The trade proposals that our amateur GM’s make on this blog continue to draw tremendous interest. We’ll look at some of the proposed trades and try to answer some of the questions posed. (By the way, if anybody wants a personal response to any comments, the best way is to email - mnarducci@phillynews.com)
Item: Dean, a regular on the blog, has proposed this trade with Memphis
The Sixers receive Mike Miller and Kyle Lowry and Memphis gets Willie Green, Kevin Ollie, Jason Smith and a 2009 first round pick.
Response: If I’m Memphis, I wouldn’t do that trade. If I were the Sixers, it would be done in a split second.We know the Sixers like both Miller and Lowry, but so do many other teams. It wouldn’t be surprising if at least one if not both are dealt by the trade deadline.
Memphis would be receiving an expiring contract with Ollie, the potential in Jason Smith and a guard in Willie Green who really wouldn’t fit into the Grizzlies plans.
Lowry brings toughness and could develop into a top defensive player, but his offensive game is still a work in progress.
Miller is bordering on all-star status and if he played on a better team, he might get consideration. He played last summer on the U.S. National Team and it wouldn’t be surprising to see him in the Olympics. He is one of the best shooters in the league, but he can also create his own shot.
Having him at the two-guard and Andre Iguodala at the small forward would be a good combo. It’s just that Memphis should get much more for him, although the same was said about Pau Gasol.
Item: After pointing out that the Sixers have outscored teams, 87-49 in the fourth quarter during their four-game win streak, one reader asked about the differential in bench scoring during the streak.
Response: The Sixers bench has outscored opponents, 118-68 during this streak. The only time the bench scoring was even close came against Dallas, when the Sixers reserves held a 22-20 advantage.
Item: Joe Doc proposes a three-way trade among the Sixers, Golden State and Cleveland. The Cavs would get Andre Miller and Calvin Booth, Golden State would receive Drew Gooden and Willie Green and the Sixers would acquire Ira Newble, Brandon Wright, Patrick O’Bryant and a first round pick from both.
Response: There is logic in this deal, but if I were the Sixers, I wouldn’t go near it. If I’m giving up Andre Miller, I want more than a couple of expiring contracts and a young power forward such as Wright, who may never develop a back to basket game. And the first round picks will be past the midway point. For Miller to get traded, I’ve said it before the Sixers need a quality player back. That leads us to our next item.
Item: Not only wouldn’t I trade Miller by the deadline, but would think about beginning talks to extend him.
Response: While Miller would like to play for a playoff team, he has been enjoying working with this young group. And Miller, while not one to seek or enjoy attention, seems taken back by all the praise he has been receiving lately. He seems almost embarrassed, but also appreciative. A point guard who knows how to play the game is a precious commodity and as I stated in the paper last week, maybe the best team for Miller is the one he is on.
Item: Dean had another trade proposal that was interesting, but one I wouldn’t do if I were Ed Stefanski. Here is the proposal:
Sacramento gets the Sixers 2009 first round pick and Utah’s conditional first rounder that it owes the Sixers along with Jason Smith, Kevin Ollie and Rodney Carney. The Sixers would get Ron Artest and Beno Udrich.
Response: While there is no questioning Artest’s talent, he has had too many blowups to be considered reliable. The Sixers have done a good job of bringing in character players who aren’t head cases. Artest simply can’t be counted on. Udrith is probably a better than solid point guard who has really hurt the Sixers. He had 15 points – all in the second half and eight assists when the Kings won in Philadelphia. When the Sixers won in Sacramento, he had 19 points and six assists. Another intereseting proposal, but one we wouldn’t do.
Item: A person named Theo wrote that Andre Iguodala has the potential of being a special player.
Response: We totally agree. Iguodala has taken many hits, mainly because of the contract demands. If that is taken out of the mix, look how much he does on a nightly basis. And his defensive contribution shouldn’t be minimized. Sure, there is plenty about his offensive game that has to grow, but this year he has become more comfortable with his outside shot. The handle is a work in progress, but it will continue to get better. It’s the opinion here that Iguodala may be among the fans one of the more unappreciated players in Philadelphia.
Item: Iguodala mentioned that Wednesday’s game with Memphis could be a trap game.
Response: It sure can and the Sixers have to watch out. It was stated here that winning four of five on this homestand would be a success, but now with the four in the bag, nothing short of five will do.
That’s because Memphis will be playing the second of a back to back games and traveling to Philadelphia after hosting Sacramento.
What is a little worrisome is that the Sixers have been fielding a lot of questions from the media recently about their playoff run and how well they have done recently. Keep in mind, the Sixers haven’t accomplished anything except to put themselves in a position to keep playing meaningful games. The Memphis game will be a test to see if the Sixers can stay focused and not get caught up in all the positive press they have been receiving.
Comments (143)
Marc:
I would only be in favor of a short term extension with Miller, say, 2 years. With an older player one can never be sure when he will hit that wall. Miller is 32 now and it is hard to imagine that he could be part of a championship quality team in 3-5 years from now.
Furthermore, as has been noted many times, his defense is less than ideal, and his 3 point shooting is non existent on a team that lacks that quality.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I would look to move Miller around the draft. At that time we may be in position to draft a point guard, trade for one or trade for the PF we need.
All that said, if ES is able to obtain a stud veteran PF without moving Miller, my calculations could change.
Posted by Morty | February 12, 2008 8:30 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 20:30
Like I said Marc, my first choice is still to move Andre Miller by the deadline. We just differ on our views re: this subject.
However, if E.S. chooses not to do so (or even if he does choose to do so for that matter), I'd try to do the Mike Miller / Kyle Lowry deal first that I mentioned above. Basically, the Sixers' cap space returns to what it was pre-Korver trade (around $6M under the cap) after the season. Plus, with Mike Miller and Kyle Lowry coming here, the team has clearly addressed the outside shooting issue AND might also have a young PG to step in for Andre Miller when the time is right.
If this occurs, the Sixers could then focus all of their draft and trade energies on the PF spot in the offseason whether they retain Andre Miller or not.
Posted by Dean | February 12, 2008 8:51 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 20:51
From Chris Sheridan on ESPN.com:
"The Nuggets' willingness to give up this June's first-round draft pick will keep them a player in the Artest stakes, but it also could make the difference in their pursuit of Memphis point guard Kyle Lowry, who is being shopped by the Memphis Grizzlies.
Memphis also is fielding offers for Mike Miller but is trying to include little-used, heavily compensated forward Brian Cardinal (two years remaining at $6.3M and $6.75M) in any deal.
The Nuggets, Bulls, 76ers, Heat, Warriors and Nets are among the teams seeking to acquire Lowry, the 24th overall pick in 2006 who became expandable when the Grizzlies acquired Javaris Crittenton from the Lakers in the Gasol trade."
Looks like Ed S. is on the same wavelength about Kyle Lowry. Come on Ed...you get Mike Miller and Lowry in here, I'll take back everything bad that I said about you re: the Korver trade. Get it done Ed!!!!!
Posted by Dean | February 12, 2008 9:54 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 21:54
Arenas for Miller and 2009 #1. Twenty six years old,6!4", can shoot the 3; defend big 2 guards for L.Will., can be a #1 option off the ball with Iggy and L.WILL. Think this trade gives both teams what they need.
Posted by suede | February 12, 2008 10:32 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 22:32
There's an article addressing this year's trades on phillyburbs.com. The article actually answers a question I had about Webber's buyout and whether we could trade it away. No, we can't. But the question of whether it was a sound decision to buyout Webber in the first place was posed. Right now we'd be paying Webber $21 million. Could that have gotten us Gasol? Maybe even Gasol and a player? Makes you think. Actually it makes me think how bad Billy King really did screw this organization up. Just imagine making a playoff push in the East with a line-up of...
Miller
Dala
Young
Gasol
Dalembert
And an athletic talented youthful bench to go along with that starting 5. Now my head hurts.
Posted by Theo | February 12, 2008 10:36 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 22:36
Lowry as a starter. I got ripped for mentioning E.Watson on this blog last week.I doubt Lowry gets that good, and I consider Watson a backup, no more.If Iggy is our future 2, and Thad our future 3, we can!t have a 1 that cannot shoot.
Posted by suede | February 12, 2008 10:43 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 22:43
Theo, with the value of expiring contracts, I totally agree with you; how did King not look ahead.Wish the players that are bought out had to donate their new contract to charity; 20 million contract and bought out; signed for 3 million next year; donate it.
Posted by suede | February 12, 2008 10:50 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 22:50
suede, i agree with you. any player we are looking to acquire going forward at the 1, 2, or 3 has to be able to hit an outside shot.
Posted by noah | February 12, 2008 10:58 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 22:58
Theo,
BK made some bad moves, but he got Webber in the first place. From the people I've come in contact with and have heard from, most everyone liked the deal when it happened (Remember the standing "O" he got when he was introduced?). Soon after Webber got here, we realized that is was not going to work. Having Webber sit on the bench for at least a year and think he was not going to become a distraction is not realistic in my view. Bk cut his losses and moved on. He was not allowed to trade Iverson, so he had to keep trying different formulas.
He took a shot at making it work. Not sure what side of the deal you were on, but I think it a little unfair to go back to that now.
But, IF the years were in line, we could have traded him for Gasol AND Mike Miller.
Posted by Craig | February 12, 2008 11:18 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 23:18
cRAIG, The funny part is, we clear his money this year and Sacramento still can!t get rid of K.Thomas.
Posted by SUEDE | February 12, 2008 11:22 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 23:22
Craig - Agreed. There was no way they could have Webber sit on the bench for 1.5 years; he would have poisoned all of the younger guys with negativity. Also, they couldn't have de-activated him because it would deter any half decent future free agent from even looking here. No one would have considered the Sixers if they were known as an organization that submarined a player's career if it didn't work out.
It was the right move when they made the trade. It just didn't work out.
Posted by Dean | February 12, 2008 11:22 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 23:22
Dean, I wonder how other players would feel about it. After hearing the J.Obrien comments ;when asked to go in the post to open things up for A.I.;" I don!t do that". Do other players know when a guy is dogging it and would they hold it against that team?
Posted by suede | February 12, 2008 11:33 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 23:33
I agree that the Sixers should keep Andre Miller for the season. Here are my 2 cents on what the Sixers could do at the trading deadline. Make a trade with Golden State. Dalembert, Green, Randolph and either Carney without a pick or Booth and Utah's 1st round pick for Harrington, O'Bryant, Pietrus and Belinelli. This could work because all 4 have been in the Don Nelson doghouse for most of the year. Both options of this trade works out in Realgm.com trade checker. O'Bryant is a young big that we can test drive for the rest of the season. Harrington is young enough to work into the Sixers future and he is a 3/4 that can play inside and out. Belinelli and Petrius gives us more athletism at the 2. As for Miller if we do get a young point guard in the draft we could possibly do a sign and trade with Atlanta for Josh Smith.
Posted by Jolt821 | February 12, 2008 11:33 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 23:33
Craig:
Theo can speak for himself, but the way I read it, his complaint is not about the trade itself, but about the throwing away of a trade asset for nothing in exchange.
Personally, I have no problem with the trade, given where the team was. We traded 2 bad contracts for one. But we gave up a huge expiring contract for nothing with the buyout.
/morty
Posted by Morty | February 12, 2008 11:42 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 23:42
suede:
You're just asking for ALL CAPS with that question. I'd advise against.
/morty
Posted by Morty | February 12, 2008 11:43 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 23:43
Morty, I thought I read somewhere that the buyout saved us 2 to 3 mill. I could be wrong. That was 2 to 3 cap relief. But still!!
Posted by suede | February 12, 2008 11:46 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 23:46
Suede,
Is there another Arenas in the league? Because there is NO WAY Washington trades Gilbert for Miller.
Posted by Joe Doc | February 12, 2008 11:47 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 23:47
J.DOC, Wash. has 2 guys that want the ball, [Butler ,Jamison] and 2 guys next year that will want the ball [Blatche,Young]We have seen Millers affect on this team.Its not just about talent,its about chemistry.Do you think Wash. wins more with A.Mill. or Arenas?
Posted by suede | February 12, 2008 11:55 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 23:55
Suede:
I'm not entirely sure, but I believe that that does bring down the contract amount for those years in some percentage. Man, the NBA cap is complicated! But to have made the buy out worthwhile for the team, as opposed to Webber, we should have gotten much more than .85 cents on the dollar. I' would have let C-Webb play his few minutes, or get fed up and contract an "injury" like Jamal Mashburn had- does anyone remember that we had the rights to his contract for cap purposes?
/morty
Posted by Morty | February 12, 2008 11:56 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 23:56
A lot of the players that have been mentioned in proposed deals will be unrestricted free agents at the end of the season, such as Beno Uldrich, Pietrus and Patrick O'Bryant. If Stefanski wants anyone of them, he'll have the room to just sign them straight up.
Marc, as far as extending A. Miller, why? Heck, I'd still move him at the deadline THIS YEAR if the package is good enough. I just can't see paying big money to a 32-year old point guard. He's playing great now, but he has one more year on his contract for $9.9M. There is no hurry to do anything.
As a matter of fact, why not offer A. Miller and for Mike Miller and Lowry? The salaries match up. The 76ers would fill 2 needs and still have $10M to $12M to try and get its power forward. The Grizzlies would have a $10M expiring contract next year. I'd even consider throwing in a pick to make the deal work if I'm Philly.
Any thoughts on this?
Posted by datruth4life | February 12, 2008 11:58 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 23:58
I have a little something for you guys to think about!
Iggy turned down an extention before this season started. If I remember correctly, it was a pretty good deal. Now I have no idea what he wants or what Ed is willing to pay but if he isn't willing to give the max and another team is, Iggy could walk for nothing. With that in mind, do you think Ed would deal Iggy either at the deadline or around the draft?
I don't want to see him traded! But if he wants the max, there may be no other choice!
Posted by Joe Doc | February 12, 2008 11:59 PM
Posted on February 12, 2008 23:59
Arenas scares me after Iverson, but, paired with a SG who has great passing instincts in AI, it's not a bad thought.
Joe Doc, it would be about cap space for Washington, although I highly doubt they would let Arenas get away considering his fan appeal. And considering that Jamison is getting old, I doubt they will let Arenas walk even more.
/morty
Posted by Morty | February 13, 2008 12:01 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:01
Suede,
I'm not saying Miller wouldn't be good for Washington. I'm saying they could get much more for Arenas!
Posted by Joe Doc | February 13, 2008 12:02 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:02
AI would most likely be involved in a sign and trade deal if we can't get it done - so we would get something. I really like AI, but all in all am glad that BK is not the one dealing with his contract this off season - it promises to be a busy one!
Posted by Morty | February 13, 2008 12:03 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:03
Ithink a sign and trade after the draft works better for the team and player.His value[12 mill.] would be more and depending who we draft, you would have a better idea what you need.Can you say MONTE ELLIS !!!
Posted by suede | February 13, 2008 12:04 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:04
I love Monte Ellis. So why can't Ed figure out if he is going to resign Iggy now and if not trade him for Ellis?
Posted by Joe Doc | February 13, 2008 12:08 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:08
I just think he fills 3 major needs; 1)outside shooting 2)#1 option 3)big point to play with L.Will.No other player solves all these problems.And the fact we can play him off the ball with Iggy and L.Will. makes it sweeter. J.Doc, does A.Mill., 2009#!, and J.Smith get it done.
Posted by suede | February 13, 2008 12:11 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:11
I keep thinking about how Holmgren(the Flyer's GM) traded for two of the top free-agents-to-be before they could hit the open market. He decided who he wanted, who was expendable, and then made the trades. Beating the rest of the league to the punch. I know this is a different sport and rules but why not apply that concept to the Sixers. Decide who you want and go get them now! Why wait and take the chance another team gets involved and screws things up?
Posted by Joe Doc | February 13, 2008 12:14 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:14
Remember how Minn. was penalized? No negotiating till July, I believe.
Posted by suede | February 13, 2008 12:17 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:17
Suede,
Miller, 2009 #1, and J. Smith for who?
Arenas? Maybe getting closer. I would think they would want Lou Will or Carney thrown in just because that 09 pick will probably be mid 20's so it has lesser value.
Ellis? I doubt it. They don't need a PG.
Just my opinions. I'm no GM. Just like to play one on the computer! LOL!
Posted by Joe Doc | February 13, 2008 12:20 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:20
Sorry J.Doc; for Arenas.This 1 finger typing is killing me, I can!t keep up.
Posted by suede | February 13, 2008 12:24 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:24
I'm not saying to negotiate with the other players. I'm just saying to trade for them now so you can offer more then anybody at the end of the season. Thats one good thing about the NBA rules. The Sixers can offer more to their players then anybody else. So go get the players we want now, so they're our players at the end of the year.
Posted by Joe Doc | February 13, 2008 12:25 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:25
did that make sense?
Posted by Joe Doc | February 13, 2008 12:26 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:26
If the salaries match up fine. But it seems E.S.wants his options open at the draft.Love Ellis, he only makes same as L.Will.[700 thousand]. But G.St. loves him too.
Posted by suede | February 13, 2008 12:29 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:29
I know GS loves Ellis, so it would be hard to get him. Thats why I think Ed should decide if he is going to be able to resign Iggy. If NOT. then send Iggy and Green to GS for Ellis and Pietrus. That should come close as far as salaries goes. And Pietrus wants out of GS.
Posted by Joe Doc | February 13, 2008 12:32 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:32
J.Doc, give me what it takes to get Arenas.
Posted by suede | February 13, 2008 12:32 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:32
A quick rant -
I'm curious, how many people watch the Sixers on a regular basis? Every game?
The Sixers are playing well! Let's keep the main guys - if we trade someone, it should be for the fringe guys. There are so many fantastic storylines, but all everyone wants to do is trade, trade, trade, 24/7. I think this message board should be empty right now (sorry Marc). If we're in the playoffs, and I look on this board, and all people are talking about is the draft, I'd be disappointed.
So many pieces have fallen into the right place this season. I know those pieces don't add up to a championship team, but considering we've had crap basketball in this town for a couple of years now, I'm thankful. To me, the Sixers are like a stock that's going up - don't sell just yet!
Everyone who complained about Mo not having anything to work with - well, now he's got the perfect team for him and his personality and coaching style! For all of those who want Josh Smith, you don't think there's a chance he'd clash with Mo?
Mo: Hey Josh, stop taking so many bad shots! We need you to hustle and play defense.
Josh: What?!? Kiss my (bleep).
Frankly, I'm a little wary about bringing new players in. Mo's not so easy to get along with, as Iverson, Webber and Matt Barnes showed. And it is so vitally, crucially important that we have a good coach next year, be it an improved Mo or someone better. Everyone talks about stars, what about the coaches? How many mediocre coaches win titles? With Mo and this team together, it could be an important piece of the puzzle, and we shouldn't take huge gambles with the stuff that's going good for us right now.
And the players? They've developed some chemistry out there. I know we've just beaten 4 bad teams, but none of the games were squeakers. We were thrashers out there! Everyone's settled in now, let's give them a chance. I know it'll be too late, but give them until after March's tough schedule - I think, barring any major injuries, they'll do better than everyone thinks.
I'll give you a parallel, although they're totally different sports - I think the Sixers are the Phillies from two seasons ago, when the young guys stepped up and showed what they could do. You know what you got with the young guys, and we all feel something's special coming from them. They're doing great with Miller, why replace him with an unknown? Heck, I think even Carney's recognized his role as a defensive disruptor. Willie's learning, too.
I'm all for leaving things the way they are, and hoping ES can pull something out of our two picks in the upcoming draft, and add to this nucleus. I wouldn't trade Gilbert Arenas for Andre Miller right now.
Posted by sixerzguy | February 13, 2008 12:37 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:37
Ellis is insurance against B.Davis leaving.I only mentioned him because if an Iggy type player is the best player on the board when we draft, they may move Iggy to add a need.Okafor?
Posted by suede | February 13, 2008 12:40 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:40
Sixerzguy, good analogy; Getting rid of Abreu and Webber,very similar chemistry changes.The time is going to come,hopefully this summer, when we add the BIG piece, thats all we are saying. It is a risky proposition, not to mess up what is going on.
Posted by suede | February 13, 2008 12:48 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:48
Suede,
I don't know if the Sixers have the pieces to get Arenas. If I was Washington, I would want AT LEAST Miller, J. Smith, Carney, and '09 1st round pick. I'd probably want '11 1st rounder too. But I wouldn't give that up if I was the Sixers!
Sixerzguy,
Yes the team has looked good as of late, but have you looked at their record? Yes they can win 4 in a row but also lose 10 of 12! They still stink. Just because they might make the playoffs doesn't mean anything. Its the East! Its kind of like a redneck describing his date as the one with the most teeth! She's still butt ugly!
Posted by Joe Doc | February 13, 2008 12:56 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:56
No offense to the redneck crowd!
Posted by Joe Doc | February 13, 2008 12:57 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 00:57
Look at PHEONIX and theLakers, both 50 win teams that are going to take a slight step back in chemistry to go for it all. I hope we get to that point. J.DOC, WOULD NOT GIVE UP THE HOUSE!! Only bring him in if its feasible [A.Miller,2009 #1, J.Smith] ;maybe.
Posted by suede | February 13, 2008 1:03 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 01:03
I know I put this on most of these posts but just in case somebody doesn't know.
I'd really like to see Jose Calderon as the Sixers starting PG next year! He shoots 54% from the floor, 46% from 3-pt range, and 92% from the free trow line. He averages almost 9 assists and 13 points a game. He's 6'3" and only 26 years old!
Posted by Joe Doc | February 13, 2008 1:04 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 01:04
Love the fact he rarely turns it over. But how much to get him away [7 to 10 mill. per?]
Posted by suede | February 13, 2008 1:07 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 01:07
Marc is correct.
Dealing Andre Miller now would be a grave mistake, as quality PGs don NOT grow on trees, nor do competent NFL QBs.
Worse, such a mistake, as I see it, will ensure the last straw for Iguodala as a Sixer, who will want no part of a franchise future absent a floor leader. His first 2 years he endured without a playmaker whatsoever, and as the sole fiery player,asked to perform as Mr Do it All at 23-24 out of the blue, his disdain for playing in a half empty home arena will have run its course.
As many of remaining RFAs, expect they turn the tables on their Owners and opt to go Unrestricted one year out.
Posted by joshua | February 13, 2008 1:08 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 01:08
Joshua, If he is traded for cap space or future picks that could happen,but if you bring back quality [Arenas, J.Smith, for ex.] that would probably not happen.
Posted by suede | February 13, 2008 1:14 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 01:14
I have no idea what Calderon will get on the open market. He is an unrestricted free agent at the end of the year. Thats why I say trade for him now. Go get him and sign him to an extension before any other team can even make an offer. Don't even take a chance of letting him get away. Toronto might let him go for the right deal. They already have over $8 mill/yr committed to TJ Ford and they do have some holes. I say do this trade:
Tor gets:
Dalembert
Ollie
Amundson
Philly gets:
Calderon
Nesterovic
Dixon
and maybe Toronto's 1st round pick
Toronto needs a real center(Dalembert) to play with Bosh. Ollie could be insurance for Ford for the rest of the year. And ollie and Amundson have expiring contracts.
Sixers get their PG of the future. An expiring contract in Dixon. And since Nesterovic has a $8 million player option, the Sixers would have two $8-9 million expiring contracts(Miller,Nesterovic) plus $10 million in cap space to do sign-n-trades.
I think this works for both!
Posted by Joe Doc | February 13, 2008 1:27 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 01:27
A GM CANNOT negotiate whatsoever w a player as per NBA CBA until July. Ed cannot have any reliable clue what Iguodala wants, or his true sentiments until Summertime.
THAT is why Snider / King failed, as they needed to get an extension finalized with Iguodala, even if it meant $5M MORE than what they "deemed" his value. So they could plan ahead, Worse, in Iguodala' mind, that Party, King/Snider, have been replaced by Ed/ Luuko.
Last, if you think Free Agents want to join a team that is lacking a proven PG, think again. You will only attract the FAs seeking max $$, not the ones who want to join a prospective WINNER in the making.
Posted by joshua | February 13, 2008 1:30 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 01:30
Joshua,
Thanks. I didn't know GM's couldn't negotiate with their own players during the season. I've never heard that.
Posted by Joe Doc | February 13, 2008 1:36 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 01:36
Strictly forbidden in NBA. NBA CBA has excessive restrictions on these matters.
Many believe its overkill, myself included.
Posted by joshua | February 13, 2008 1:41 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 01:41
J.DOC, A fellow blogger gave a good sight yesterday with anything you want to know about the business side of the N.B.A.; NBA SALARY CAP FAQ
Posted by suede | February 13, 2008 1:41 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 01:41
thanks
Posted by Joe Doc | February 13, 2008 1:46 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 01:46
Its hard to envision the mechanics of how and to what extent the NBA Commish office can actually "police" the ongoing dialogues that occur between GMs and Player Agents that occur all the time. The Agents and GM's work at their respective jobs are 24/7, year-round tasks.
However, any diologue that crosses the line to broach the subject of a players future contract terms, however informal, if detected, can result in harsh sanctions applied to the GM franchise, in the extreme cases can result in forfeit of future draft picks, even voiding a players contract rights that a franchise controls; ie, similar to tampering charges. It can in the extreme, strip away a Franchise Bird Rights over a Player and grant him full Unrestricted Free Agent Status.It can get real ugly. Yet, surely some informal talks likely slip thru the cracks, w deniability for sure.
Safe to say it lends more Uncertainty to a GM's ability to plan ahead during the season. Course after the trading deadline late February, its a long wait until both the Draft and, after establishing the new Cap thru accouting for the Year profits, trades are reenabled during draft if involving drafted players, and July for FA signings and trades of non-draftees.
Posted by joshua | February 13, 2008 3:01 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 03:01
118-69! Thanks Marc. I thought it looked big, but 49 points is huge.
To put that it in perspective, the total scoring output across all four games was 387-336, which is a differential of only 51 points.
That means, during the streak, the starters have been basically even with their opponents, while the bench has been flat out phenomenal.
The bench strength shouldn't be a huge surprise, considering how good a scorer Lou is, that until recently Evans was a starter, and that Carney - though an apparent bust until recently - is a lottery pick.
But their impact is made bigger by who they were playing - Miami, Washington, and the Clippers. Three of the most injury-plagued, depth-deprived teams in the league.
Still, it's made me a believer of at least one thing - I'd hang onto Evans for $4M.
Posted by Zarathustra | February 13, 2008 3:43 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 03:43
Just got up Suede and saw your question.
Players talk in any league, and in this league, players are pampered more than any other. I think if the Sixers' submarined Webber into playing 10-15 minutes a night and then just de-activated him like someone suggested, it would have been impossible to get a top quality free agent in today's NBA to come here. Average role players make twice as much as coaches now; it's not about team chemistry for a lot of these guys when they make decisions on the open market, but moreso about how they'll be treated, how they'll be perceived, etc.
You just can't treat a player today like you could 20, 30, or 40 years ago. Players and agents have way too much power.
Posted by Dean | February 13, 2008 6:39 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 06:39
Good points Dean, its a shame its like that.N.B.A. coaches have a tough job. Few have the respect like L.Brown, Riley, Jackson, etc. ;seems they have to cajole a player to get him to play hard.
Posted by suede | February 13, 2008 8:00 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 08:00
Has there been any discussion of seeing what it would take to get Shelden Williams from the Hawks?
Considering he is completely out of the rotation in Atlanta, behind Horford, Marvin Williams, Zaza and Josh Smith .. they may be interested in moving him. I'm not sure what it would take to get him.. but he is a big, young PF that has some upside.
Maybe an expiring and future pick would do it.
It's worth a look.
Posted by Chris | February 13, 2008 8:34 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 08:34
He rebounds well, but seems thereare issues about his low post game. He has trouble scoring down low, and more like a 6!8" center than p. f.
Posted by suede | February 13, 2008 8:39 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 08:39
Let me begin by saying, I have enjoyed watching the Sixers' progress this season. I knew coming into the season they would be fun to watch - I had no idea they would be THIS much fun and, more importantly, this competitive. Hopefully, they will continue their success after the All-Star break.
Now, as for the off-season, the draft does not impress me. Nothing against the young players entering this year's draft, but do the Sixers' needs include more raw talent? Free agency, trades (specifically of Willie Green and maybe even Rodney Carney), and perhaps, a mid-1st and 2nd round find should do. Regarding possible free agents, I like the idea of bringing in a Corey Maggette to take some of the scoring load off Andre & Andre. And Josh Smith seems to be on his way to stardom and Atlanta would be foolish to let him get away.
One player, however, who has not been mentioned much on this blog, is Emeka Okafur. Perhaps his injuries have hurt his stock, but when healthy, he is a force inside, offensively and defensively. He would make the half-court offense more effective and maybe more importantly, he would take some of the defensive responsibilities of Sammy down low. What do people think of Emeka Okafur in a Sixers' uniform?
Line-Up:
PG Andre Miller
SG Andre Igoudala
SF Thaddeus Young
PF Omeka Okafur
C Samuel Dalembert
Top Reserves:
Lou Williams
Reggie Evans
Jason Smith
(Draft picks and players acquired in trades)
Posted by NicAndre | February 13, 2008 8:48 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 08:48
No Shelden Williams, please!!!
Posted by Craig | February 13, 2008 8:54 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 08:54
While we are all consumed with current trade scenarios, let's think ahead to after the season when contract negotiations with Iggy heat up. We all love him (far majority at least) but are we willing to pay him the Max? What does that do to our team going forward? And if we aren't willing to shell out $15-16MM per, do we trade now with that possibility in mind? Personally I think that is the greatest decision ES will face in the next 6 months.
Posted by TormentedInBeantown | February 13, 2008 9:02 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 09:02
Tormented:
It is a huge decision, and question as well. What is AI's market value and do we pay it to him? I, for one, am glad BK is not making this decision. If we had signed AI in the off season, ES' hands would have been tied.
/morty
Morty and Moishe Recommend...
Posted by Morty | February 13, 2008 9:41 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 09:41
The dre contract extenstion question is really the most interesting storyline to me. Im not convinved that Ed is going to offer him top dollar. I recall an interview he gave a month or two back on DNL, when he basically said he's going to offer him what he offers him that will be that. his words were something like "whatever you get next year, it will be enough so that neither you nor your kids will ever have to work again", which in context sort of sound like "you're going to get a ton of money, so dont argue with me about whether its 50 mil or 60 mil, and if you dont get what you want from me, someone else will give it to you". Of course this is just speculation, but my impression then was definitely that Ed was going to stand his ground. I may have been wrong or things may have since changed, but thats what im watching most closely.
A few people brought up Calderon again - i think hed be more than perfect here and they should do what they can do get him. IF he is signed, it makes moving miller a much easier task. If you dont bring him in, or draft a stud point gaurd, you need to get a pg back from any miller deal...which makes a miller deal kind of tough to do. Obviously im perfectly fine with keeping miller here through the end of his contract if we cant find his replacement - but that doesnt mean i dont think we shouldn't try now while we have the chance.
And please, whatever you do Ed, keep your hands off guys like Arenas or Artest. They are both extremely talented, but could both easily destroy the new character that this team is developing lately. By character i mean both the way they play ball and the way the overall team chemistry.
Posted by KM | February 13, 2008 10:24 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 10:24
I feel like your boy Dean has the right team but the wrong trade. Why not trade Andre Miller, Kevin Ollie's expiring contract, 2008's first round pick top-five protected of course (which is more likely to be no better than 12th overall) for Mike Miller and Kyle Lowry. This deal gives the Grizz more cap space, and a leader to teach there young kids for one more year and it gives them another pick in a draft that is going to be pretty deep. It gives the Sixers a top guard who is only 27 and a young guard who can come back home and bring some toughness to the team. The Sixers would still have plenty of cap space to go after whatever power forward they need (see Chris Wilcox).
Posted by Eric from Hoboken, NJ | February 13, 2008 10:24 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 10:24
I think the sixers should keep miller for at least the rest of the season because this team needs to learn how to win. Sure some may argue without miller on the team they would be losing, but I really don't see that as an issue if we let miller go over the summer. We can use miller as a way to move up in the draft this year. With the way we are winning I see us with picks 10-12 in the lottery. The only reason the sixers didn't move up last year is because Billy King refused to let go of Miller. A team like the Clippers might need him. The only reason I see that team losing is because they are missing two key players livingston and Brand. I think we would be in a position to draft a point guard like bayless. This would free up a lot of things for Stefanski to do in the offseaon, it would him able to draft our future point guard, free up additional cap space so we could go out and get a power foward like Okafur or Josh Smith, and allow him to resign Iggy to a good deal.
Posted by Matt | February 13, 2008 10:35 AM
Posted on February 13, 2008 10:35
KM:
I doubt dre will get a substantially different offer from another team. But if he does it will be a very difficult decision. ES seems to have a very good grasp of the business issues that the NBA salary cap creates, and that means, hopefully, he is unlikely to bid against himself. If I were ES, I would make dre an offer around previously discussed terms, and if dre turns that down, let the market set a price for him. We always have the option to match.
Eric:
In my opinion, that is way over paying for a player at a position (swingman) we already have several options. Going forward, we need a PG and a PF, and using our valuable expiring contracts, draft picks and cap space should go towards those needs.
/morty