Heard in the Hall

The Governor's right. City Council is acting foolish and gutless, pandering to a small whiny group of neighbors who make outrageous claims about the casinos as if the lots on which they are to be built were an existing paradise on Delaware Ave. They are costing all Philadelphia residents potentially large additional wage tax cuts. The state should justifiably pre-empt them.

Mark from Mt Airy is dead wrong. The residents he criticizes have, for over a year, worked diligently to relocate the casinos away from homes, schools and houses of worship.

It is the Governor and Casino operators who have been unwilling to do the right thing and look for other venues.

The casinos will be built and Philadelphia will get jobs and tax relief only when the Governor and the Casinos agree to move.

Yeah, open up Act 71 to try and preempt Philadelphia. C'mon Rendell, we dare you . . . OPEN UP ACT 71. Let's have an open and transparent debate. Mark from Mt. Airy can voice his opinion -- and so can everyone else. Open up Act 71. Let's debate.

Mark,

Perhaps you need to take a look at around on your ride home tonight. See the Central Delaware Riverfront as you get close to home? Please give some thought to those of us that live close to those sites before posting to a public forum what's best for our neighborhoods.

You may want to do your research on the sites: they have been squatted on by developers since the 90s in hopes that casino gaming would come to Philly. There will be no problem developing those sites when the casinos are re-sited.

Many of us fighting these developments have never suggested the city shouldn't get a shot at tax cuts, jobs or revenue. We are simply asking they be moved outside of neighborhoods.

If they re-site the revenues will come faster because they will be built with limited opposition. If they attempt to build where they are we will fight them every step of the way. Period.

It's insensitive and misdirected to suggest we take the burden of these developments. We are fighting for the future of our homes and neighborhoods. We never suggested they place a casino in your neighborhood, please support our right of self direction in this matter.

Morgan Jones
Fishtown Resident

Far from having "no guts" our councilperson Frank DiCicco and indeed all of council have shown tremendous courage in using their legislative powers to right the process of this Slots-Barns-on-the-Delaware debacle.
They are honoring their oath to protect our citizenry.
They are righting a process that should have started here to begin with.
As for that comment...extortion by community groups...
Philadelphia Neighboorhood Alliance's persevering collective volunteer efforts are anything but a shakedown. Who are we buying off? With whom are we currying favor? These are our neighborhoods. We are representative of the volunteer backbone of this city.
We are paying taxes.
We are growing our neighborhoods.
We are part of an awakening,a reawakening of the democratic process that was born blocks from the proposed sites.
Slots barns on the riverfront, our riverfront is extortion.
Let freedom ring and not from a slots machine.

Hmmm, interesting comments from the two locals.

Ms. Jones promises better development when the casinos don't come. Like what? The big box retailers some in your neighborhood seem to favor? (Do you really need another Chuck E Cheese?) Or would you instead propose more green space -- which in these pockets would add little value for the City as a whole and in fact cost money to maintain.

And at what cost should we as a City forget casinos? It would translate into a loss of significant wage tax relief for the vast majority of Philadelphia citizens -- wage tax relief I remind you that began in Harrisburg, not in City Hall. Will City Council pony up the tens to hundreds of millions of dollars to reduce the wage tax that keep jobs moving to the suburbs? I wonder because City Council members seem determined to shut down a revenue stream that the Governor opened, yet have no ideas on their own how to replace it or or, alternately, cut the City's immense budget without somehow cutting "needed" services. I suspect Council Members are most upset that because the state approved casinos, they lost a lot of their ability to shake them down for political contributions or get their naer-do-well relatives hired. That happens in Mount Airy, it happens in my old neighborhood of Bella Vista, and shockingly I bet it even happens in Fishtown and Pennsport.

Ms. Patrone says her virtuous activism was born blocks from the proposed site. Yes, I have no doubt about that. Based on the dozens of Inqurier articles I have read, many anti-casino activists seem to live blocks from the proposed sites.

Rendell is absolutely right! The City Council is GUTLESS and they pander to a FEW. Take a ride through Fishtown--700 homes have bright red bows on them. Fishtown is SEEING RED over the politicians standing in the way of a development that will offer jobs, revenue for our city and community, and economic growth.

Mark,

I don't blame you for buying into the propaganda about the casinos solving our economic woes. But there is no such thing as a free lunch. In fact, the casinos will end up costing us much more than they will bring in. Here is a report issued by PICA, which is the state economic watchdog group, charged with overseeing Philly's budget. See what they have to say about the costs of casinos.

http://www.casinofreephila.org/files/docs/PICA.pdf

All we ask is that we have an open debate on these issues. Don't you agree that an open debate would be helpful? Let have the state legislature hold hearings. Once the debate is aired, then they can vote and decide what to do. The Gaming Act was passed in the middle of the night on the eve of a July 4th weekend.

Rendell is gutless for not allowing an open debate.

And don't give me any baloney about us voting for Rendell, who was always very pro-Gaming. Don't blame me for not wanting to vote for an ex-football player who never held elected office and hadn't even voted for the past 16 years.

Join us in a call for a debate, and then meet us at the State House. And if you want a free lunch, we'll buy you one.

"Mark from Mount Airy"? You aren't Mark from the Mount Airy Lodge Casino, are you? You work with Lou DeNaples, right?????

Peter,

I looked at the link to the report you provided. The first couple of paragraphs don't seem to agree with your contention that PICA thought casinos would cost more than they bring in.

I also very quickly found this link:

http://blogs.phillynews.com/dailynews/nextmayor/2007/09/pica_clarifies_its_position_on.html

The Daily News reported:

"In a memo emailed today, PICA clarifies:

Many of the reports about the PICA staff’s analysis of gaming have been misleading. Not only do the reports fail to mention that PICA staff said that gaming would produce immediate tangible benefits for Philadelphia, including $70 million in gaming fees, $12 million in payments in lieu of taxes and further reductions in wage tax rates, but they also make it appear that the staff report said that gaming will create a multi-hundred million dollar deficit in the City’s budget."

So, Peter, who bought whose propaganda?

btw: to respond to one poster, I have absolutely no personal financial interest in casinos coming to the City other than my steadfast belief that it will lower taxes, create jobs, and give City Council a free pass from making a lot of difficult budgetary choices they might otherwise need to confront. I should also note that another previous poster was in fact not my mother -- she never calls me Mark.

Response to Governor's Rant

"Contrary to what the Governor alleges, it is Council who has shown courage
and integrity and full recognition of their job to represent the people. It is
the governor who seems to think he is running a despotic government rather than
a democracy. Those opposed to the CURRENT PROPOSED SITES OF the two waterfront
casinos are opposed to that only, the siting. (We/they) are not opposed to
casinos or to the creation of jobs. In fact, the sooner that more appropriate
sites, at least 1500 feet away from a densely populated, highly developed
residential neighborhood can be identified, the sooner the casinos will be up
and running. It is not those opposed to the sites who are creating a delay in
the revenue stream, it is in fact, the Governor and those who refuse to
acknowledge that the sooner the move is accomplished, the sooner there will be revenue. The move to more
appropriate sites will not
only get the revenue stream moving sooner, it will create an additional source
of reve
nue by developing the current sites in a manner which will do that and genuinely
increase tourism.
Many individuals, including architects, architecture critiques, renowned
economists, gambling experts, and traffic analysts all agree that the currently
proposed sites are ill conceived and an experiment whose time has not come"

The Governor seems to forget the people from the Waterfront Communities who put him where he is in Harrisburg. If he were running for another political office he wouldn't be calling our City Council Representatives "gutless". The Govenor is the gutless one for not supporting those of us who live, work and raise our families in the communities threatened by the negative impact of casiNO's.

Maybe the investigations into the corruption associated with casinos is getting too close to the Govenor's front door.

If the original process hand been handled in an opened manner with full community participation at the outset, instead of behind the closed doors in the back rooms of Harrisburg with his investor buddies and deals he made with his up-state political cronies, as disclosed by the Philly Magazine article, he wouldn't being feeling so threatened.

If these comments continued and anything is done to undermine our Council's support we may have a civil war in this State.

Be careful Gov. watch what you say, your words may be useful in a lawsuit.

Marge Schernecke, Queen Village
Registered Democrat, 2nd Ward 15th Division

Nobody wanted that land before the casino's threatened to build there, those lots have been empty for years and years. I'm happy to see that now that the residents have woken up to the fact that they have an interest in developing the water front. Sometimes it takes a kick in the pants to get people motivated.

That land was abandoned because of environmental issues and has been more recently landbanked by speculators because Rendell has repeatedly dangled the lure of Riverboat gambling.

Now that we have a new vision for the waterfront [Penn Praxis] and see how other cities -- Chicago, Baltimore, Wilmington & Camden -- have leveraged their waterfronts for billions of dollars of smart development, we know that we can do better.

Wake up Rendell! Your legacy may be the destruction of our historic architectural heritage [Broad St] and the whole ugly DeNaples scandal that is about to explode.

Only Vince Fumo can help us move these casino sites. Only Vince Fumo can help bridge the gap between the anti-casino people and the pro-casono revenue people. We need Senator Fumo more and more every day. GO VINCE in 2008!

Only Vince Fumo can help us move these casino sites. Only Vince Fumo can help bridge the gap between the anti-casino people and the pro-casino revenue people. We need Senator Fumo more and more every day. GO VINCE in 2008!

Maggie O'B says 700 homes in Fishtown have bright red bows on them and indicates this means those homes support Casinos. Did you forget Valentines Day is coming up and many homes all over the city are decorated in the colors of Valentines Day (red & white)? Just an example of what 4 or 5 people in this made-up group spout as truth. Some people support revenue AT ANY COST. As long as you get cash it doesn't matter how or who pays for it.

Mark,

OK, so I read that PICA report and I read that Daily New piece you posted, which contains the "clarification" issued by PICA. I see nothing in the clarification that retracts even one word of the original report. The clarification takes to task "many of the reports" about the original report, not the original report itself (and all Peter said was "see what they have to say" and then he provided a link to the report itself, so everyone can see for themselves).

The only thing that PICA said was that if the academic studies are correct, then the Philly casinos "would" result in deficits in the City Budget of hundreds of million of dollars. That statement is unretracted and stands as strong today as the day it was published.

So given that the most credible economic watchdog group says that the Philly casinos would bust our budget . . . can we at least agree that a debate is warranted?

Why are you so scared about reopening the Gaming Act so the legislature can hold hearings? If you are correct, and these casinos will be so great, wouldn't you want the law amended so that we can have a 3rd slots parlor, and a 4th, and a 5th . . . .

Seven hundred homes in Fishtown have REQUESTED RED BOWS to show their displeasure with our elected representatives. FACT has almost SIX HUNDRED members--do not confuse us with CasinoFree Steve

the casinos will help phila and Dicco
is foolish we know he dos not a tax brack
but we do the riverfront is all of phila not just fishtown joe port richmond

Maggie O'Brien's started Fishtown FACT, the pro-casino group, after the Fishtown Neighbor's Association (FNA) voted to NOT negotiate with casinos. She didn't get her way - so she started what amounts to a splinter group.

Maggie speaks about 700 bows...but on my corner one of these bows sits on a rental property that has been vacant for over a year. So much for the numbers she cites...

Fishtown has voted against casinos. South Philadelphia and Northern Liberties have a much, much stronger consensus AGAINST casinos.

The casinos can be moved and the dubious casino revenue will come in. Why ruin the riverfront and reduce people's quality of life in the process?

I think DiCicco has acted with courage to do what right.

Anyone who would want a casino in their neighborhood should have their head examined.

With the looming Girard Avenue Interchange project (until 2017) - who would want an additional 40,000-60,000 cars on Delaware Avenue? Traffic will be a nightmare.

If you had children in those neighborhoods - would you feel your children were safe as drunk-drivers avoid I-95 congestion via small Fishtown and Pennsport streets?

Somehow, pro-casino people rationalize increases in drunk-driving, traffic, and property crime...saying "it won't be THAT bad". I ask: is an increase in crime ever good?

Oh, and wake up Fishtown. At least half of the jobs you want will go to the minorities you made sure didn't move into your neighborhood in the 1970's and 1980's.

The leftover jobs? Have fun cleaning rooms, waiting tables, and being parking attendants. These jobs will not change your life.

Do you really think SugarHouse is going to put a suit on you make you a gaming executive?

Luke,

Casino jobs of the type you disparage are typically union jobs which means that they frequently have a living wage and offer health benefits. They are better paying hospitality jobs. Yes, you are right in that they are not executive jobs. But the City needs decent jobs for non-college-educated citizens as well. Manufacturing will not come back in any appreciable numbers and the port can only grow so much. The big box retailers which have sprouted near Pennsport have created jobs that, I wager, are lowing paying and have worse benefits than the new casino jobs will. Were you busy trying to thwart their arrival, or do you shop at the WalMart and take your kids to the Chuck E Cheese and not think twice about those workers?

And, yes, Luke, many of those casino jobs will go to minorities. Do you have a problem with that or were you merely being arch?

Mount Airy Mark-

I was being sarcastic about the minority hiring. I just find it ironic, given Fishtown's past, that half of these jobs will go to minorities.

And you still don't get it, Mark. Move the casinos to places that will not impact neighborhoods and families. State Rep. Mike O'Brien and Inquirer columnist Inga Saffron proposed moving them to the old Phila overseas terminal where there are no homes - and plenty of parking and existing public transportation infrastructure. Then you get the jobs, benefits, and tax revenue.

Why doesn't Rendell want to move these casinos from the riverfront? Because his politically-connected friends who are investors don't want him to move them!

And who does Rendell serve? His millionaire and billionaire friends? Or the residents fo the riverwards?

At the same time, you can develop the waterfront according to Harris Steinberg's WONDERFUL Penn Praxis vision. Have you seen it? I bet you didn't. Studies prove that mixed use develop along the river could not only provide Phila with a world-class riverfront - but billions in economic development. Penn Praxis is not calling for "condos" - like Fishtown FACT people would like you to believe. They are calling for extending the street grid to the river and mixing that with green space, industry, and restaurants. They are calling to create a new Philadelphia neighborhood.

People like Maggie O'Brien and her FACT comrades want a quick nickel over a slow dime. if they could just be patient - in 15-20 years they might be living in ne of Philadelphia's most livable and vibrant neighborhoods. Instead, they'll turn back the clock to 1990...but they'll have they're $15/hour jobs (that they could have gotten if the casino had relocated).

I get it, Mark. You don't live near these casinos - so you don't care. You'll disparage people who live near them as whiners. But judging by the tenacity and stubborness of your emails - if you DID live near them - you'd probably be screaming into a bullhorn and leading the protest.

You love your tax break though. But you're not getting a true tax break anyway. The average household will save $186 in property tax. Rendell himself admits that when he raises the sales tax - the average net savings will be $6. Google it.

Talk all you want from Mount Airy, Mark. But if you were honest with yourself, and if you lived just a handful of blocks from the casino...you'd be up and arms too.

Luke,

In your second last paragraph, did you mean wage tax decrease or property tax decrease? Because residents of the City of Philadelphia get a decrease in their wage tax, not a reduction in their property taxes.

So that I may follow your argument, could you please post the link to what you are referring? Thanks, Luke.

I am tenacious about this because I am looking for an argument against the casinos that can stand up to scrutiny, and I haven't found anything that comes close to it yet. The best I've heard so far is your "Yes, do let us build the casinos, just not here". The problem I find with that is the people who say it often seem not to really mean it.

Yes, Mark, I did mean a reduction in wage tax - not property tax.

It's actually a $6.21 in NET SAVINGS under Rendell's global plan.

http://www.budget.state.pa.us/budget/lib/budget/newsletters/ob_march_07_newsletter.pdf

It's nothing but a shell game Rendell is playing.

And wait until the Commonwealth reassesses our property taxes based on FULL VALUE. It's coming. Then the people of Pennsport and Fishtown (AND very possibly Mount Airy), who have seen dramatic increases in property value in recent years - will likely see MAJOR increases in property tax:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/20080109_City_tax_board_holds_off_on_full-value_assessment.html

p.s. - Foxwoods, because it is a tribal casino, does not have to allow unions.

recently, their 3000 CT dealers unionized...but not all the other employees. the tribe fought very hard against it. Foxwoods Phila does not have table games yet.

we'll see how generous the tribe is to local workers at Foxwoods.

I voted for Ed Rendell four times, each time he won for Mayor of Philadelphia and Governor of PA.

Does he think I'm wrong for voting for him? I guess not. But he surely thinks I'm wrong because I disagree with him on this issue. THE GOVERNOR IS DEAD WRONG AND HE DOES NOT KNOW IT BECASUE HIS PASSION FOR THE CASINOS BEING PLACED IN NEIGHBORHOODS OF THE CITY IS SO GREAT THAT ALL THE "YES" MEN AND WOMEN STAFF/ADVISORS THAT HE HAS WOULDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT TELLING HIM THAT STUDIES SHOW THAT HE IS LIKELY TO BE 85 TO 90 % WRONG. MORE TAHN 80% OF PHILADELPHIANS DO NOT WANT THE CASINOS THIS CLOSE TO NEIGHBORHOODS THAT IS WHY THEY ARE SUPPORTING THE MAYOR NUTTER AND NOT HIM ON THE CASINO MATTER. YOU HAVE TO BE A GREAT MAN, WITH WISDOM, HUMILITY AND A STRONG SPIRIT TO CHANGE COURSE ON SOMETHING YOU BELIEVE IN SO MUCH BUT LEARNED THAT IT IS THE WRONG POSITION TO TAKE.

It is clear that an open and democratic vote would have proved him wrong. That is why he didn't support a vote on the matter. iF H EDID HE WOULD HAVE SAID TO HIS ATTORNEY GENERAL TO GO TO THE SUPREMEM COURT AND AT LEAST KLET THE PEOPLE VOTE AND IF THEY VOTED HIS WAY THEIR WOULD BE NO FURTHER ACTION. IF THEY VOTED FOR THE 1500 FOOT BUFFER HE COULD HAVE THEN SAID TO THE COURTS DO NOT LET COUNCIL PROCEED WITH WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT. HE FAILED TO BECAUSE HE KNEW WHAT THE OUTCOME WOULD BE. GOVERNOR RENDELL HAS ANY ONE ASKED YOU LAETLEY IF YOU BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY? THINK BEFORE YOU ANSWER BECASUE YOU MIGHT WANT TO BE RIGHT ON THAT AS WELL AND ANSWER, YES. BUT YOU WOULD BE WRONG AGAIN BECAUSE YOU DO NOT BELIEVE INDEMOCRACY SINCE YOU TOOK THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE AWAY. YOU CAN'T HAVE DEMOCRACY ONLY WHEN YOU WANT IT. He wants everyone to just be quiet and get out of his way because in his uniformed mind he thinks the casinos are the greatest thing.

He is/was a wise man ( that is why I voted for him initially) some would suggest that his pride far exceeds his wisdom because if he was wise and knew the facts he would not put Philadelphia or PA in this bind. It could be that he is a lame duck and doesn't care how many people he will offend - he doesn't need us any more. Proverbs 16:18 from the good old testamnet says " Pride goeth before destruction, and a haugthy spirit before a fall"

Connecticut's repeal movement of their gaming laws after only 10 years is a testament of what they have done to that state. Warren Buffet,a very smart(even commensense) and wealthy man but sensitive, believes he should pay more taxes than those with less fortune. Buffet was the one in his own state of Nebraska, that lead the charge that the casinos are not a sound economic engine but create losses for the state. That is why that state does not have them.

Maryland to the south of PA does not have legalized gaming because they know that all of the studies show that they costs more than what they bring in. This could be why why the casinos and Rendell look like they may be in a Pimp and prostitute relationship. What other industry/corporation does Rendell know of that he has asked that they pay 52 cents on every dollar earned? The answer is none. Usuualy, Rendell/govt. is giving industries/corporations breaks to expand or relocate to PA look at the Comcast deal in Philadelphia.

It is a real shame that this has gotten way beyond his own capacity to control it. That is evidenced by the fact that he is disregarding all of the people that have supported him (the 80% in Philly that want the casinos moved - the majority of them who supported him).

Why has an elected official at his level stooped so low as to call regular everyday folks (80% of the city who want the casinos moved) radicals/community groups that have to be told no? We are: Christian, Jews, Muslims, Black, White ,Hispanic, male, female, young, old, poor, middleclass, and wealthy across the city of Piladelphia.

Even if all of us did not want the casinos in Philly we at least want him to move them. Be a democratic leader - allow for a vote on the 15000 buffer or do not veto the 1500 foot buffr legislation in Harrisburg. You did not want want us to have a say - what are you afraid of? That you would be wrong and everyone else would be right? The neighboring state of Ohio voted twice to defeat gaming in their state. Are we, your constiuents not as worthy as Ohians?

Let the city have the license for the two casinos in Philadelphia like Illinois his doing with Chicago. They can monitor how much money they take in and make sure that they pay for themselves before they attack the city budget or force the city taxpayers for paying for additional costs for having casinos in their mist. Or Philadelphia can hand their license back to the state of PA if they find out they aren't what you believed they were going to be. Are the elected officials in Ohio, Nebraska, Illinois, Conneticut smarter, more transparent,and more democratic than Rendell? Obviously!!!

Rendell show us how you can refute the studies across the country for more than 20 years that show that casinos are more harm then good and costs more to the local and state govts, and tax payers than the revenue they generate. Show us that they do not increase crime, prostitution, decrease property values, cause intra-familial violence, poverty, and social ills beyond compare. You can't.

Rendell, is not committed to neighborhoods. He is not connected to one. He doesn't understand that it is less of a cost (financially, spiritually, and emotionally) for me to go to jail for a week or two fighting the location of the casino than to suffer the loss of my neighborhood either because he kills the neighborhood from the casino and/or I leave the neighborhood because my wife and I do not want to raise our two kids in a low, cheap, ungodly, crime ridden, glitzy second class environment that casinos cause. The fight is just beginning let the rich continue to loss money and let the poor keep the money they have in their pockets as the casinos continue to be delayed because they are to proud, arrogant, and unwise to move. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!