The Zo Zone

But what will John Middleton do with himself if he gives the Phillies more payroll flexibility?

Oh my, $2.9 million. I fear for the wellbeing of he and his family.

Todd:

I think it really comes down to the decision to be a flash in the pan or a consistent winner. Do you want a pennant or WS ring every 20 years or a chance to win every year.

Right now the Phillies have a core that can win for the next 5-10 years. But they need a few more pieces to get past the first round. They have that godawful potential thing.

The fans have done their job showing up pretty consistently since they got the new ballpark. And now the question is what's the next move on the Phillies management's part. Just enough or over the top?? Long term that answer may not come until Howard gets his chance at free angency.

Me personally, I love Rowand but I'd rather have Torii Hunter. Or at least know that the GM was allowed to make a real run at him or the Johans' and Cabreras' when they become available. Show me that they see the potential and are not just going to ride it to second best while laughing all the way to the bank.

More importantly, show the CORE of the team that when they laid it all out like they did 2007, somebody in management noticed and realizes they can't just BANK on miracles every year. It's their turn to step up.

That's $2.9 Billion, not Million. But remember, he is just a limited partner, he doesn't even own a controlling share of the team.

I agree with Todd on this. I don't think they need to spend another $20 million to make things happen. Its not like throwing more money at the situation guarantees anything. I understand that we see the brass ring and think the owners should willingly spend whatever it takes to bring in whoever we think will get us there, but its not necessarily the right approach. Why tie up more money in long term expensive contracts that we know the fans will be complaining about in 3 years anyway?? Look at Pat Burrell, Abreu, David Bell, now Eaton.. This was money spent and you couldn't fault them for being cheap, but now we complain that the money gets wasted on these guys.

Re-sign Rowland already. Look at as a one year investment where payroll will be higher than budgeted, as Burrell's contract (and his $14 million) is in it's last year. In 2009, we won't be stuck with that salary, unless we voluntarily resign Burrell.

If Rowand wants 14 million per for 6 years, its not a 1 year investment, its an absurd investment. He's not worth that much for 1 year, let alone 6. If they can sign him for $10mil per for 3 or 4 years, sure - but even that is overpaying for a guy who had a career year at age 30..

I liken the current Phillies situation to the Sixers a few years ago. Not a perfect analogy, but I think it works.

The Sixers were so concerned with finding stopgap measures every off-season, like Kenny Thomas, Derrick Coleman, etc, that they lost sight of the big picture and dug themselves into a financial hole that they couldn't get out of for five years. Obviously there's no salary cap in baseball, but the Phillies operate with a limited budget.

Instead of breaking the bank for a player like Rowand for a short-term gain (one, two years at most), it's probably a better idea to take a pass, gain flexibility next offseason and continue to build up the farm system. The Phillies will still be competitive, still have a shot at the postseason. Howeever, if they sign Rowand to a 5 or 6 year deal, you're going to regret having him for 4 of those years. When he gets older and his already-average defense declines, then he's your left-fielder. He doesn't provide enough offense (even in his career year) to be considered an above-average corner outfielder.

Same thing could go for Lohse. In a terrible FA market like this offseason, I'd rather have them take a pass on mediocre talent.

Can we please stop begging to resign a guy who had a career year in a contract year! Rowan reminds me of the line from field of dreams were costner said shoeless joe's glove is where doubles went to die. Except rowan in center is where singles blossom into triples.

I would much rather spend the money it would take to get him or the other name CFs and use it on our scouting department or coaching staff. I mean seriously we have been able to bring along talents such as utley, howard, myers, and hamels...and I would even throw madson in there. We have never been able to find a coach to get the most out of burrell (which at this point is probably more him than anyone else). And the last one that got away that I can remember is Sandberg. So that tells me over the last decade we have been able to draft and develope 4 star quality players and a couple of dozen servicable guys. Does this seem like a problem to anybody else? With the MLB draft like 60 rounds it is pathetic that we have had such little success.

If Todd didn’t already win my “That guy makes too much sense” award for the day I would give it to Tim.

Rowand is looking to get paid as a premier outfielder. Realistically he isn’t. He’s had one premier year in the middle of his “prime” years. It doesn’t make sense for the team to overpay for him when the team already has Victorino / Werth, and thinks Helm will step it up at the plate.

Scoring runs will not be a problem without Rowand. We'll still have a great scoring team. His carreer nubers are just average, lets not get carried away. He's a good centerfielder,not a great one. Lets stop waisting our time and move on from Rowand talk. NEXT QUESTION ? I know he's a leader, but baseball doesn't have huddles..

....and thinks Helms will step it up at the plate? Based on what? They thought a lot of things that didn't pan out. Burrell would hit consistently, Eaton would pitch well enough to be a #3, catchers would catch and hit..... Offer Rowand 3 years at 10 or 12 a year and be done with it. If he takes it, great, if not, so what? Turn the page and move on. There are other CF and 3B out there. One of them will most likely take a 3 year deal at 10 or 12. There are also pitchers out there and one of them should take the 10 or 12 at 3 years. I think the pitching is fine for now and CF or 3B should get whats left.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE tell Phillies management to resign Aaron Rowand. He plays all-out every game, respects the game and he's a true Philly-type player who wants to play here. The Phils only finished one game above the Mets this year and if they want to stay there they need to keep their best players and Rowand certainly is one. Do you think the Mets would let him (Gold Glove, Sporting News NL All Star) get away, NO WAY! Are we counting on another monumental collapse by the Mets? Do the Phils want to compete for the wild card with 5 or 6 other teams? I think the answer to both is NO! Let's not forget about the Braves having Texiera for a full year. Resign Rowand and maybe pick up a back end of the rotation pitcher like Wolfe or Colon and I say let's get the season started. Didn't Wolfe pitch out of the bullpen a few times for the Phils (in case Eaton should surprise us)? Let's get some of that fresh cigar money and put it into a quality player like Rowand. If Phillies management wants to know what the phans think, just tell them to read your blog or any other with Phillies phans. ROWAND, ROWAND, ROWAND. Let's start a new cheer P-H-I-L-L-I-E-S, PHILLIES! Maybe that way we can forget about the Iggles season.

i don't know where you guys are getting that rowand is a terrible defender. the guy did win a gold glove this year with fantastic defense. do none of you remember him going face first into the unpadded wall to make a catch in 06? and he is not mediocre talent. having rowand in center and keeping victorino in right is much better than moving victorino to center and having a combination of werth/dobbs/roberson/bruntlett in right. we need to retain rowands right handed bat in the lineup also

Man Todd that was a fantastic argument until you typed ", terrible ." They are not cheap but the are terrible. They constantly hire the wrong people and funnle their money into the wrong places. Is there any reason why the phillies should not be able to build a fantastic farm system like the Red Sox have buy paying top talent not to go to college. Is there any reason that the smart GM's of the lower payroll teams that you mention above are not the Phillies GM. Yes there is. It is because of the Phillies ownership and their decision making.

Rowand going face first into that wall was the worst thing that could've happened to the Phillies. If he wasn't such a folk hero people would see him for what he is, an average hitter with 20 HR potential who plays average defense. He misplayed numerous balls last year and if you compare Victorino or Bourn to Rowand defensively it's not even close. Rowand is vastly overrated because he ran into a wall. And don't give me the "but he won a gold glove" argument because lets not forget who also won a gold glove a few years ago, one of my favorite players, Bobby Abreu who had no business winning one. In fact I would take Abreu over Rowand in a heartbeat.

Do you remember when Bobby Abreu won a Gold Glove? Gold Gloves mean next to nothing, but that’s not the point. The point it that Rowand isn't a terrible defender at all. He’s avery good to great defender. It’s just that Vicortino is better.

Rowand's Zone Rating is .889, Victorino’s is .930.

Rowand has a weak arm that he tries to use like it's a strong arm and over throws the cut off, Victorino has a cannon.

Rowand went face first into a wall, Victorino went airborne into the stands for a foul. So it’s not like Shane won’t give the effort.

Werth has good Zone Rating was .912 and he also has a stronger arm then Rowand. According to the numbers from last year the team actually becomes better defensively with Burrell, Victorino, and Werth.

Of course Dobbs stinks in the outfield, but that’s why I think they are looking for another outfielder to platoon with Werth and to be Burrell’s late inning sub.

I don’t think any of us who think Phillies should let Aaron walk think he’s a bad player.

It just the Phillies already have a viable replacement that is younger and cheaper. Out field is not where the money needs to be spent. The team needs pitching, more then anything.

Remember when the Red Sox let Damon walk? It wasn’t because they didn’t like him, it was because he was going to be paid more then he was worth for more years then he could conceivably play at a high level. By all indications that’s what is about to happen to Aaron. It ain’t personal, it’s just good business.

Forget Rowand. We'll be fine without him.

Just imagine J-Roll, Utley and Howard improving. They haven't reached their potential nor have they entered their primes yet.

There needs to be an edit button. :)

Todd, I enjoy reading your blog. I have issues with all the authors indicating that the Phillies need another starting pitcher. From my memory, the Phillies have Hamels, Myers, Moyer, Kendrick and Eaton. I do understand that Eaton may be injured and that the Phillies need someone in case Eaton is really injured or Kendrick has a slump. However, if the decission is between a starting CF and a starting 3B against acquiring more pitching, I must disagree that the Phillies need pitching.
I believe you stated the other day that the answer to baseball is runs. Either score more runs than the other team or give up less runs than the other team. The Phillies have three good starters as the front three staters. Kendrick and Eaton will give the Phillies league average at the fourth and fifth starters. However, the Phillies were below league average at 3B, and with the loss of Rowand, the Phillies will have to rely on Victorino and Werth. Victorino missed time last season through injry. Werth did as well. In addition, Werth makes a more valuable fourth outfielder than he does a starting outfielder, even with his stats. I believe the Phillies need an everyday centerfielder. Now the question is whether the Phillies need Rowand. The Phillies finally made it over the hump last season. One of the reasons was Rowand. The Phillies starters were struggling last season, and the Phillies have now upgraded that position. However, if the Phillies are able to secure the same production from a CF that Rowand can provide, I believe the Phillies need to seek that. But Rowand for 12 Mil/year for 4 or 5 years is appropriate. I do not believe the Phillies would stop if they can add a 3B as well. The Phillies were well below league average at 3B. Numerous players are available via trade. I do agree to not give up Haigwood or Carasco. However, I believe Robertson is fine to move, along with other young players. In addition, if the Phillies can rid themselves of Wes Helms, I am further in favor of any trade that can be made. Rolen is available via trade. I know he left the Phillies under bad terms, but when healthy, he is still above average. I believe that the Phillies can get Rolen for Helms, Robertson and a quality young player. Or the Phillies can go Free Agency with Pedro Feliz, who has quitely placed above league average at 3B since 2003. Lastly, there are other alternatives not discussed. If a league MVP like A-Rod could move to 3B, why don't the Phillies consider moving Utley back to 3B and re-sign 2B Iguchi. I believe that this move would probably be best to address all the issues the Phillies had. Utley's production is equivalent to above average 3B, and Iguchi provides what the Phillies need from a 2B. I believe that offense at this point is now more important than pitching. There are many pitchers that can be had for a spring tranining invite that could produce well and challenge for starting positions. I do not believe the Phillies need to pay more money for more questionable pitching.

This team can not afford to lose Aaron Rowand unless they off-set it with a signing like Lowell. An outfield of Burrell, Victorino, and Werth scares me a lot if you are also weak at 3rd base. The offense could slip a lot if they let Rowand walk and Werth and Victorino do not produce at a high level and third base remains an offensive black hole. You should be able to win with a payroll of 105 million but not when 25-30 million of it is wasted on mediocrity like Burrell and Eaton. Money shouldn't be an issue either way. If they need to spend 10 million more then expected to be a lot stronger this year then they should do it. No one is asking them to spend as much as the Yankees or Red Sox just dont let another 10 million dollars or possibly less hold you back from making moves you need to.

This team can not afford to lose Aaron Rowand unless they off-set it with a signing like Lowell. An outfield of Burrell, Victorino, and Werth scares me a lot if you are also weak at 3rd base. The offense could slip a lot if they let Rowand walk and Werth and Victorino do not produce at a high level and third base remains an offensive black hole. You should be able to win with a payroll of 105 million but not when 25-30 million of it is wasted on mediocrity like Burrell and Eaton. Money shouldn't be an issue either way. If they need to spend 10 million more then expected to be a lot stronger this year then they should do it. No one is asking them to spend as much as the Yankees or Red Sox just dont let another 10 million dollars or possibly less hold you back from making moves you need to.