The Zo Zone

Excellent and yes they need another option for the 5th starter.

So whats the outfield going to look like? Are they now going to go after Aaron Rowand since they won't be getting a "major" starter?

This is great news that they are close on Romero. I agree they need another starter. In addition to the uncertainty around Eaton, Moyer is another year older. Would they take a chance on Randy Wolf?

Yesterday's article...Gillick revealed yesterday that Adam Eaton recently had an MRI on his right shoulder. Gillick said that Eaton, who had shoulder inflammation late last season, requested the MRI to put his mind at ease, and that the Phils were awaiting the results.
"It's not anything urgent," Gillick said.

Today....He recently had a MRI, but the Phillies don't feel surgery will be required.

Yo Pat, a curious mind wants to know:
So the Phillies (who?) have gotton the results of the MRI and whatever is wrong (inflammation) won't require surgery?
Or they don't have the results and this is just a wild ass guess by the same crack medical staff that gave us such accurate reports last season on injuries to Garcia, Myers, Madson and Gordon?
Or we are about to embark on another "Gillick's beleive it or not " medical cover up?

Honest Pat, we can handle the truth.

We're off to a great start in the offseason! I think a change of scenery for Lidge will work. Still want another starter though!

Poor Jimmymack, always the constant skeptic.

That's not skepticism. He speaks the truth.

The trade for Lidge looks great now. But, if Rowand isn't resigned, how will it look with a depleted outfield?

I'm looking forward to seeing Myers back in the rotation... even if he isn't.

WOW. Did not think Romero would be back. Hope it's finalized tomorrow! As for Eaton, do the Phillies gain anything is Eaton isn't healthy? Can they opt out or gain any salary space if he can't pitch? Can they at least admit that he's not worthy of being a starter, no matter his $8m salary??? Even saying his shoulder is worse than it really is could save both parties face when it comes to admitting they both screwed up.

Truth? Give me a break. The guy isn't happy with anything. Everything is a conspiracy or a bad move. You want the truth? The truth is everything is a gamble when you make trades or sign free agents. You just have to hope you win more than you lose and do the best you can with what you have. That's the truth, not some know nothing, know it all questioning everything in the hopes he can say "I told you so."

Truth? Give me a break. The guy isn't happy with anything. Everything is a conspiracy or a bad move. You want the truth? The truth is everything is a gamble when you make trades or sign free agents. You just have to hope you win more than you lose and do the best you can with what you have. That's the truth, not some know nothing, know it all questioning everything in the hopes he can say "I told you so."

Good news! I thinking getting Lidge is a good gamble. He's got good stuff. Now they need another starter and to sign Romero. You could see how excited Romero was pitching in all those clutch games and I think he wants to stay here. Another starter would be an insurance policy in case Eaton isn't ready.

They need a regular third baseman too, but resigning Rowand is the top priority after Romero.

Here I go! Getting my hopes up again!

How many days is it until the Pitchers and catchers get to Clearwater????

I believe it is 99 days until February 15, so there is a ballpark figure for you. It can't come fast enough.

Right on Rodin! 99% of moves are a gamble, and if Lidge pitches injury free and can get 35-40 saves, great! If not, well then add him to the list of busts and move on. Romero would be great if he can reproduce the same results of last year. If the guys we got stay healthy, the sky's the limit!!

Rodin & Clinton,

Jimmymack's point is that Eaton had an MRI done at least 2 days ago. They obviously have the results of the MRI by now. If Eaton was healthy, why wouldn't Gillick say so? By saying "we don't think surgery will be required" he's implying there is something wrong. So why not tell us what is wrong? If they can't definitively state he isn't having surgery, then it is still a possibility.

And questioning the medical staff and management after last offseason is entirely fair. Garcia was used goods from the outset. Gordon was obviously not healthy and they let him pitch anyway. They don't clear Borowski and he pitches a full season and saves 45 games. There is plenty of precedent for being skeptical of what the Phillies tell the public.

grizzle my nizzle, dizzle?????

Common sense dictates that it doesn't matter if Eaton's shoulder is healthy or not, because he is a terrible pitcher in either case. He has been a big loser no matter where he's pitched, and as good a deal as Gillick made getting Lidge that's how bad a deal he made getting Eaton and then signing him, incredibly, to a three year, $24 million contract. Gillick must have been inebriated. Forget Eaton, he stinks. The Phils still need another starter.

I think that they do need another starter, The only thing is will you be able to sign a starter and that starter knows that he may or may not get the job. The phillies have had trouble with signing starters and then putting them in the bullpen. Liber was not happy coming out of the pen. Ryan Franklin did not like coming out of the pen. Eaton was not keen on the ideal at the start of the season. If I remember correctly Myers did not like going to pen at the start. I am afraid that the phillies will sign a starter and one of the six starters will be ticked about coming out of the pen and have a bad year because they are whining about not being a starter. That is why you might have Durbin, Castro or someone else in the minors to be that emergency starter.

I also think that it is imperative that we sign Rowand, since they have three outfielders and two of the three have not played a full season and the other is inconsistent at best.

We're still a legit starter away, folks. And we need Rowand to return. Lidge has been hugely uneven since the Pujols HR. Let's not get carried away. We still need a quality starter and they are hard to find.

We're still a legit starter away, folks. And we need Rowand to return. Lidge has been hugely uneven since the Pujols HR. Let's not get carried away. We still need a quality starter and they are hard to find.

Let's not get carried away here. Just because Gillick made a big trade doesn't mean that it's a good trade. Lidge only saved 19 of 27 chances last year. That's a terrible percentage. Bourn on the other hand is going to be a 50 base stealer. If (When) Rowand walks, that leaves us with only 3 outfielders and no cushion for injury, plus a closer who is a definite downgrade from Meyers. The more of Gillicks moves I see, the more I think that he is going blind in his old age...he's brought us Garcia, Eaton, and now this.....Sigh....

Todd, the following is a thread I started on another board:

How creative can you get to free up money for pitching?

You could ship out Eaton while picking up half of his contract, which gives you $4M extra to spend per year. Your trading partner gets a starter for 2 yrs. at $4M per w/o giving up much. Then, you go out and get a 4 or 5 slot starter for a total of $6M, $2M after Eaton's savings. Maybe, Randy Wolf.

THE DRIFT: The Phillies are continuing to look for starting pitching. WHY?

Hamels, Myers, Kendrick, Moyer & Eaton.

At first I thought it was a misprint or mistake, that they meant RP. However, they said it was to cover if Adam could not go. Insurance money? Adam asked for the MRI, and The Phightins said nothing showed up. 3 mos. B4 pitchers & catchers seems like plenty of time to get fixed, based on their story.

What type of starter do you pursue and at what money to cover if Adam can't go?

Not Silva at $8-10 per. Not Wolf at $6M per. What happens if you have 6 starters again? A starter-long man like Tomko or Sele? What about that JD Durbin?

So, you want someone better than Durbin or Sele, but not as good as Wolfie? Is there a $2M Starter-Long Man?

Or are you looking for a 3, a 4 or a 5 slot starter w/ $4M coming via deduction?

1. Makes sense to get Adam out of town.

2. Makes sense considering 1 team is looking at Tomko as a 5 thru FA money. Yes, someone would take Adam for $4M per. Wolf or Silva as a 3? A 4? A 5?

Why would The Phightins be after another starter and not a 3B? Could they pick up a corner OF and let Rowand walk to free up more money for pitching? For a 3? For another solid guy in the pen? Not much OF talk either. Pitching, pitching, pitching!!!

Robin,Clinton, Not that jmack needs to be defended, he's a big part of this blog. I find his knowledge of the game, usually right on the money. Sounds to me your intimidated by him. Everyone has opinions on any post, thats what its all about to me. Give us a taste of your expertize, then we can compare your thoughts with the rest of us. One more thing, have you ever stated your opinion and not care if you were correct. That is the definition of a sports fan. Saying "I told you so". Its a competition of sports fans KNOWLEDGE...agree or disagree, then tell us your view.

Pat H., Intimidated by someone on a message board? Hardly. Giving an opinion is easy, as long as you're around to say "I was wrong" when you are. I find that most people on message boards (JMack included) who can't wait to give their opinions are loud mouthed whiners and are NEVER around to admit they were wrong but are first in line to say how smart they are. Complaining to complain, about anything and everything. If someone wants to engage me in an intelligent discussion of the team or it's player's, fine, can you honestly say that is what "JMack" is here for? I don't see it. I never claimed to know everything about baseball, IF I did, maybe I would be employed in the profession instead of sitting at my keyboard before heading off to my 9 to 5. It is so easy to second guess every move and if it makes you happy, then go for it. I myself prefer to give someone the benefit of the doubt before I hang them out to dry, or in simpler terms, I prefer to let them at least play in a game for the team before spouting off about how terrible an acquisition they were. Finally, if the definition of being a sports fan is being able to say "I told you so", then count me out, I'm not trying to one up anyone, I'm not that insecure. You asked if I've ever stated my opinion and not cared if I was correct? Ummmm... no!! It's called responsibility and credibility, two things that I do care about. Now that you have my view, are you happy?

Wow, I thought the idea was to talk about the Phillies? Now we're talking about talking about the Phillies. Sounds like a husband wife argument just before counseling.

Lets look at the money:

Guys not on Payroll for next year:

Garcia: 10M
Lieber: 7M
Rowand: 4M

thats 21M

You picked up lidge - thats 6M

available dollars - 15M

Out of that money you should be able to sign both Rowand and Romero.

Now the question becomes: extra starter? or Third base?

Zo, my only concern is that there's now no future at Third base. Whether we liked Costanzo or not, I se no one else in the system for the forseeable future.

Is there any chance that the Minor League system may try to move Adrian Cardenas to the position?

John,
You need to factor in the money that needs to be set aside for arbitration cases, especially Howard, who could be making well over $5M next season. That money is going to take a large bite out of the leftover cash.

Howard will get a raise, but not 15 million. They have money left over like Joe said to shop for that starter. Gillick said the same thing yesterday to the press. John also has a good point that they now have no future at third base. But was Costanza really the answer for the future. Maybe they knew he wasn't the future and know they'll need to go shopping for one anyway. The problem with Rowand is he's looking for something long term, longer than the three year deals that Gillick likes to do. I'm with Gillick on this one, if he can get six years elsewhere, let him go. Do the Phillies really need another Burrell type contract disaster?

Joe, I'm with ya, how did what I post become a flash point?

Rodin, I don't need to defend myself to you but I will amuse you just the same, since you like intelligent discussion.

I gave Gillick/Amaro kudos for the Lidge trade and said it wasn't enough. My opinion about the disingenuous comments Gillick is giving about Eaton are certainly on point. To accept anything he or the medical staff say as gospel has already proven to be a fool's errand. You think that is whining, well that's your opinion, it's a blog everyone has an opinion. I attend 60+ games a year and spring training, so I am a bit more than a casual fan and for the significant money I spend, I want and expect some truth from the management of the team. Do I have strong opinions, you bet I do. You don't agree, that's cool, just keep your personal arguments based on fact next time.

I have more than once this season posted an apology ("I was wrong") for comments about Pat Burrell over the course of his year as he came on strong. I have been an Eaton/Barajas/Helms critic all season so "at least play in a game for the team before spouting off about how terrible an acquisition they were" doesn't apply; I think I was on solid ground there, as were most fans. As far as why I am here..."can you honestly say that is what "JMack" is here for? I don't see it". Perhaps a eye exam is in order, you may have vision problems. Like you, I am here because it's usually a good spot to talk Phillies and I think Todd does a great job as beat writer and I support his blog.
Not sure what you individual problem is with me, since your arguments were not fact based, but hopefully, you can get over it.

Wow, all this Phillies talk in November...it's a wonderful thing! Yes, this deal helps but please don't stop there. Who cares about third base and center field, they've got some decent players there....baseball is all about pitching and everyone knows that is what killed them this year. Let's quit counting on stiffs like Lieber and Eaton...the sooner they leave, the better. And Moyer is old as dirt, (though he'd probably be good for long-relief). Plus, Myers was not real successful as a starter. Of course we need another starter. Now Gillick, go find one, whatever it costs...2008 could be the year!!!

Uh, real quick since the point of this blog isn't name-calling...

Rodin, who are you? Seriously. I only ask because - along with Pat H. and Jimmymack - I like to think of myself as one of the most consistent posters on this site. You wouldn't know, since you only started posting - what, a week ago? It's true, I've taken a little break recently. Still. Do I need to send you a resume? For the record, I played a little catcher at OMGC in Bryn Mawr back in the early 80's, then switched to cross-country in high school... oops, now I've lost ALL credibility with you.

Bottom line: JM has an opinion and states it. Just like you and Clinton NJ and the rest of the posters here. Your negativity and editorializing of other comments, frankly, smack of that other malcontent, Mr. Met. Let's all play nice and continue to thank Todd for the amazing job he does here.

Go Phils!

PS: JM, sorry to hear about that shoulder.

JimmyMack,
You don't have to defend yourself to me, you are entitled to each and every one of your opinions. As far as amusing me goes, please don't flatter yourself. I'll admit to, obviously, not seeing every post you have ever made, but the ones that I have seen have been nothing but negative. Apparently, I was mistaken about you. My apologies.

My question to you though is this, why would Gillick, at the very beginning of FA season, tip his hand to Eaton's status as far as injury goes? If he does that and wants to sign another starter, he loses any position of strength and any leverage he may have. Perhaps you feel that because you are "more than a casual fan" that gives you the right to expect something different than what has been going on in sports since free agency began, i.e., spin control and not letting on too much? If so, you might want to consider spending your hard earned dollars elsewhere. Finally, I think they are honest to a point with the fans and media, but I certainly don't believe everything I see or read.

Once a critic always a critic I say, but for my money I get more enjoyment out of actually supporting the players and the team and not finding fault in every little thing. I'm making an assuumption based on what you wrote but, do you think that by booing Eaton, Helms or Barajas you helped them perform better? If not, isn't that a little self-defeating, since the object is to actually win games? Another assumption judging by what you wrote above, you probably also booed Burrell unmercifully but then were giving him standing O's once he started playing better, right? Again, do you think your booing helped him play better? I don't begrudge anyone doing what they feel is best, so long as it doesn't affect me, in this case I just don't understand it though.

As for Joe, the poster above you, I didn't write that Howard would get 15M, I wrote "$5M". Sorry for the confusion.

John in LA,
Because I've only posted here recently I can't question something that strikes me wrong? Does the fact that I never posted much mean that I didn't read much? I'm about as far from a malcontent or negative as one can be, so in that regard you are dead wrong.
Thanks for the update to your resume, but that's not what I was referring to as far as credibility goes. I was referring to having the ability to have an unbiased opionion, one that's not rooted in some sophomoric dislike for certain players or members of management because you disagree with how they play, coach, smile or chew gum.
I'm all for spirited debate amd certainly welcome honest, intelligent differences of opinion, but boorish behaviour and nitpicking negativity is not something I suffer lightly. So, it's a pleasure to meet you and since you asked, I played baseball all through high school and into college before hurting my shoulder, playing wiffle ball of all things. I was certainly never going to make a living playing baseball, but going that far did give me an appreciation of how hard these guys have to work to get there, so knowing that, I prefer to support them instead of constantly being negative.

Rodin,

Thanks for the bio. I was being facetious, but then I'm sure a really bright guy like you already know what that word means.

This is actually a baseball blog, much as I'd love to make it about you. Have you thought about that? We could do that - you and I start a blog by Rodin, put the "Thinking Man" icon at the top (that was Rodin, right?), have some daily thoughts, browbeat anybody who isn't as pure and fair-minded as you, teach them a thing or two along the way. Let me work on it.

In the meantime, here's a question: Ever meet that guy at the party who doesn't know anybody, immediately injects himself into every conversation, and then wears out his welcome in 15 minutes? I hate him, don't you?

Pace yourself, buddy. You're smarter and a better fan than the rest of us, so just revel in that little secret.

Now I'll let you have the last word, then it's only Phillies talk from here out (otherwise, people might think we're in love).

This is actually supposed to be fun.

If we resign Rowland, I can live with the Dobbs/Helms combination at 3rd base. If we don't resign Rowland, I can live with a Victorino, Burrell, Werth, Dobbs and whoever else outfield but then we need to upgrade at 3rd base. Any pitching help is always welcome.

Sorry John, didn't mean to step on your toes. I should have realized that this blog was about baseball and left it to the tried and true, like you and your pal, what a spoil sport I am. From now on I'll consider myself warned. No more disagreeing with Jimmymack and his mouthpiece/babysitter, John in LA. Thanks for the offer of my own blog, but I certainly don't have enough to say to fill it up. I never claimed to be smarter or a better fan than anyone, although I think you believe you are... Nonetheless, I'll remember to watch my p's and q's. Or maybe I'm being facetious now... or maybe just obsequious? I'll leave that for you to decide. I'll run along now and leave you to your own sense of superiority and witty repartee...

it's plain for me to see... the phils aren't addressing the eaton situation because it's not good news. this sounds very ominous. and shame on the beat writers for not even asking a follow up question and reporting their no commment.

it's plain for me to see... the phils aren't addressing the eaton situation because it's not good news. this sounds very ominous. and shame on the beat writers for not even asking a follow up question and reporting their no commment.

Not that i need to defend myself, but i will anyway. I was only agreeing with mr.rodin that most trades/signings are gambles. I think Jmack is usually on the money with what he writes, as is 80% of everyone else. Although some people I seriously question if they even watched a game the past few years. I love the phils and love sharing opinions with ya'll. Everyone, keep up the good work!!!