Flickgrrl

I doubt that Netflix is taking advantage and promoting Oldboy. It was a well known foreign film, and Netflix promotes films based on a user's prior preferences.
I'm not a fan of the film, but it seems a stretch to say these crimes inspired the film. The guy was just seriously off his rocker.

Hi Carrie,

Interesting column. I've never seen Oldboy and judging from your comments, don't want to.

One small point; I believe Cho is wielding a hammer in the phots not an "axe"

regards,

Paul

Just how in the heck is the video tape "Oldboy Influenced?"

Carrie Rickey, you are a total idiot, and i'm astounded by your completely unfactual spin job. You are a partisan Hack!

Hello Carrie,

It is very interesting to read your thoughts on this alleged link, although I can't say that I agree with what you are saying.

Firstly, you completely fail to mention that 'Oldboy' is a film which promotes the message that revenge is an utterly futile act.

Secondly, your suggestion that "Netflix.com would seem to be cashing in on Oldboy by featuring it as a suggested title to those who rent foreign films" is completely absurd. You, yourself, have already declared that "received a four-star review from Roger Ebert and won a jury prize at the Cannes Film Festival"; does it not stand to reason, that a critically acclaimed foreign film would be recommended to Netflix account holders, who frequently rent foreign films?

Quite frankly, it appears as if you are cashing in on this terrible incident; wheeling out some ill-considered, reactionary, tabloid journalism in order to situate yourself on the moral high-ground, without providing any insight or sensible commentary.

Instead of treading over old ground, would it not be more fitting to look at a society and system of education, which failed to provide the support and help that a, quite obviously, troubled young man needed? Of course, this raises lots of difficult and complex arguements and is much less appealing than simply finding someone to blame and pointing a finger.

Thanks,

Dan

"Now Cho, who took a break between murders to mail an Oldboy-influenced videotape"

Please explain how this is an Oldboy influenced videotape. As far as i can see only one still image resembles anything to do with Oldboy this is a complete stretch to talk as if Oldboy was the cause of this incident, considering the message Oldboy and the others in the revenge trilogy tell is one of not seeking revenge and how revenge causes nothing but pain if Oldboy is to blame Taxi Driver should also be blamed for this incident as one of those images has him pointing guns towards the camera which is very similar to a widely used image from Taxi Driver

Hi - Drudge has had this reference up since last night when the NBC footage came out. I hadn't noticed any actual reference Cho made to 'Oldboy' that has been released as of yet in his writings.
To be clear, the current story Drudge is quoting includes this 'evidence' of a connection...
"The video, which Cho posted to an American TV network while carrying out his murderous rampage, appears to include photographs of Cho re-enacting scenes from the film."
A single picture of Cho holding a hammer over his head juxtaposed with a single shot from a movie character holding a hammer over his head seems like pretty flimsy evidence to serve as the rationale for your post.
I'm just curious if there is other links and evidence other than a single photo?
Thanks, Joel Epstein

carrie....please be more careful when posting unresearched, unfounded information. the link to this blog is from a news sight and i would think it would be held to the same standards. one picture of cho holding a hammer denotes that his rampage was based on a movie where a guy happened to kill people with a hammer? that's rediculous. i've used a hammer before, and i've probably been photographed with a hammer. the connection you make is ver weak, however you display it as fact. shame on you. please, try to avoid passing off gossip and opinion as fact in the future.

dissapointed dave

just wanted to join in the chorus of denunciation over your touting the so-called link between this horrible deranged young man and the movie "oldboy" - if this young man was trying to copy the pose in that photo, he did a pretty poor job.

I'm sure a similar photo can be found from Home Improvemet or perhaps a Tom & Jerry cartoon!

The ingnorance is this piece I find quite disturbing. Not only do you not understand what Oldboy is about, you are not willing to actually consider what may be the real reasons behind this tragedy.

Or is it a case of "Korean national influenced by a Korean film...can't be America's responsibilty"

While people continue to churn out unfounded, knee-jerk views regarding the influence of the Arts on such extreme behaviour, the real reasons will probably be ignored or not even considered, and sadly such tragedies will probably continue.

Dear Carrie,

I just finished reading your article and I was astonished at how unfactual, unreasoned, and illogical your argument was.

The only reason I think Oldboy is being brought into this is because the killer was Korean. If the killer had been black, you'd be blaming rap music or Bad Boys, and had he been white, Death Metal or the movie Brick. This is a blatent form of racism. The truth is, Cho was a mentally unbalanced human being, and no one is ultimately to blame but him.

Furthermore, at this time we don't even know if Cho Seung-Hui had even seen this film, so your article is pure opinion piece based on biased conjecture...yet you phrase it as fact. Your article is misleading and racially biased, and if Philly News had any sense they'd fire you immediately for this unfactual, racial hatchet-job.

Sincerely,
Someone with a degree of common sense.

Hello Carrie
Its nice to see that you are upholding the age old rule of 'blame something in popular culture' to explain someones terrible actions. While its true that the picture seems like a reference to the film Oldboy, its interesting that this has been singled out because, hmmm, its a Korean film and - of course - Cho was Korean. So what about the pictures of him with a gun? Influenced by John Wayne? Rambo? The war in Iraq?
Let the witchhunting begin - its sure as hell easier than examining what happened, what drove someone to kill innocent people and realising that it maybe is a bigger issue than blaming a film. Or a song. Or a game. Or a comic. Or a .... whatever you're comfortable with and helps you to sleep at night.

Movies don't kill people. People kill people. And more specific to this topic: Disturbed, depressed people with guns kill people.

How did this "connection" first emerge anyway? Did someone just mention Cho had seen Oldboy, and that was enough for the press? Or was it just because he's asian and holding up a hammer? Rather than just blaming violent fictional media, how about factual news outlets exploiting every minute of graphic footage? Or for that matter uninformed blogsites like this one throwing out any ridiculous theory simply because you need to post content?

The many anonymouses who say that I am blaming "Oldboy" for the tragedy at Virginia Tech have misread my post.I don't believe anyone can prove conclusively that a movie (or novel) inspires homicidal or psychotic behavior; rather, I'm of the opinion that a potentially homicidal or psychotic individual is more suggestible, or susceptible to the influence of such material. I am a defender of freedom of speech and of pop culture.

I absolutely agree that Cho's isolation or alienation or untreated psychosis is deeper than a movie.

Hi Carrie,
Responding to your post at 5:24....I posted using my full name. I'll be more than happy to provide my email if you request it. My question is, is the only connection you are making between between 'Oldboy' and the Virginia Tech tragedy - which represents the pivot point of your post - a single photo of Cho posing with a hammer raised over his head?
Yes or no?
Thanks for your continued response...
Joel Epstein

Hello again,

So, Carrie, what are your thoughts on my response to your comments relating to Netflix?

Reading your own post again, would you accept that you have made yourself look rather silly; writing about the critical praise which the film garnered, then suggesting that a video rental service is "cashing in" on its allegedy link to this tragic event. It is a pretty silly suggestion, after all...

Thanks,

Dan (not Anonymous)

In response to Carrie's response

Then why even bother with your Blog entry? Is there any evidence that Oldboy is favourite film of Cho's or that he has actually seen it? And whether or not he had, I'm sure every violent act can be found in a movie, book or game somewhere.

Some years ago here in the UK the murder of a child by two other children was blamed on the influence of the film Child's Play. A shooting spree was also connected to the viewing of the film Rambo Yet there has never been any evidence to prove that these films were ever viewed by the perpetrators, let alone an influence on them.

Please do not taint what is actually an outstanding piece of cinema with a connection to this tragedy. Had Cho been photographed replicating a pose from a film you actually liked, would you have even considered writing this piece, with such a flimsy connection.

Also, I think you'll find it is not just "anonymouses" criticising your piece.

To Joel,

When a tragedy such as Virginia Tech occurs, everyone points a finger at the usual suspects: which are usually the First and Second Amendments. I jumped in because I believe in protection of freedom of speech and don't think that censoring movies would prevent incidents such as Virginia Tech or Columbine. I looked at the NBC footage, one sequence including a stalking first-person point-of-view perspective down a corridor, which evoked the first-person POV of some "Oldboy" scenes. (It also reminded me of a similar sequence in the film "Cache.") It was not just the hammer-wielding image of Cho that sparked my post. It was the worry that there would be a cry for censorship. After gang violence rocked the UK during the '90s, Stanley Kubrick's "A Clockwork Orange" was banned from circulation. I wouldn't want to see this happen with "Taxi Driver," "The Basketball Diaries" or "Oldboy."

To Dan,

Two readers e-mailed me about their shock about seeing "Oldboy" in their recommended queue from "Netflix." If you read my post, I very carefully said "would seem to be cashing in." It could be an unfortunate coincidence. If it was, I apologize to Netflix, a service that quotes me, among many other reviewers.

Thanks for your posts,

Carrie

I think you'll find that A Clockwork Orange was never banned in the 90's, and never banned in any way by the authorities. It was withdrawn by a paranoid Kubrick, requesting it only be released in the UK after his death. This followed an alleged copycat attack on a homeless man and a rape, in which it is alleged the rapist sang "Singin' In The Rain",just after the cinema release of the film in the 70's.

Hello Carrie,

Thanks for responding, although, as a "defender of freedom of speech and of pop culture", I would have expected more from you, than to react with the declaration that "I'm incensed that Netflix.com would seem to be cashing in on Oldboy by featuring it as a suggested title to those who rent foreign films."

Surely, you could have just pointed out, to those two correspondents, that 'Oldboy' had probably been in their recommended queue for months, due to its popular and critical success? That you chose to make this decision saddens me.

Still, at least you were polite enough to apologise...

Dan

My mistake, Andrew, about the Kubrick. I remembered about the copycat, but thought it was gang-related. If you reread my original post, I think you will see that you and are are on the same side. I didn't "taint," as you say, Park Chanwook's artistry. I wanted to pre-empt those who called for its censorship.

Hello once more,

Carrie, you really do appear to have misjudged your approach and now you appear to be backtracking in a quite clumsy fashion. If, as you claim, you "wanted to pre-empt those who called for its censorship", why did you choose to write an article that focussed on extremely negative relationships between films and acts of deplorable violence?

Surely, as a "defender of freedom of speech and of pop culture" (I apologise for slipping that in again), you should have condemned reports that were attempting to forge this rather tenuous link and taken a stand against such lazy journalism. As it is, you appear to have merely jumped on the bandwagon...

Dan

Hello once more,

Carrie, you really do appear to have misjudged your approach and now you appear to be backtracking in a quite clumsy fashion. If, as you claim, you "wanted to pre-empt those who called for its censorship", why did you choose to write an article that focussed on extremely negative relationships between films and acts of deplorable violence?

Surely, as a "defender of freedom of speech and of pop culture" (I apologise for slipping that in again), you should have condemned reports that were attempting to forge this rather tenuous link and taken a stand against such lazy journalism. As it is, you appear to have merely jumped on the bandwagon...

Dan

Test

I love how everytime Carrie makes a mistake its "Whoops! Sorry!" "Annie Liebwitz? Fran Liebowitz? Clockwork Orange banned? Netflix cashing in?"
Get your damn facts straight before you blog

Watch a movie first before you accuse it of anything.

As people have already stated Oldboy along with the other two films in the 'Vengeance Trilogy' are meant to show viewers that revenge is unfufilling and only leads to greater destruction.

And the fact of the matter is, Oldboy is not "ultraviolent." I would say in the film's two hour running time, there are maybe two shorts scenes of extreme violence.

It's implied Oh Dae Su (the character who wields the hammer in the film) may have killed one person, but as far as I can remember, he doesn't directly kill a single person on screen.

The film as a whole doesn't even begin to compare to the violence in any mainstream horror film.

In fact films such as The Passion of the Christ, Schindler's List, and The Departed are all infinitely more brutal and graphic than Oldboy.

Thanks for the response Carrie...I appreciate you taking the time for the clarification. I'd like to bother you with one more question if you don't mind. I initially linked to your post from the main philly.com website. On it, underneath the picture of the character w/ the hammer from 'Oldboy' is the following...

Deadly inspiration?
Flickgrrl: Va. Tech killer seems too familiar with a toxically violent South Korean film.

Are you editorially responsible for that link 'tease' (for lack of a better word...) and, if not, do you think it is journalistically responsible given the meaning behind your post?

Just to clarify my questions since it is sometimes difficult to discern intent behind posts, I agree with your position on decrying censorship. I'm more curious about the way media tackles certain images. As I mentioned in my first post, Drudge has been flogging a similar connection and, as I type, CNN is reporting on 'Oldboy' as well. Somehow I'm sure Wolf Blitzer hasn't seen it...

Thanks again for taking the time to respond, its much appreciated...Joel Epstein

Here we go again...

Let's continue to pass the blame. Do some more research from another angle that isn't so desperate and ridiculous. I can't wait until your generation slowly vanishes with time. My generation will be far more successful when it comes to handling and understanding these freak occurrences. Film and videos games are the rock music of our generation and they're evil too right?

Blaming Park Chan-wook's Oldboy is just ridiculous, lazy and unrealistic. Congratulations for figuring out the problem with the US! These problems stem from the kid's inability to differentiate between reality and fantasy.

Little did we know all of these problems came from Korean films! Give me a break. As if the US hasn't made more obscene movies and credited them with awards. At 23, I shouldn't have to tell you this. Grow up.

I'll be amazed if you actually approve this post. I sincerely hope you do and I would have more respect for you if so.

On a side note, I have highly recommended OldBoy to many people for years. I've followed the director for a long time before that and am a huge fan. His ability to explore themes in revenge and humanity are dark, yet truthful.

Also, keep in mind that the director's latest film is a romantic love story.

Joel,

I didn't write the teaser. The question you ask is a good one, and should be directed to the editors of philly.com.

DanieLee,

Please read the original post all the way through. I did not blame Park Chanwook. I posted this earlier in the day when I saw that my e-mail and the web was percolating with a "blame the movies" brew.

And Bob, if you're going to get on my case for typos, please make sure you have none before casting the first stone.

Best,

Its just an easy Scapegoat to try and cover the fact that the whole system fucked up. People dont go insane because of videogames or movies. They go insane because of the world we live in and the way society is. Also because we put guns in their hands.

Alice,

I agree with you 100 percent. When people react to tragedy, they scapegoat. But don't get me started on the Second Amendment.

Carrie,

I did read the original post through and your statements are throwing fuel on a fire that seems to have only started to burn. If you don't believe in censoring film, or any form of art for that matter, I suggest you better clarify your stance in your original post. Obviously many other readers are concluding the same thing here.

When you call the film disturbing and toxic, that creates a perception in your readers. It has nothing to do with personal taste and now is not the time to take these things lightly. Do you not think that calling the tape "Oldboy influenced" is a stretch. Again, that feels lazy and completely irrelevant.

I appreciate your attempt to dodge the points I made, but please feel free to respond to them.

Thank your for your time,
Daniel

Hi Carrie,

If movies or games could turn people into criminals then what happened at VT would happen every hour of every day on every campus on the planet. Millions of people all around the world enjoy movies that depict violence, yet what percentage of them become criminals? To suggest that a movie is in part responsible for this tragedy is irresponsible. Especially Oldboy, which condemns the act of vengeance in all its forms. The director of the film has made this a common theme in his movies.

But even if Oldboy had condoned vengeance, which it does not, it would deserve no blame for this young man's horrible actions. Our society is ill, and finding easy scapegoats only makes matters worse because is distracts attention from the real causes.

To blame one movie for a tragic incident as this is absolutely ridiculous. The boy holds a hammer in a picture and automatically Oldboy is to blame...On the contrary, he held two guns in another picture...Would you blame John Woo films? The young man was obviously disturbed due to a rough, possibly, love depraved upbringing. As was said many times over...many people have seen Oldboy. Does this mean we all are killers on the inside who long to shoot up a school? Absolutely not. Oldboy at it's deep core was not even about the revenge aspect at all, but of the consequences and the deep gritty underbelly of what will come of revenge. By the end, Oh Dae Su (the main protagonist) does not even get the revenge he's been seeking and begs and pleads for mercy for the sake of his future. He had a change of heart...Though done very roughly.

And to be fair Netflix.com and several other internet rental sites...and even rental stores across the nation, across the world have been cashing in on Oldboy for years simply because it was a very well made movie. Not because a kid was influenced to kill people because of it.

Hey tramp... Nice column! By reading this, I can really see how you have been a critic for 21 years. It is so well written. NOT!! You moron.

You obviously did not like this movie, before this incident. Ok. You must have despised it, based on this writeup. First you write that the picture is obviously a copy of Oldboy. YOU DONT KNOW THIS. And frankly, if you were a good writer and wanted to write a smart article you woudlnt use words like obviously. You are obviously a moron! See how I did that? I can use that word. I am not pretending to be something im not. Your a horrible critic. People rely too mcuh on other people's (critics) opinions these days, but hey, your argument isnt working. it seems most people think your a hack.

I could go on and on all day about how much you suck. My next brief point will be how you state "he sent an Oldboy- influenced videotape"

Ok, do you work for NBC? Do you have access to a tape we didnt see. Do you have more "Oldboy photos" I DONT THINK SO.

Start lookin for a new job, because you are a horrible critic. Oh yea, and you couldnt stomach the oldboy storyline, because the brother and sister part in it, hit a little too close to home huh?!

You know the first ever crime of murder was Cain and Able. There was no Oldboy or videogames or anything else to inspire the murder of his own brother. There was nothing more than a man's jealousy and rage to bring about the first act of violence to our fellow man. People need to take responsibility for their own sick actions. It's almost as if we are soothing these psychopaths. Shhh it's alright it's the movies fault you must be highly suceptible to onscreen violence. All of this sometimes seems like propoganda against a movie that alot of people didn't understand and that couldn't as you say "stomach it". Look see I knew I didn't like it for a reason! This is what happens when someone with issues watches these movies! Give me a break!

Exploitative tabloid journalism :0 . tasteful, informed internet users :35. holy shit, this means the majority is actually smarter this time !!

i am shocked.

post script, my real name is Jin Lau. but since there might be pictures of me holding a hammer floating around and internet i dont wanna get involved in this whole hoo-hah. (look, asian guy and hammer, must be violently influenced by a movie i didnt get and probably didnt even watch !!!)

Hi Carrie-

You touched on an important angle to the Va. Tech. tragedy. One previaling
theory in my field (Psychology) is that violent art and entertainment influences those that are predisposed towards violence (e.g. with mental illness) to violent behavior.

If you take a look at the case of Kip Kinkle in Oregon(murdered both parents, then went on a shooting rampage at school), a song by Marilyn Manson ("no forgiveness, no surrender" were the primary lyrics) and the film "William Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet" (heavy violence-shootings and ironically shown in his high school English class) both reportedly influenced his actions. The Manson song was left playing loudly on his stereo when he left his family's home after shooting both parents to go to the school and finish his killing spree.

Hopefully there is a lot we can learn from this incident. Keep up the good work.

Hello Scott,

Please could you explain exactly what it is ironic about the fact that Kip Kinkle was allegedly show "Willaim Shakespeare's 'Romeo and Juliet'" in his high school English class. Personally, I would think that was a suitable forum to show such a film.

Oh, and another thing...

Kip Kinkle was a troubled young man (with a recorded history of clinical depression) who was expelled from school, after illegally purchasing a gun; this was surplus to the guns that his father had already bought him. After being expelled, he went home and shot his father (with his father's rifle) and his mother; he claimed that he did this to spare the embarrassment of his expulsion.

During that night he repeatedly listened to a song from the soundtrack to 'Romeo and Juliet', an album that doesn't feature any works by Marilyn Manson. the next day he drove to his scholl and began shooting in the canteen; he killed two people and injured twenty-five. He was fifteen years old.

Scott, you claim to be in the field of Psychology, yet you have posted an piece of ill-researched, unsubstantaited nonsense, which is filled with innacuracies. I'm beginning to think that you have been liberal with the truth.

I'm also amazed that you seem to have embraced the tabloid, coffee-table psychology analysis of this dreadful incident. Surely the facts that Kinkle had a history of depression and an unhealthy obssession with guns are more relevant in his case?

Heider said that 'we are all niave psychologists'; I think you've illustrated that some are more niave than others.

Thanks,

Dan

Cho was mentally disturbed. The failure to remove him from school and/or put him in a mental health institution in an entirely different issues.

The violence he portrayed in his video message is something else.

It’s time to face the undeniable truth: Violent content in video games and movies hurts the development of our children.

Pro sports playoff time is upon us. During playoffs time, our culture tends to focus on the intensity of pro sports that often leads to violent physical battles. So, let’s start there.

The NFL is cracking down on players who have behavioral problems. Mostly, those who have run afoul of the law. I applaud them. However, when fights erupt or players lose their tempers, cries go out from journalists to clean up the game, and about the violent influence on younger viewers.

Modern sports are violent. Sure. But when is the last time you heard about a teenage boy killing a classmate with his lacrosse stick, a soccer kick, or a hockey puck?

You don’t.

We’ve stopped kids from fist fights. Why? Why not teach them how defend themselves, how punches really do hurt, how bloody noses are not fun, and also teach equal parts of conflict resolution in schools?

While we need to hold sports stars up to a higher standard in society, when is the last time you saw a suicide bomber or suicidal murderer cite the Pistons / Pacers brawl or act like a hockey player throwing a very off-balance punch? Punches from deranged or mentally ill teenagers don’t kill people. Mentally ill teenagers with guns do.

So, in this young democracy and continuing social experiment of unfettered access to free speech and content that we call America, it’s time to face the undeniable truth:

Violent content in video games and movies is hurting our children. Combined with the availability of firearms, it’s a toxic pair. Are these the only reasons? No. The root causes? No. Should we censor all media content? Absolutely not.

I consider myself a musician, a writer, and an athlete. I see no valid reason why anyone under eighteen needs to watch violent movies, play violent video games, or listen to hardcore violent music. And, I never remember my sports experiences teaching me that it was an option to hurt someone.

After two decades of communication theory teaching that there is no way to prove that cartoons, video games, or the rise of violence in movies marketed to kids cause increased violence in children, we must come to the common sense realization that it’s a part of the problem that needs to be addressed ASAP.

We’ve given our kids access to Internet, TV, DVD, and music. Just because they look older and sounds older doesn’t mean that they’re mature enough to handle the violent and sexual content.

It’s time to put political and religious differences aside. It’s time to address the ridiculous notion that just because someone can design a violent video game, market it to teens, and make a boatload of money on it, that it’s their unalienable right to do so without knowledge, fear, or care of the possible results.

The gun owners, hunters, and NRA members who are responsible, and teach their kids how to properly respect, store, and manage a firearm, also have a huge place at the table. Again, you usually don’t see a teenager who has been taught to hunt and treat a firearm with respect using it on a suicidal murderous spree.

And it’s time, I beg of you, to realize that just because there is profit, our teens do not need 24/7 immediate access to firearms, sex, and violent entertainment.

If the last 30 years has spurned teenagers and adolescents to be involved in school shootings, rape, drug wars, and increased bullying, what will the next generation be like? It’s easy to blame parents, but it’s impossible to monitor kids 24/7. The providers, writers, directors, producers, designers, and creators of violent content need to step to the plate with responsible actions.

Can we agree to start there? Put our differences aside and educate our kids how to mediate conflict, to have physical respect for one another, to view less violent content, and to put fewer guns on the streets?

These issues can be tied to better psychological counseling, better access to medical records, a school’s right to expel students, and also applied to sexual content in society. But let’s start with the worst…the part of it that makes the death of thirty-three departed students from Virginia at the hands of a mentally deranged teenager that much more disturbing.

And let’s start now.

The Oldboy connection raises the chicken-or-egg question of whether violent imagery causes violent acts. Does a toxic movie incite toxic action, or is a sick soul unusually suggestible to toxic images?

This pertinent question is periodically asked, but never conclusively answered.

I think this question is definitely answered. Consider the sheer number of violent images in movies, video games, books, magazines, TV shows and other forms of entertainment. Think of the huge number of people exposed to them regularly, whether intentionally or otherwise (e.g. getting sucked into media overload). You are talking about millions of people compared to a handful of tragic incidents. I don't say that to diminish the horror of incidents like VT, Columbine and others, but perspective really is needed here. There was no TV during the Spanish Inquisition. No video games around the time of the Holocaust. Brutal acts have been around as long as people have, regardless of media formats, and that includes sick souls.

I've seen Oldboy and think it's a great movie. It hasn't led me anywhere close to violence - and I live here in Philly, one of the country's most violent areas. Obviously a lot of other folks have seen Oldboy with no adverse affects. Same with Taxi Driver, Clockwork Orange and plenty more gruesome films than those. I don't consider any of them "toxic" either.

I don't know enough about psychopaths to make a call on what triggers them to explode. But to blame filmmakers, musicians, et al for the random violent acts of the deranged is and has always been ridiculous. Ozzy and Judas Priest didn't cause suicides to happen. Oldboy didn't make VT happen.

So forget the chicken-and-egg debate. It's settled. Oldboy is a movie, can't wield a gun and hasn't hurt anyone. For better or worse, the responsibility for real-world acts of violence rests with the people (stable or otherwise) who commit them.

A better set of questions to ask might be, as a nation, are we cultivating more sick souls now than in the past? Why? And what can we do about it?

I read your recent article with interest. The debate over the media's effect as a reflection or a cause of societal behavior is fascinating, and I appreciate your shining more light on it. One point that is worth further pursuit is the cycle of tragedy and grief--in some ways owned and instigated, but definitely exploited, by the media conglomerates which market the rage-inducing movies, video games and heavy metal/rap music that helps the oppressed visualize their rage and emulate deadly behaviors. These same compnanies then profit also by the increased viewership of the 24-hour ad nauseum news show rumination, and tsk-tsking over events, followed later by the increased viewership of the cathartic Oprah/Dr. Phil weepfests widely esteemed as part of the social good in the "grieving" process. This is not to attribute any kind of conspiracy theory to what is happening--there are far too many variables in effect for anyone or organization to orchestrate this--but rather to acknowledge the result of a combination of factors, recognize their effects and hopefully inspire some sort of preventative action by those who control many parts that drive the vicious media cycle of instigate, reflect, profit, etc. As an example, which company in the US distributes the Korean movie with the portrait of the guy with the hammer (the one the Korean youth mirrored in one of his photos), and is it part of one of the companies that owns the news shows and Oprah shows? As mentioned, connecting these kind of dots might shed a new light on the hypocrisy of many of the newscasters and talk show hosts amid the hand wringing.

Heyah,
haven't read everything, so I'm probably writing down things that are allready in there somewhere. A bit silly, but got annoyed.

OldBoy specifically
Assuming a causal relation between violence in media and aggressive behavior, what happened has nothing to do with this one movie.
Let it be.

Humans
-there is no convergence in social psy research towards influence of violence in whatever media upon everyday behavior (check webofknowledge)
-it is known that, if certain objects are present given certain 'moods' (call it whatev.), behavior is more aggressive
Gotta like behaviorisme, but, we still have some free will left.

Choose the situation: get rid of the guns.
Can you do that, as a nation?

Just wanted to add my two cents that you are wholly innaccurate in your blaming or the film Oldboy for the events of the VA Tech shootings. I am quite disheartened to hear of a professional film critic who doesn't know fact one of the film she is bashing. You said yourself that you did not finish watching it, so at what point do you feel that you are qualified to make assumptions about anything related to the film? If one takes a look at the statistics of shooting deaths in South Korea itself versus the shooting deaths in an American city, let's say Philadelphia and one can easily see that Oldboy is not the responsible party for these tragic events. This tragedy occurred because of a mentally unhealthy individual who had incorrect access to firearms. Please make a statement to address all of these comments as it seems that this article is the only one to have as many posted comments and it is one that seems to only bash you.

Okay… getting back to the original blog post. Wow Carrie... I think you’re out of your league on this one.

“Obviously modeled”?? … That’s pretty strong language considering speculation is all any of us can offer up at this time concerning Cho Seung Hui.

The Blame Game resolves nothing and is anti-productive, as is arm chair psychoanalysis of a dead man. It's ludicrous to besmirch a perfectly good film just for the sake of writing a blog that perpetuates conjecture.

At this point in time, singling out and portraying Oldboy as a negative influence in regard to Cho's actions is critical and unfair. Doing so opens up yet another avenue for ignorance to breed, and frankly is just one more negative contribution to the current media frenzy and sensationalism over the VT tragedy.

I can’t help but wonder why you didn’t take this opportunity in your blog to be "clearly" supportive of filmmaking as an artistic and social medium. Where’s your loyalty to film? Your blog hints of disrespect for the very genre that has personally served you well.

Your blog opened up a can of worms without substantiation and cohesiveness. It’s not “obvious” to me how you were just pre-empting those who called for censorship. Initially, you started the ball rolling by expressing your distaste for Oldboy without clarification as to why you found it distasteful. You set the whole tone of your blog by saying right out of the gate that you can’t stomach the film, and you did taint it with what came off as your jaded perspective. After which, it seemed to me that you were using, example after example of other films that have been blamed for violent acts, as though you are pro-censorship... But then in summation, you sided with Judge Babcock’s ruling. So, it's not clear to me how you got from point A to point B.

I like freedom of choice. I don’t want to be spoon fed by Big Brother. I’d personally rather be trusted to know right from wrong, which most of us are capable of distinguishing, and in accordance with, living our lives by regardless of if we play video games, listen to Marilyn Manson or watch Oldboy.
 
As an author, one would think you’d be better prepared to “bring it” and that you would bring it the first time around. Using direct "quotes" would be much preferable over loose generalizations when taking on powerful issues. When discussing Judge Babcock’s ruling, using expressions such as "something to the effect" devalues an important topic, as does taking it upon yourself to surmise and condense a judge's views into your own interpretation prefaced by "in so many words."

Your statements were left naked to stand alone by themselves, thus lending to confusion and controversy. For example, stating that Netflix is cashing in on the disastrous events at Virginia Tech by pushing Oldboy upon its members was not supported by reason. You left me wondering how in the world you came to this conclusion.

It’s my humble opinion that as a long-time writer for the Philadelphia Inquirer among other renowned publications and newsgroups that it would be paramount for you to take an educated, intelligent and responsible approach to the main topic of this blog. It's my understanding that you are a professional writer and not just some Joe Schmoe out there posting a blog on Myspace for his own amusement, where skimming the topical surface is excusable.

We are all responsible to be responsible for our actions, but you do have an extra degree of responsibility to your readers. It's condescending of you to tell your readers in your rebuttals to go back and reread your blog. It's not likely so many people misread it. Odds are the fault lies with you and your poor communication techniques.

In closing, I too am incensed. I'm incensed that you didn't put more thought; effort and care into your blog, and that you in your own way fanned the media flames, and to its detriment, used Oldboy in the process. To make matters worse, it appears that you too cashed-in at the expense of the VT tragedy as well as artistic and social expression in film.

You couldn't stomach the film? How far did you get?

It's hardly a 'bloody rampage', more of a mystery/thriller film. Oldboy has some violent scenes, and yes, its main theme is vengeance, but its much more complicated than that. The entire focus of the film is the protagonist discovering the reason behind his capture in 5 days.

The most disturbing scenes were the teeth torture and the tongue being cut off; neither were acts of vengeance.

It's a tenuous link you're making here - it's likely that the shootings would still have happened if this film was never made. I doubt it was an inspiration the murders.

Oldboy's a great film, and it's a shame that people are getting the wrong idea about it by reading things like this.

Hey Carrie

I've seen oldboy countless times and trying to draw a pisture of Oldboy and Cho Seung-Hui since their are no similraties. Such Oh-Dae Su was imprisoned for 15yrs for no reason while Cho Seung-Hui was just a dumb idiot. Incidently their was only ONE gun in the entire film and the famous corridor scene, he only used a hammer then his fist, did Cho Seung-Huiso stop being abusive to Chan Wook Park's film as you don't know shit about it or the way Chan Wook Park portrayed the Violnece as a nessescity. And stop blaming film for scum to have an excuse to lean on, blaming films only tarnishes filmwriters creditbility as 1st Class films.

Carrie,

I noticed how you couldn't stomach the entire movie, and yet still thought it appropriate to draw sweeping conclusions about Oldboy's chicken-and-egg relationship to the V-Tech shooter. Had you watched the entire film, you surely would have understood its message--the futility of revenge.

Rent it again (maybe from netflix) and then navel gaze some more.

-js

Sup,

Oldboy owns, owns so hard. The picture I see you showing is stupid, the only thing that is the same is the fact that both are korean males, and have a hammer over their heads. He's holding it entirely different from Oh Dae-su, their facial expressions are also different. The only image I've seen from the film with Cho that resembles something close to a thing from oldboy is the picture where he's holding the gun to his head. I agree with some of the comments I read here that state that Oldboy is a movie that shows how revenge is a complete waste of time.

- Joe

p.s. everyone, watch oldboy, it owns.

well, all i have to say is...

I disagree with everything that you wrote.

The movie is wonderful and its the last cause on earth for killing students....

Still no replies Carrie?

Hopefully your employer(s) catch wind of your failure to defend your bold and judgmental statements. As a writer you should know better.

-Daniel

I personally think everything you wrote is a load of bull. I really don't understand how you could make these presumptions. Even if he did stylise Oldboy he didnt use the hammer in his killings.

Seriously though your just trying to find reasoning or someone to blame for the massacre where as the real reasoning lies else where.

You can really ask the same question about anything. If someone sees a picture in Time showing violence, might they be motivated to do the same thing if they are easily suggestible and emotionally disturbed? What about if they see an artist performance or a painting at the museum? People are and always will be prone to suggestion. That's why the important thing is to recognize signs of mental disturbance and and get that person treatment before they act out. Censorship isn't going to work unless you make all art a blank slate.

Wow, what a non-sensical statement, the chick or the egg, really? As to draw attention away from the thousands of years of human torture that went on well before the television, radio, and internet had even the dimmest hope of achievement. Have you ever looked into a small graft of human history called the middle ages? How some people spent decades enduring torture with things that the human mind would rather forget? How the N. Koreans who have escaped the so called 'work camps,' described by those handful (meaning they can be counted on one hand) as death camps where an entire extended family, men, women, and children, are rounded up and shipped off never to see the outside world again... and then you describe OldBoy as the base reasoning for this one individual snapping? Who's to say it wasn't an abusive or anti-social childhood, perhaps being bullied, or just a plain 'bad apple.' If this is what made him snap, I'm sure there would be a rise in violent crime involving claw hammers (which he is holding backwards with regard to the movie character), don't you think? How about researching a stereotype before putting such a disgustingly absurd article up, this is pure laziness; blame without bases.