Soft Pretzel Logic

Since my alma mater is nowhere near the Top 100 in the Sagarin, I have the following position:

It really doesnt matter where we are. We arent that good, dont pretend we are that good, and its really "water under the bridge" where we fall.

Hypothetically, ff we jumped from 92 to 70, I wouldnt be that happy. Or if we dropped from 110 to 132, I wouldnt be that upset.

That being said, I am curious about the 3 programs you mentioned today.

Temple may be improving, but they are still pretty bad in the big picture.

Villanova and Penn also know where they stand.

Villanova could improve but still falls into the middle of the pack, as per the rankings.

And so what does it really matter if Penn is 184 or 187? They appear to be a subpar team (sadly) in a very subpar conference this season.

And of course, they are not going anywhere at the end of the season, since Ivy League doesnt allow post-season play in football. I suppose this really only impacts the conference winner. Not as if Columbia or one of the other bottom feeders have to worry about this.

Do you honestly think Penn fans care about this stat?

Or better yet, do Penn fans even care? Based on attendance at Franklin Field, the answer speaks for itself

In response to Fred, I do care about Penn's ranking. I'm a current undergrad at Penn, and even if we don't fill up Franklin Field, that doesn't mean we don't care about the program. (I guarantee you no other Philadelphia area school could fill up Franklin Field either.) While you're correct the Ivy League champion doesn't go to the playoffs, that doesn't mean the regular season is a complete waste (although I definitely hate this restriction).

Judging by your comments about your alma mater not being near the top 100, I assume you went to La Salle. Well just because your school is the worst team in D-I, and thus probably nobody cares about the team, doesn't mean other schools don't care.

Zach Klitzman
Penn Class of 2010.

To Zach K

What makes you think that I did attend LaSalle?

I merely said, "Since my alma mater is nowhere near the Top 100 in the Sagarin"

I said nothing to the effect that I attended one of the local school, which JT covers so well.

So I am curious as to what drove you to make that assumption.

On another note, I am just as curious for your explanation as to why YOU FEEL the Penn students do not show up ON THE WHOLE to support their football team.

Based on what I have been told, and see in the attendance, the student body ON THE WHOLE does not show up to the games.

Looking forward to your response.

Best
Fred
_____ University
Class of 1992

If I may waddle in here for a minute...

Fred, I've actually heard the opposite from people who go to Penn games -- the students show up but very few other people do. If the Georgetown game I covered was any indication, it looked like there were one or two sections of students and the rest of the place was pretty well empty.

I've heard before from Penn people that a lot of the Penn students don't care about sports. This is also reflected in their basketball student section, which pales in comparison to St. Joe's and Villanova -- both of which have far smaller undergraduate enrollments. And they don't show up early the way those two fan bases do.

Having said that, I have a hard time believing people go to Penn to be fans at basketball and football games...

And I should add that I have no idea where Fred went to school and don't really care, but I wasn't assuming La Salle.

Wasn't assuming Texas or USC either, though.

One or two sections out of a student population of 10,138 undergrad is pretty sparse in my book...

I would think the undergrads would show up with more strength than the 1-2 sections.

I can understand why the alumni dont show up -- the composition of the base is much more national than regional.

Citation to
http://www.upenn.edu/about/facts.php

I'm somewhat familiar with Penn football and can tell you that there are a few things that hurt Penn's ability to draw student football fans. First, and I hope this doesn't come across as racIST, merely racIAL, but football always seemed to me to do well in the white and black demographics. Penn has a lot of students, whether they be Asian-American, Indian-American, etc. or among the large contingent of foreign-born students, who just don't care about football. Villanova, for instance, doesn't have that in such high numbers. So maybe a better comparison would be to other schools in the conference, which also have large non-white, non-black American populations and large foreign populations.

Second, I think football isn't promoted nearly as well as basketball, which the campus seems to rally around to a greater degree. And the third reason is that a large number of Penn students get drunk on Friday nights and don't do well rolling out of bed for noon games. Although that's probably the case at most schools that insist on playing early in the day.