The Zo Zone

Happy Thanksgiving Zo,

You refer to the Phils budget and it made me think of their ownership structure (Conlin's teflonics). I've been hoping for a current co-owner to step up or a new owner to step in, as unlikely as it may be, but I'm curious to your opinion on the "buck-stops-here" single owner situations versus what we have here. For every Henry or Steinbrenner there seems to be an Angelos or that guy who owns the Rangers.

Excellent assessment of the rotation. Lohse certainly proved he can pitch here - the Phillies were 9-2 in his starts (although I'm concerned that he rarely made it through 6 innings). He's young and healthy - I'd rather get someone like him or Silva than roll the dice on a cheaper but injury-prone pitcher such as Wolf. Also, few of our starters were able to stay in the game for more than 5 innings, making it critical that we have bullpen depth. While Lidge has good stuff, he may not have the mental toughness. We really should've tried to land Cordero and let Lidge set up.

I don't think a co-owner can "step up." There's a budget even if a particular co-owner happens to have billions of dollars from selling a cigar business. The only hope there, from my understanding, is that enough co-owners agree to sell their stake to the billionaire so he becomes majority owner and can make all the decisions. But that's assuming he even wants that. There has been no indication so far that he does. It think the ownership structure is what it is until we hear otherwise. We also know that spending alone isn't always the answer, as teams with lower payrolls than the Phillies have won it all. One of their biggest problems right now, in my opinion, is a weak farm system.

Todd - I agree with you on Kuroda. I'd take him over Rowand. I love Rowand and you are correct that Kuroda is an unknown but our rotation still needs something. I have no faith in Eaton turning things around and Moyer, while I love him, is getting older and maybe needs to be rested more to be effective. I'd take a shot at Kuroda over a 6 year Rowand deal. Thinking like Phillies management, I also don't like a 6 year Rowand deal even though I love the guy as a player. 3 years into that and it could end up like a Burrell situation. Although I have to say I like the way Pat turned his season around last year. Let's hope that continues into 2008.

Zo, why aren't the Phils going harder for Lohse??? He really stepped up when needed, and would cost much less than Silva. They'd look much better going into next season with a re-signed Lohse, and a one year contract for a vet like Kris Benson or someone like that.

You're right on that Eaton can not be counted on. They need to be going into the season with Hamels, Myers, Kendrick, Moyer and two other starters not named Eaton.

My predictions. Agreed Rowand will walk probably to the Dodgers since he is a southern Califronia guy. Look what they did for Wolfie and Lieby. The F.O. will try and fail to upgrade pitching. Durbin, Rosario, and Outman will be the three given shots to add to the SP inventory in ST. Then they will over pay for a third baseman because they can not compete with Dobbs/Helms at third. They will give Golson a shot in center coming off a good Fall Ball season where he cut down on his K's and finished strong at the plate. And will wind up with Vic in center on opening day.

I agree Trackboy1. Let's see, two starters not named Eaton ... Lieber and Garcia? Oops ...

Any idea what sort of interest Lohse has gotten? Kuroda supposedly has lots of interest and would prefer to be on the west coast. I think he may go to the Mariners.

I made a joke about Lieber but he hasn't been as bad as Eaton when he's healthy.

The health of the whole rotation is a concern. Both Hamels and Myers have been hurt. I think they need 6 going into spring training and maybe for the whole season.

Rowand will sign with the Dodgers, expect announcement Sunday or Monday.
We need pitching, every starter (except Moyer) was on the DL as were Madson and Gordon.
Expecting the Mets to collapse again next year is a dream, we need every pitcher we can sign.

I think Myers health will be fine next year. He has always been healthy while being a starter. Last season when they threw him into the closers role, he hurt himself from pitching to much and never having time to adjust to pitching so often. We DO need all the pitching we can get, so stay aggresive Pat!

I'm more worried about the Braves than the Mets in '08. I presume Hampton will be back, and they've acquired Glavine. Add in Smoltz and Hudson, that's a good rotation.

Great to hear everyone getting on the same page about Rowan. We really can't afford to spend money foolishly,with that so called cap the Phillies are putting out there. Yankees can make mistakes like Damon, we can't...

I think it's pretty safe to say that last year was a career year for Rowand. Teams with budgets have to look to sign guys coming off exceptionally bad years.

I don't want to see Rowand go anywhere else, but I'm not willing to mortgage the next six years of signing ability for one guy and a divisional round exit from the playoffs.

Rowand is terrific, and if he is willing to pull a Mike Lowell and sign for less to stay with his old team, well, go for it. But that isn't going to happen - unless his only other choice is KC, maybe.

Think of this...if the Phils had made a deadline deal and traded Aaron Rowand for any legitimate #1 or #2 starter, they would have clinched a playoff spot at least a week before they did.

I want Rowand back. But I want to win more than I want any individual player.

I believe that Kuroda will end up with the Mariners. The Mariners have former Japanese catcher Kenji Johjima and this will provide Kuroda a level of comfort that other MLB teams can't provide.
As for Bret Myers, I believe his return to the rotation will be sucessful. At least as sucessful as before the closer experiment. Watching the few appearences that Myers had before his strained shoulder, you could see that he was reaching back on his fastball and throwing as hard as possible. He was touching 97 mph on the radar gun. I believe this is why he strained his shoulder. Going back to the rotation, Myers will be able to use all his pitches and revert back to his 93 mph fastball which will cause less stress to his shoulder.
I believe that the Borne trade will come back to haunt the Phillies. Watching the few times Borne lead off this past season, you could see Borne has an incredible batting eye for a player with such little MLB experience. This season, leading off for the Astros, he could have 100 walks and a .400 on-base percentage.

rumorman, for a guy who believes in Bourn a lot, you should at least know how to spell his name correctly.

Losing Rowan would not be the end of the world but with Bourn gone would push the Phillies to get a bench player. I actually think the Phillies are better with Burrell, Victorino and Werth.

There just isn't that much left out there to improve the Phillies so I'm thinking that what we have now is what we go into the season with.

My question is if Helms deserves another shot at third. I liked the deal when they signed him and like others projected him to bat fifth. I thought he had .280, 20 HR's and 80 RBI's in him. If we can get those kind of numbers from any third baseman (Dobbs?) then outscoring teams becomes the style of ball we play.

If they sign Kuroda then Iguchi stays. So now you have to start thinking of number of roster spots available.

Tadahito Iguchi will not be back. he's a second baseman and we already have the best second baseman in the game on our team. he doesn't want to play third and he'll get a job playing second somewhere. the good news is that Iguchi did break the Japanese barrier for us and now the Phils have some name recognition and traction in Japan. that should help with the Kuroda pitch. clearly, the Mariners have the edge right now, but I'm not convinced it's a done deal. Torii Hunter was, after all, pretty much a done deal to Texas or the ChiSox and look how that turned out. i think Kuroda is the best free-agent starter out there and the Phils ought to push hard for him.

I am not sold that an above average pitcher in Japan can necessarily contribute over here. Matsuzaka was the equivalent of a Roger Clemens-in-his-prime in Japan. I would be happy to have him in my rotation, but he's not dominant. Then, given the very up-and-down record of other japanese pitchers, I think its a red-flag that some of the more fiscally liberal teams aren't overwhleming the phils in the chase for Kuroda. Call me a cynic, but the Phillies aren't known for pulling one over on other teams. Why aren't they more involved? It's not as if the Yanks couldn't use another starter.

Scott Podsednik anyone??? The White sox just cut him and maybe a change of scenery will help him,oh, and CBP!!

$$$$. I've long grown tired of reading about saleries in the Sports section. I realize we will never escape that, so why not start using that declining payroll room on something fresh. When Freddie Shero was coach of the Flyers, one of his stated aims was to bring in at least one fresh face from the minors every year. This team has to get it's Farm System back to the quality of the Carpenter Era. This is exactly why Atlanta has stayed on top for so long while allowing Glavine, Maddux, Milwood, Furcal, A. Jones, etc. to "walk."

Scott Podsednik? Can he pitch? Is he better defensively at third. About as useful as Snelling.

I also think Myers will stay healthy as a starter. Hamels is scarier. Get him a chiropractor and be done with it!

jimmymack mentioned Madson. I think a lot of people forget what he added to the bullpen and we definitely missed him when he went down. So let's hope he stays healthy. That said, I'd still like one other back-end bullpen guy. Gordon can, in my opinion, be an asset if he's used wisely. At his age you can't overuse him.

And I'd like two more starters. The problem is with the payroll/budget we're not going to get any Cy Young winners. Given the choice of Wolf or Kuroda, I'd take Kuroda. Yes, he's an unknown and a risk but Wolf's a known injury risk. Kuroda, and Japanese pitchers in general, seem to have more of a workhorse mentality and often pitch a lot of innings. But I think Kuroda's a longshot to land in Philly even if we want him. Silva maybe? He seems overrpriced and I'm not sure how he'd fare at CBP. Lohse seems like a decent, lower priced option.

Is Wolf such an injury risk? Isn't the surgery he had supposed to be a one-time cure-all sort of procedure? I suspect that his discount rate and his left-handedness will make an appealing option for the Phils' front office.

I also take issue with the "NEED" for a stronger offensive player at 3B. If the Phils led the NL in most every offensive category last year, even without Rowand back they will still put up plenty of runs. To compare our 3B to other 3B on offense alone is strange to me; all runs count equally no matter defensive position a batter plays during the other half of the game. In other words, few SS produce what Rollins can produce at the plate; ditto for Chase Utley. And although power numbers are common for 1B, Howard still out-produces most of his 1B peers. Basically, I am OK if they put in Dobbs for five or six innings and sub him out for Nunez or some other defensively-skilled option to hold onto a lead.

Phil's show effort with the attempt to sign Lowell. Rowand is not worth any big contract, everyone says he is a great club house guy, true, but so is Utley, Rollins, and Myers. Rowand had 1 great season, '07 and 1 good season in his professional career, '02 i think. Every other year has been mediocre. Bourn trade got the phils's a strong closer or at least a very good set-up man if somehow Meyers moves back by the end of they year. Golson will be a good 4th OF, Burrell, Vic, and Werth will do well. They do need a 6th starting pitcher maybe 7. Eaton is a waste of money and should not be counted on for anything, he is ugly! The guy does not make 1 adjustment the entire season and now may have lengthy shoulder issues. Phil's have Hamels, Meyers, Kendrick and Moyer as a strating 4. Hamels may not make the full season, Meyers may or may not, Kendrick did well and will give you exactly what he gave you last year. Moyer needs more rest and really is not going past the 6th inning. Phils need starting pitching badly. It would not surprise me if they worked a 6 man rotation for a good part of the season. I want to know why they do not give Carasco, Zegovia or Happ the chance to be a part of the rotation and give them 6-7 starts to make it work. This slow minor league process for pitching does not work for everyone, they need to be more flexible and experimental.

Yeah, the Phillies would have clinched the division a week earlier if they moved Aaron Rowand for a #1 or #2. And I'm not being even a little sarcastic.

Do you remember the July 30th game versus the Cubs when Victorino & Bourn both were injured? Who exactly was going to play centerfield? Chris Roberson? Jayson Werth? Greg Dobbs?

The Phillies would have been out of the race by the last week of the season if they didn't have Aaron Rowand. He was the only consistent and healthy player in the Phillies outfield last season.

You need to stop thinking that adding pitching was/is going to make the Phillies better. They don't play at Petco or AT&T Park. If anything, I would be trying to add more offense.

Do what the Rockies have done. Have a organizational philosophy and develop groundball pitchers within the organization.

rumorman, for a guy who believes in Bourn a lot, you should at least know how to spell his name correctly.

Ah Jimmy, nobody's perfect..........

You guys who think trading Rowand during the season would have landed a #1 or #2 starter are nuts!!! Think about this way, if Rowand were playing for the Arizona D-Backs and they said we will give you Aaron Rowand for Cole Hamels or Brett Meyers; never would have happened. If you think it would have, just remember you are writing baseball blogs and not coaching in MLB.

Again, re: Madson - check his career numbers. Besides a few nice months pre-injury, he has gotten dramatically worse each season. I'd say this is a make-or-break year for him. How long a leash does a guy get?

Love Rowand, but best of luck elsewhere.

Hopefully Myers and Howard won't come to camp fat again - both spent some time on the DL last year, didn't they? All that extra weight didn't help.

Oh, Season's Greetings, everybody!

PS: Still waiting for somebody to explain to me how a guy who hits .220 for half the season (including .190 for the month Utley was out) ends up finishing fifth in the MVP vote.

For as good a fielder as Torii Hunter is, the photo accompanying this blog post seems to be of a play he missed. Funny...

I've flip-flopped on Rowand... I was very much a just-pay-the-guy person, but now I see that the Phils will leave little long-term room for other needs (not the least of which will be eventually inking Howard and Hamels long-term) if they tie up too much money on a fellow who sometimes bats 6th in the lineup.

But with that said, I'd hate to see him leave. I sort of expect to see him back with the White Sox or in LA with the Dodgers at this point, which will be sad. He's a heck of a ballplayer. But the asking price might just be too much with the needs the Phils still have and will have in the future.

I think it would be fair for the Phils to offer Rowand about the same that they offered Lowell (4 years, $50 mil), unless the Phils have ideas on spending that money on another position player, either 3b or OF, because at this point, I think Rowand is about equal to Lowell in what he brings to the team, and if they had it to offer Lowell, they have it to give to Rowand. But that is as high as I would go for Rowand. That is slightly higher than what Byrnes was paid in Az, and they are similar players.

More pitching. More pitching. More pitching. More pitching. More pitching. More pitching.
More pitching. More pitching. More pitching. More pitching. More pitching. More pitching.

PLEASE!

Why can't anyone realize that the best option the Phillies have for 3rd base is on the team right now, that being Pat Burrel? How soon we forget that is where he played his entire college career. Wouldn't that also be quite a relief for his ailing feet that have been such a problem for him? I'm willing to bet it could add quite a bit to his offensive stats as well not having to worry about misplaying balls out in left and incurring the constant wrath of the Phillie faithful. Lord knows he couldn't possibly be any worse than the stumblebums we had at the hot corner last year. At least we'd get offensive production out of the position. Sign Rowand and keep him in center and put Werth in left and then we would have one formidable lineup!!

Enough of Burrell and 3B - he is not a third baseman anymore, and I don't think he was much of a defensive third baseman in college - he was all about hitting. The guy isn't agile enough to play 3B - have you seen him move? It will never happen - let it go.

Burrell at 3B, that is not even a good joke! His defense is ugly in the outfield, you can't fix the 3B issue by putting a sub par OF defender at 3B that played "IN COLLEGE". If you have not noticed, not many college players play the same position when they get to MLB, additionally college and MLB have a long way between! The Phil's need Pitching! Werth, Helms, and Dobbs will see more time and will fill any offensive void with Rowands departure. They need 2 rotation guys, Hey Dubee why not give the #5 spot to a minor leaguer who can grow while in the show! Ha ha, Dubee on the blog, funny!

I love Aaron Rowand in a Phils uniform, but the fact is that he had a career year (it's not even close) and a problem with staying healthy (outside of this year). 3 years with an option on a fourth would be nice, but 5 or 6 years at something like $15 mil a year is nuts for a guy with his track record. Save it for Hamels, Howard and Rollins. I would personally try to pry loose Coco Crisp from Boston. Cheap, young, postseason experience, great defense, decent bat and should be available.
Kyle Loshe is a Scott Boras client, which means that he is going to be shopped around as the "best available young starter" on the market (I'd say he's on par with Carlos Silva. Both are going to be way over paid for their mediocrity. I don't want another Eaton-esque contract on the books. And yes, Loshe pitched great for the Phils last year, but look at the guy's career. It's not worth the 3-4 years/$35-$40 mil he's probably going to get. I'd rather see the Phils take a flier on Bartolo Colon (Manuel is familiar with him) Randy Wolf (1 year deals with options) deals or Kuroda (3 years and slide him into the 4th spot). Another name to remember is Scott Mathieson, the Canadian kid who looked fairly promising in 2006. He might still need more seasoning in Triple-A, but I could see him having a Kendrick-like impact in 08.