams. Difference being Williams wasn't #1 overall in his draft.

I think they should send Sammy and Ollie to Toronto for Calderon, Dixon, and Nesterovic. This trade should work for both teams. Toronto gets a true center and a back up for Ford with an expiring contract. Philly gets their PG of the future in Calderon. I know Nesterovic has a player option for next year but that just means the Sixers will have 2 expiring contracts in the $8-9 million range(Miller, Nesterovic) in the off season and a little over $10 million in cap space. They would have 3 of 5 starters for next year:
PG-Calderon
SG-Iggy
SF-Young
PF- ?(Player=Miller + Cap space in trade)
C - ?(Player=Nesterovic + cap space in trade)
Plus a bench of Lou Will, Carney, Evans, and Ja. Smith. Plus the draft picks we have. This could be a team that challenges in the East next year. And the team would be young enough to be together for a decade. IF it works!

J.Doc, wait till the summer, Calderon can leave even if you trade for him.He will test the market.

"He will test the market."

And I would throw max money at him.

Calderon is a restricted FA. He can't go anywhere unless the Raptors let him.

It's basically in Philly's court as they will likely be the only team with enough cap space to make a decent offer.

Somehow I can't see Toronto matching Calderon at $9M per when they're already locked into paying that to Ford for the next 3 years (with no chance to move him because of the injury risk).

In other words, it shouldn't take a max offer to get Calderon. And it certainly wouldn't take a max offer to keep him if you traded for him.

Morty and Dean, lets see if you both could agree on something: scenerio ; Memphis loves L.Will, E.S. doesn!t think L.Will. can be a starting point ,would rather keep A.Miller or sign Calderon this summer to start.E.S. likes the idea of Lowry joining his trapping unit off the bench; plus he has a scoring 2 off the bench he can!t trade [W.Green ] E.S. says, swap 1st round picks this year , ours for yours, and the deal is done.Would both of you do it?

Zara. , thought he was unrestricted.

I love how everyone wants to trade Sammy now. Do you people realize that we have waited 6 fargain years for him to develop. At this rate, in a year or 2 his contract will look like a steal.

Memphis wouldn't do it. Suede, as I said earlier, I'd do the deal straight up player for player. So yes, I'd take the swap of #1s as well.

Suede,

No, he's restricted.

If you're a first round pick you become a restricted FA after your fourth year in the league.

But undrafted and second round guys (like Calderon) become restricted FAs after 3 years.

It's the same reason Lou is restricted this summer.

I don't know exactly when the rule was put in - probably around when Arenas and Boozer slipped away for nothing after their second years.

Thanks Zara. , I picture L.Will. being a Barbarosa type, E.S. seems he wants more of a defensive mindset. A Crittenden/L.Williams backcourt off the bench would be fun to watch for Memphis.

I thought Calderon was unrestricted too. But if he is a restricted free agent, thats all the more reason to trade for him. Less chance of him getting away.

The Greek- Yes, I want to trade Sammy now! His stock has never been higher. He makes over $10mill/yr and is signed for 3 more years. If we can unload that contract and get back Calderon. I would jump at it.

Delembert/Miller or Nesterovic/Calderon ; I don!t know, J.Doc , rather stay put.

Yeah but then we will need to find a center who can rip 10 boards and block 2.5 shots a game. You have to figure that will cost at least 10 million right? If the nets can get rid of Jason Collins then surely we can get rid of Willie Green right?

J.Jack on the market, he would be perfect off the bench with L.Will., Portland has a numbers problem, wants draft picks [Utah pick? ] Wonder if he thinks he is better than he is, wouldn!t want to come off the bench.

Suede- I like Calderon over Miller because of their ages. Calderon is only 26 yrs old. And Nesterovic would just be a bargaining chip in the off season. Similiar to Miller, an $8 million expiring contract. Hopefully with those 2 contracts, the $10 million in cap space, and our first rounder, we would be able to fill the starting PF and C positions.

One more thing! I think they should trade Miller to a contender before the deadline. I know thats not a popular idea but I would do it out of respect for Miller. He was traded to a losing situation last year and never complained, he's been named in trade rumors since he got here and hasn't said a word, he's playing for a losing team and hasn't complained one bit, Mo has sat him down for almost entire 4th quarters so the young guys could get time and nothing. Not one bad word about the team or the coach. Kidd would have had a stroke if any of that happened to him. He deserves a shot at a title on a winning team. Many of you guys talk about how free agents view this team when they are making a decision on what team to go to (i.e.-sitting Webber instead of buying him out). I think the Sixers would get bonus points if a free agent knows the team will try and send them to a contender if things don't work out.

The fact Calderon is a restricted free agent changes my mind about aquiring him, but not at the expence of Sammy. I cringe when I say this, but next to D.Howard, he may be the best center in the east. Toronto is making a playoff run, doubt they want K.Ollie possibly having to play 35 minutes a night if Ford gets hurt again. Any trade for Calderon begins, probably, with L.Will. plus, I would think.

I would give them Lou Will and Sammy for Calderon, Nesterovic, and Toronto's first rounder.

We talk about A.Millers value ; expiring contract next year, helping the young players, and just being a very good point guard. But you can add to that list that he gives E.S. A fallback position. If E.S. likes Calderon, or D.Rose or Bayless, and he fails to acquire them, its nice to know Dre is in the fold.

Suede- I agree its nice having Miller. He definitely helps the young guys. But I think we should trade for Calderon now. Thats just one less hole to fill. We won't have to worry about IF we can sign him in the off season. We can match any offer since he's restricted. Miller can then be used in a trade to fill the PF or C position. And we could get a decent guy in the draft for either position(Love,Hibbert,etc.). I just think this team needs big bold moves, not just a tweak here and there!

J.Doc, I don!t expect a major move at the deadline because E.S. has 30 more games to see who is expendable.To bring in a young center and wait 2 to 3 years for him to develop would set the team back. I think Sammy is almost at his finished level [13,11, 3?]He is good enough to win with in todays N.B.A.. After the west coast swing, a few weeks, we will see how good we really are. If L.Will. can play the point then we have Dre!s successer; I would rather not create another hole at the 5, when we already need a 4.

I don't think L. Will can be a starting PG in this league. And I guess you could say I have one of those fantasy sports "man crush" on Calderon. His numbers are impressive. I also don't think Sammy can be the starting C for a championship team. He gets man handled by bigger C's like Howard and Bynum. And he don't have the skills to go against the likes of Duncan. I'm not suggesting a rookie C would be the answer just a piece to the puzzle. If the trade was done, Miller's and Nesterovic's expiring $8-9 million contracts plus the $10 million in cap space could get us a veteran at one of those positions(PF,C) or more young starters and just add a savy vet to the bench.

And I agree with you. I don't see any big moves made before the deadline. I just like to play GM on the computer!

I would sign Diop to back up Sam for the big centers.

suede:

Is that proposal a trap? Agree? It's like the wings of a butterfly in chaos theory, who knows what else would ensue!

But seriously folks, I would say you're getting closer, and it would depend where each team's respective pick ends up.

The thing is though, Dean is talking past me. He wants to argue that Lowry will be a more valuable piece going forward, a better PG. I am not debating that point, don't feel like it's a debate that can really go anywhere.

But what I am trying to get across, and I think some others are on the same page (""theo"") is that at this point in their respective careers, Lou has vastly out performed Lowry, and that to give them an equal trade value based upon their performances doesn't add up.

Anyways, as long as I don't get accused of "making sh*t up" I'll move on.

Last night's game was a perfect example of how poorly Cheeks does at putting balanced lineups on the court. In the critical first half of the 4th quarter, he had Ollie, Evans and Young on the court together. That's 3 players who basically contribute almost nothing on offense (I love Thaddeus, but at this stage, his offense consists of dunks and putbacks). Naturally, this is when Memphis cut our lead from 16 to 6. It is hard to understand how Mo does not see what is so glaringly obvious. (Incidentally, what the hell is Jimmy Lynam doing as assistant coach? Can't he say, "Hey Mo, this lineup can't possibly work!")

I will be relieved next year when Stefanski presumably brings in a coaching staff that is not outgunned most games.