The Zo Zone

Good for Gooch, but I’m surprised he didn’t find a better deal. I always had doubts as far as him being a 3rd baseman.

I’m actually ok with the Dobbs /Helms / Brunlett platoon option. There are no clear upgrades left out there. All the remaining candidates have major flaws (health, low OBP, yada yada yada…) so there is no need to go out of their shoes for someone. There might be a few options that shake loose and might be had for cheap as time goes on.

Looks like Mark Prior might go non-tendered. I’d imagine the Phillies along with many other teams would be interested. Could be a good low risk/ high reward signing if he hits the market.

Forget third base...the Phils lost another solid bench player. They are going backward.

If Joe Crede proves himself healthy in spring training, don't forget the Phils favorite trading partners the White Sox. The Sox are looking to move him and he is a FA agent at the end of the season. He has a great glove and a half decent bat. But like most 3rd baseman that pesky back injury issue.

Since SD lost out to Fuke, will Gooch have another former white sox/former phils team mate with him?

Ghost said it: Even if the platoon is good, it weakens their bench. Helms showed me nothing. Dobbs was good, but he was good as a bench player. I'd be tempted to bring Abe back for his defense. That strengthens the bench a little. But if (when) Rowand walks, we have another hole to fill and again we look at weakening our bench by using Werth. I think they need to either upgrade third, sign Rowand, or replace Rowand with an above average outfielder. Otherwise, they're going backwards.

Maybe Eaton can play third. :-)

The bench isn't much worse off, if at all. Helms/Dobbs was the platoon at 3B this year, and Bruntlett replaces Nunez. Werth played the last 1/3 of the season as a starter, which is when the team was peaking - so its again, not a downgrade to the bench if they can get a defensive replacement for Burrell. The sky is not falling because Iguchi wanted to play 2B for the Padres instead of 3b for the Phillies. There has been a lot of talk about the Phillies being worse this year? I don't get it, they upgraded their biggest deficiency, which was pitching, even though they still need some insurance there, but they definitely have not gone backwards.

This lineup needs help. i dont care how many runs they score, they strike out too much and that killed them in the playoffs. Lowell was the answer and a player they haven't had in a long time. hard to strike out, hits for average and would have killed in CBP. Not to mention he can actually field his position. Oh well im sure they'll sign Kevin Mench and Pedro Feliz, a career .250 hitter. Lets sign Prior and Colon to complete the set. Let the scrap-heaping begin!

Looks like we're stuck watching Helms at third, what with the Marlins deal having been reported dead and with players leaving better deals on Gillick's table to play elsewhere. Hopefully '07 was an aberration and he finds the ability to hit his way out of a paper bag in '08. Any of the remaining names being mentioned at 3B all seem like lateral moves.

This is from ESPN Rumor Central...just thought I'd post and see what everyone thinks.

The Phillies, looking for a left-handed bat to share time with Jayson Werth in right field, asked about Houston's Luke Scott, ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick reports. But when the Astros wanted one of Philadelphia's top pitching prospects, Carlos Carrasco or Josh Outman, talks didn't progress very far.

The Phillies want to upgrade at third base or right field, but they're not thrilled about the third-base options. Tadahito Iguchi is reportedly leaning toward Colorado. The Phils don't want to pick up the three years and $19.1 million left on Brandon Inge's contract, and they're under the impression that Pedro Feliz wants something in the three-year, $20 million range as a free agent. That's too steep for them.

So the Phillies will probably focus on right field. They like Geoff Jenkins, but it remains to be seen whether they'll give him the multiyear deal that he wants. Philadelphia doesn't appear to have an interest in Shawn Green, Cliff Floyd, Brad Wilkerson or the other left-handed bats on the free agent market. Bobby Kielty, a switch-hitter, might emerge as a possibility.

This is old bad news. Iguchi said he wanted to play 2nd. The odds of him taking a contract that started in May to play 3rd was low.

I like Iguchi, but it's not like he isn't replaceable. In fact it's better for the bench to have someone who's willing to play more than one position...

First off, the phils main priority should continue to be pitching. They still need to sign at least one starter. If they can get prior to agree to a one year deal, I think it would be worth it to take a flier on him.

As for third base...I don't know what they are going to do. All of the guys being talked about have flaws. Feliz can't hit, Inge strikes out a ton, Crede can't get on base (his OBP numbers are among the worst in baseball) and he has a bad back, Rolen is a crybaby, etc. I think gillick is taking the correct approach...don't overpay for garbage.

I wouldn't mind Kielty as a bat coming off the bench.

The phils offseason hasn't gone as well as they had hoped, but there are positives...Lidge will help, myers in the pen will help, the mets made an awful deal with milledge, and the braves lost A Jones and signed glavine (who is clearly done). The phils may not have improved much, but the other teams in the division haven't either.

I obviously meant to say myers in the rotation will help.

Let's face it. They aren't going to do anything. They'll collect the 3.1 mil in ticket sales and win 86 games and hope it's enough. and we'll go and we'll watch because we are loyal to a fault. And we'll hiss and moan because that's what we do best...Golson could do Bourn's job better than Bourn did. And I don't care how many runs we scored last year we need another bat whether it be an outfielder or a third baseman. How about a third baseman that can hit and field..a novel approach,..huh!? Victorino and Werth haven't played a full year without injury so they probably need both. I'd much rather pick my apples off the tree than gather the ones on the ground..But the Phil's, they are ground gatherers....And I guess they always will be until something major changes. Their offices should be on Passyunk Ave. with the rest of the junk yards. We have Charlie "Fred Sanford" Manuel as our leader so it all fits..But we will watch and we will go because that is what we do. Gotta love us!! Happy Holidays to all !!

I would like to see Feliz here for the right price. If they got him for 2 years $10 mil or 3 years $15 that isn't outrageous. It beats Bartolo please re-attach my arm Colon for $10 mil or whatever he'll get.
Say what you will about his .250 average but not everyone hits .300 and if the guy is only making $5 mil what do you want? He puts the ball in play which would be good for this strikeout prone lineup. Some are saying he strikes out too much but if you did some research you would find that out of the 2007 NL batters who qualified for the batting title he was 16th least in strikeouts with 70. Just behind Victorino and ahead of Rollins, Utley. His power numbers have been steady at 20Hr and 80ish Rbi over the last 4 years, no doubt those would rise in CBP and in this lineup. Defensively he would offer a huge upgrade over Helms/Dobbs. He was one of the candidates for the Gold Glove last year and 3b defense is important with Moyer on the mound. Over a full season I expect his offense to be about the same as Helms/Dobbs but he would improve the club's defense, outfield and bench. Dobbs is better than those FA outfielders we are looking at and you won't ever have to see Helm's play 3b

START SKIP TO MY LOU BEAVER AT THIRD BASE!!!

Anyone see the deal Houston made for Tejada? Unbelievable. You can take Luke Scott out of the discussion.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3151849

ED Wade!! lol. I can see his plan. Trade away all his team's pitching for hitting. Smart man! haha Hey Ed we'll take Oswalt off your hands for you. We'll even give you... (Drum Roll)... Adam Eaton and Wes Helms!!

Wow, Patton was listed as their 3rd best prospect, Scott is a solid player, and Albers has potential too. All for a guy whose skill is declining rapidly and whose name will probably show up on tomorrow's Mitchell report. Thank goodness the Phils finally canned Wade.

Why on earth won't the Phils consider trading for Brandon Inge or even Joe Crede. Wes Helms was pretty terrible this year, and while Dobbs was good, he is better as a role player.

We're going to end up without Rowand and without improving out pitching much (especially given that Lidge is really an unknown). Subtracting elements from a team that barely made the playoffs and couldn't win one game in the playoffs just doesn't seem smart.

Ben - you don't know that the Phils "won't" consider making a trade, they just haven't done anything yet. Am I simply missing the abundance of top quality players available via free agency and trade that other teams are gobbling up so quickly that the Phillies are missing all of the opportunities? This is a weak off season for everybody. Besides Tory Hunter, the biggest deals have been with players staying with their current teams.

I'm with you Tim. I'd rather have Gillick exhaust all options, before trading for Inge or Crede and regretting it. As for Rowand, his demands are fairly ridiculous, and if he gets a 5 year deal at $12 mil per, that team will regret it.

It's still December, over 3 months before pitchers and catchers report. Plenty of time to improve the team.

Pedro Feliz will strike out over 100 times and will hit about .260 with an OBP of around .300, which is low. Fact is, he is a stellar fielder who will hit over 25 homers with our ballpark as his home field He is an upgrade over Helms. DObb can play outfield, first and third. Sign Feliz, and give it a major push to get Rowand back. At the same time, please remember: PITCHING !! PITCHING !! PITCHING !!!

Pedro Feliz is old and has always been terrible. I'm thankful Gillick hasn't done something as dumb as sign Feliz so far this offseason.

Ummmm
They never offered me anything. I called and told them I was going back to the RS and please not to make an offer as i would not consider.
Nice try on the 48M though, It never happened.
You really dont need to have such a persecution complex

Keep Hank Blalock in mind. Texas wants to move him and Gillick loves to trade with Texas too.

I wanted to add I think Gillick is waiting for Rowand to sign before he makes a big move. If Rowand can't get 4 or 5 yrs guaranteed, he might come back to Philly for 3 and an option year.

Well, guess that big move is coming because Rowand just signed with San Fran for 5 friggin' years

ESPN is reporting the Giants have signed Rowand to a five-year deal.

Rowand just signed for five years with the Giants.

While Rowand was a great clubhouse influence and had a great season last year, I'm glad the Phillies weren't the ones giving him a 5yr deal.

The thing that sucks is that the Giant's 1st rd pick is protected so we don't get the compensation we had hoped for.

"Ummmm
They never offered me anything. I called and told them I was going back to the RS and please not to make an offer as i would not consider.
Nice try on the 48M though, It never happened.
You really dont need to have such a persecution complex"

Lowell himself said there was a period of a few hours where he knew for sure he was going to accept the Phillies offer, but had a change of heart and returned to Boston for less.

Rowans to the Giants is a stupid move on his part. They are rebuilding. Plus, in that pitcher's park, he'll never hit as well as he did here. Also, that place is HUGE compared to Citizens Bank Park. He'll wear out after 2-years and will be done.

5 years of security for Rowand is very smart on his part. He got his ring and for the next five years his stats mean poop. The man just got paid and set up his family for the rest of their lives. I can’t fault a man for that… now was the move smart for the Giant is a different story.

Andrew, mlb.com is reporting that Rowand's contract will be very much like Torii Hunter's from the Angels. Hunter got $90M. So Rowand, at 30 years old and possibly striking his one career long-term big money deal, really isn't that stupid. And with the Bonds circus gone from SF, and with their young pitching, it might not be a bad time to start playing out there.

In another story, looks like Wade finally landed Tejada. But for the Astros, of course...

Andrew - read you points again and ask yourself who's stupid: Rowand or SF? Rowand gets paid either way. 5 years was really dumb on its own, but your points add more reasons SF wins the "dumb" title here.

Well good for Rowand, hopefully he doesn't mind losing. Even with him, that is the worst lineup in baseball.

Rowand gets his deal, good for him. Dumb for the Giants, he is not going to produce the same numbers again in his career, especially in that line-up.
It is stressful sitting and waiting for the Phils to do something this offseason, but remember we got Lidge, which is a good deal for the Phils, Romero too. Also, look at the FA's out there, not really many worth it, $ wise. Lohse, no. Silva, no, they will be getting way too much money and will not perform to level that the Phils need. The only FA's worth going after was Lowell, they did that and it did not work out. Fukudome, Huroda, Iguchi, I woner if the Phils really had a shot at these guys.
Yes, they still need pitching!!! Starter and a reliever, they may already have the reliever in Youman???
OF good to go, Burrell, Vic, Werth. Golson will fill in for Bourn and may have better power numbers with the same speed and defense ability. IF great to go, exept 3B, but look at last year, it was not a very big offensive producing position. C, good to go, finally letting Ruiz and Coste get it done! P- Starters, we have a good 1-2-3, we really need to upgrade the 1-2-3 or hopefully we can find a more consistent 4-5. Pen, Closer (Lidge), Set-up (Gordon), Loogy (Romero), 7th (Madson), need one or two more spots filled, could be Matheison, Youman, Bisenius???
Bottom line we are not spending money on bad ideas!!!

KS if your baseball knowledge is as crappy as your math you are in serious trouble....did you really think the Phillies only made 3.1 million off of ticket sales? Try over 50 million. If they were only making 3.1 million they wouldnt even be able to afford to sign Rusty Kuntz to play 3rd base.
I know what they wont be doing in 2008 is signing you on to do there finances.

Get'em DC! I guess the rest of us just stop reading once we saw KS type 3.1 mill in tix sales. Nice play on words there too!

Go Phils ! Let's win our 1st pennant since 1986 !

Josh Towers was non-tenured. The Phillies looked at his last year at the trade deadline. I think the Phills will talk to him soon.

Morgan Ensberg would be a nice addition, and could be the perfect candidate for 3rd, but that depends on if he can produce closer to what he did in 06 then 07. The Phillies did not seem interested in him at the trade deadline last year so maybe not.

I would welcome Prior or Colon on short incentive laced deals.

Someone asked “Do you really think we are going to compete again with this roster?”
Giving what the rest of the NL is doing, absolutely. That said, it’s a long road to Spring Training and opening day. A lot can happen, but good and bad. Ask me again in April and I might have a different answer.

DC and kfil, that wasn't me that typed that. Please make sure you know who you're ripping before you do so.

I agree, they will go after towers. He isn't great, but he would be servicable as a #5/long reliever.

I'm glad gillick isn't paying for these scrubs that are on the market. Pedro Feliz??? Please, the guy can catch the ball, but he is worthless on offense. It would be Wadesque to give him a multi-year deal. Don't forget that Bruntlett can play third as a defensive replacement.

Anyone else think Colon looks like the phanatic?

Maybe Gillick's failure to make one of his "mega deals" (Garcia, Barajas, Eaton) is not such a bad thing. His in-season moves have been much better. We have to keep our eye on the big issue - the free agent crop is rather weak when it comes to the Phillies needs, namely pitching. The bench issue can be handled before or during spring training. The question the fans should be asking is when does the minor league/scouting system get called to task for the lack of position players (especially those with power)? When Ryan Howard was moved up, there went 95% of the power potential in the minors. The AAA team looked like the guys with whom I played at Dream Week. The average age was closer to 30 than to 20.........