Merry Christmas!
I'm taking a quick break from the fesitivites to ask this question: How do the Phillies compare today with the other top teams in the National League East (apologies to the Nationals and Marlins, but I'm not picking either of you to contend next season in the NL East)? ESPN.com has a pretty good Hot Stove League page, which allows fans to see what teams have done this off-season. It seems to be fairly accurate -- update: they still had Johnny Estrada as an addition to the Mets even though he was non-tendered, and never counted Tom Glavine as a loss even though he signed with the Braves -- so let's take a look:
PHILLIES
Added: Brad Lidge, Geoff Jenkins, Chad Durbin, So Taguchi, Eric Bruntlett and Chris Snelling.
Lost: Aaron Rowand, Tadahito Iguchi, Michael Bourn and Geoff Geary.
METS
Added: Ryan Church, Brian Schneider and Brian Stokes.
Lost: Tom Glavine, Paul Lo Duca, Lastings Milledge and Guillermo Mota.
BRAVES
Added: Glavine, Jair Jurrjens, Omar Infante, Will Ohman and Josh Anderson.
Lost: Andruw Jones, Edgar Renteria, Willie Harris, Ron Mahay, Char Paronto, Oscar Villarreal and Jose Ascaino.
As much as Phillies fans have complained about their team not adding pitching, the Mets and Braves haven't exactly been setting the world on fire. I still think the Phillies are going to score a ton of runs, even without Rowand. In fact, here's my prediction: If Jenkins is healthy, he will put up better numbers than Rowand in 2008. But their starting pitching remains a serious question mark, meaning life might not be any easier for the Phillies next season. It might just as up and down an adventure.
I think it could be a two-team race again between the Phillies and Mets.
But, of course, there's still work to be done. The winter isn't over yet.
Enjoy your holidays ...
Comments (134)
Mele Kalikimaka Zo
Posted by Cory | December 25, 2007 6:05 PM
Posted on December 25, 2007 18:05
Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday season, Todd and fellow bloggers.
While Todd's statement that the Mets and Braves haven't gone out of their way to improve is true, the Phillies simply need to focus upon improving themselves in every way they can. Otherwise you find yourself playing down to your competition and maybe being lulled to sleep. The Phils won the division by one game on the last day of the season. I'll bet this year will be close also. Who get's the competitive advantage? The team with the most talent, best coaching, or something else?
Hope everyone has a happy holiday season! Peace.
Posted by jrquixote | December 25, 2007 7:56 PM
Posted on December 25, 2007 19:56
I agree with your assessment Zo, especially in regards to Jenkins, but for once it would be nice if we were head and shoulders above the other teams in our division as well as league wide. This whole we should be good enough to contend for the division crap, just isn't good enough.
Posted by Mike D. | December 25, 2007 8:54 PM
Posted on December 25, 2007 20:54
chase utely,(mvp) must i say more.
Posted by james szucs | December 25, 2007 9:20 PM
Posted on December 25, 2007 21:20
chase utely,(mvp) must i say more.
Posted by james szucs | December 25, 2007 9:20 PM
Posted on December 25, 2007 21:20
i am sorry, chase utley(mvp) neeed i say more.
Posted by james szucs | December 25, 2007 9:28 PM
Posted on December 25, 2007 21:28
The Mets actually let Estrada go recently, so he's not an addition anymore.
Posted by Joe B | December 25, 2007 9:56 PM
Posted on December 25, 2007 21:56
METS SUCK !!!!!!!!
Posted by cem karaman | December 25, 2007 10:27 PM
Posted on December 25, 2007 22:27
I think it's not even going to be close. I say the Phils win the division hands down. I say they win it by about 8 games. They believe they're good now. When Rollins said what he said last year I think most players weren't so sure but now I think they expect to win which is no small thing. They're younger than the Mets and something very ugly happened to the Mets last year. I'm not so sure they bounce back so easily. I think there's some doubt in their minds. More doubt than the Phils experienced last year. Holy molly I sound like DR. Phil.
How about this? Do you guys think Victorino can stay healthy all year and can hit enough to be basically your everyday center fielder? Would you make him trade bait? I love the way the guy plays and I really love his speed but other teams would love the same things about him. Plus he's young. If another centerfielder where available I'd at least listen to offers for him in some kind of package deal (maybe with Kendrick) for a very good reliever or a starter like Bedard of the Orioles. The trouble with Victorino is he doesn't hit for a high enough average and he doesn't have that much pop so can he play every day? He's kinda like a young So Taguchi. Even though I really like the guy's personality and speed and arm I'd deal him and be happy with an older veteran like Loften or even a Scott Podosek platooning in center with Werth or Toguchi. I don't know if one of those guys is available or if other teams value Victorino like we do but another good reliever would be sweet.
Posted by Johnny P | December 25, 2007 11:10 PM
Posted on December 25, 2007 23:10
Love the Jenkins/Rowand prediction. Rowand was a great addition to this team, but for what he was able to get on the open market, it wouldn't have been prudent to resign him. Plus I don't think he'll match this year's numbers again, especially in a bigger park. Jenkins doesn't even have to put up better numbers for it to be the right move. If the platoon of Jenkins and Werth put up better numbers it was a great move. Little concerned about the lack of speed on the bench. Who do we use as a pinch runner in late game situations (can Bruntlett or Taguchi hold a candle to Bourn?)
Posted by Bob | December 25, 2007 11:57 PM
Posted on December 25, 2007 23:57
Running in late innings? What did Bourn ever do? We'd bring him in for Burrell and then he'd stand on first base or get picked off. I think a late inning runner is nice, but they've got to be aggressive like Jimmy Rollins.
Posted by Mike from Bala | December 26, 2007 4:36 AM
Posted on December 26, 2007 04:36
Johnny P.--What was in your holiday eggnog? Victorino is about to have a breakout year with 60 steals or more. That makes almost every walk, single, hbp, a de facto double. And trade him for Lofton, whom the Phillies once had? Try to get your head clear by new Year's.
Posted by Jim Ryan | December 26, 2007 7:46 AM
Posted on December 26, 2007 07:46
You put if healthy Jenkins will produce better numbers than Rowand...it's Rowand that should be "if healthy".
Posted by GM-Carson | December 26, 2007 7:49 AM
Posted on December 26, 2007 07:49
I agree. I love the jenkins/tuguchi signings. Tuguchi can run and beat out late inning singles. I've seen him do it in St. Louis. My only concerns besides pitching is this: which Pat Burrell will show up this year and can Victorino stay healthy. I had a similar injury as him(torn calf muscle) a year ago. I run five times a week and I'd be lying if I said it didn't tweak from time to time. But this is the important part-it tweaks just enough when you run to keep you from going balls out. Nothing's scarier than feeling that loud pop in your leg then falling down in a lump. That being said, I like the Phils chances. And remember, Gillick's best moves are always in-season. Go Phils!!
Posted by rob fida | December 26, 2007 9:30 AM
Posted on December 26, 2007 09:30
Why is it always a comparison thing in this town? If the the Phillies compare favorably to the Mets and Braves, but both teams stink, then what's the point? I would like to see the Phillies be THE TEAM TO BEAT IN THE NL while the opportunity is available to them. Allow me to remind you, they won the division last year. And as NL East Champ, they were immediately exposed and eliminated from the playoffs. The Phillies are 2 impact pitchers and 1 impact hitter away from serious contention FOR A WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. And that should be the objective, not being better than mediocre divisional rivals. Been there, done that.
Posted by Twitchell | December 26, 2007 9:35 AM
Posted on December 26, 2007 09:35
Jenkins/ Werth will produce better than Rowand, they will face favorable match-ups 80-90% of the time. Plus you always have a bench guy that is fresh for pinch hitting. I like Vic a lot, but with the signing of So Taguchi it opens the door to trade Vic. He may have a breakout year, but I do not think so, he still needs to get on base. I hope other teams feel that way also. Packaging him with Kendrick and others for a #1/2 would be great. The Pen is pretty strong, but another late inning reliever would be great. Still ultimately, the Phils really need that Starter to come through, the big question is where is he going to come from? (Trade, 1 of the 5 guys vying for the 5th spot, a minor league player, who knows). Gillick has a done a good job this offseason, he made moves for supporting roles of the solid core we have, when there is really nothing out there. Additionally, he kept all of the draft picks! He made the Phil's the favorite to win the NL East, but like others have pointed out, it would be nice to be favored in the NL for once. Mets will be strong, but will not get it done, I am worried about the Braves, they always have good pitching!
Gillick made the move for a CF to replace Vic, which now leaves the door open for the trade that puts them over the top. If you look at all of the trades; teams want MLB ready, young players, and some prospects. Gillick would not do it if it did not make the team better, now he has pieces that he can move younger guys to pick up that #1/2, just wait!!!
Posted by kfil | December 26, 2007 9:42 AM
Posted on December 26, 2007 09:42
I think to many phans think the Phillies signed Geoff Jenkins from 2003-05. This Jenkins is not the same player. He is useless versus lefties (.215 BA in '07), which hurts your depth and roster flexibility. And versus righties, I think people are allowing the HR totals to fool them. While 18 HRs versus righties in 355 ABs is okay, not great, the rest of his performance is horrible. .262 BA, 50 RBI, .326 OBP and .807 OPS. These numbers are from his strong side! Not to ruffle any feathers, but Jenkins is barely a platoon option based on those numbers. If you consider the financial committment, this signing is ridiculous.
Posted by Twitchell | December 26, 2007 9:46 AM
Posted on December 26, 2007 09:46
Twitchell, the Phillies won the division last year despite an unusually high number of serious injuries. Just by being healthier they should be a 90-plus win team. Additionally, they have made a couple very good off-season acquisitions/moves while the Mets and Braves have done little. And the Phillies aren't comparing favorably to the Mets and Braves because those teams "stink." Nobody would say the Mets and the Braves "stink." They both will probably be good ball clubs, but not as good as the Phillies in my opinion. Nothing was "exposed" about the Phillies in the playoffs. They lost because 3 of their best hitters, (Utley, Howard and Rowand) slumped horribly through the 3 games. Those guys are a strength for this team, not a weakness. But the losses in games 1 and 3 were squarely on the offense and those 3 guys (4-2 and 2-1 losses are not the fault of the pitching staff). Only in game 2 did the pitching struggle and that was mainly the result of one two-out, two-strike mistake from Lohse to K-Mat. If the Rockies had not been red hot when we faced them, and had our offense been clicking as usual, truth is the Phillies were probably the better team.
Posted by Realistic Observer | December 26, 2007 9:54 AM
Posted on December 26, 2007 09:54
Uh, last time I checked this is the same Geoff Jenkins as from 2003-2005. Just because his numbers dipped some last year doesn't mean he suddenly has no value or that he might not post better numbers this year, particularly in a hitter-friendly park. And if he hits about .270 with 18-20 homers and 50-60 RBIs in a platoon with Werth, his signing will be a success and it will essentially have more than replaced Rowand's production (since you have to assume Werth will add 5-10 HR's and 30-40 RBI's to that, while batting about the same or better average-wise in the platoon).
Posted by Realistic Observer | December 26, 2007 10:04 AM
Posted on December 26, 2007 10:04
He is useless versus lefties (.215 BA in '07), which hurts your depth and roster flexibilit... Not to ruffle any feathers, but Jenkins is barely a platoon option based on those numbers.
Seeing as how the Phillies signed Jenkins to be... wait for it... part of a platoon - what's your point?
If you consider the financial committment, this signing is ridiculous.
Yes, the Phillies will be sunk by that ridiculous two-year financial commitment. Idiot.
Posted by Anonymous | December 26, 2007 10:46 AM
Posted on December 26, 2007 10:46
I think the Phils best chance to bolster their pitching staff will come in season. Hopefully, some of their minor league guys make the leap and can a) either contribute ala Kendrick, or b) become more valubale as trading chips.
Right now, they cannot realistically obtain a top tier starter without affecting the core of their roster. However, if Carrasco or Savery makes huge strides in the minors this year, they may have the chips to make a run at a top pitcher on a losing team by the deadline. Right now, I'd like to see them add another reliever or two (Affeldt, Otsuka), and maybe a low end starter for depth, like Towers.
Posted by RG | December 26, 2007 10:59 AM
Posted on December 26, 2007 10:59
THe reality is that the 1983 and 1980 Phillies only had 2 real staring pitchers all year and had to depend on call-ups to plug holes of injuries and staff ineptness.
As long as Myers and Hamels stay health we are fine. There is a pool of 4 starters who might be call-ups this year. and then there is always the July trading deadline. This year it was Loshe...
And to those who feel Jenkins will not fill Aaron Rowand numbers remember he did not exactly set the AL/NL on fire in 2005 and 2006 and he is moving to a pitchers park.
Posted by Jose Kuhn | December 26, 2007 11:04 AM
Posted on December 26, 2007 11:04
The phillies should just trade burrell and eaton for pujols and move pujols to left. then trade kendrick and a couple of prospects for santana. then they'll be the team to beat in the NL.
Posted by joe schmoe | December 26, 2007 11:20 AM
Posted on December 26, 2007 11:20
The phillies should trade eaton for a pitching machine and some bushels of baseballs and trade greg dobbs straight up for johan santana and devin hester.
Posted by ron ronn ron ronn ron ronn | December 26, 2007 12:00 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 12:00
Ahhh the Philly faithful lol Many good points as usual, and a few not so good posts. I think Jose Kuhn is right on with his assumption. And dont forget, if the Phils actually can post a winning April for a change, that will be a huge boost for this team. I cant recall a good start to the season, and the last 4-5 years they are right there at the end despite a piss poor start. With the team they have right now, it will come down to health, and starting good. If they accomplish those two, they will be very good!!
Posted by clinton, nj | December 26, 2007 1:26 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 13:26
As a fan, I hope the Phillies can continue their fiscal responsibility and adhere to their self-imposed budget.
Nothing upsets a true Phillies fan more than excessive spending on free agents.
I don't know how Yankee and Red Sox fans can stand it??
Go Phillies! Don't let us down.
Posted by Lar | December 26, 2007 2:06 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 14:06
"My only concerns besides pitching is this: which Pat Burrell will show up this year" - GM Carson...
The Pat Burrell who is in contract year, that's who!! He duplicates his rookie year or better this year. Throw out the last 4 years and reflect on the first one. Who doesn't perform well in the last year of a contract?... He will be one of the main reason why the Phillies win the division with a 5-10 game gap and win thier first playoff series since '93. Then of course he will revert to his old self on another team that makes the mistake of signing him to a lucrative 6yr deal!
I think the Phillies do well this year. I was a little skeptical before I read your report Todd. Pitching is a major issue in the entire National League East (the Braves may have the upper hand over all of the teams, but they don't have any offense other than McCann, Jones, and Texera and have ZERO spead).
This is how the division will shake down:
Phillies
Braves
Mets
My Jobs softball team
Nationals
Marlins
Posted by BB | December 26, 2007 3:22 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 15:22
Pat Burrell has only had one truly bad season in his entire career: 2003. He has hit very well for each and every one of the last three seasons. He doesn't need a "contract year" performance to be good. A normal Pat Burrell season is an excellent season. The fact that Phillies fans can't see this just means that they're blind.
Posted by Anonymous | December 26, 2007 3:36 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 15:36
The Phils are very weak at third base. Nunez is gone and that leaves Helms and Dobbs who are good to give the opposition an extra out or two in the field every other game or so. Dobbs broke in originally in the minors as a first baseman and Helms failed with the Braves and Brewers as an everyday third baseman. Bruntlett has rarely ever played third base in his utility role with the Astros so he will be of no help. While the Mets and Braves have All-Stars at the hot corner waving stop signs, the Phils have the choice of either of two street lights stuck on green standing there.
Posted by Steve D | December 26, 2007 4:09 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 16:09
The key to the starting pitching in my opinion is Kendrick. If last year wasn't a fluke, then we have Hamels and Myers as one of the better 1/2 combinations in the NL and two predictable, fairly solid pitchers in the 3 and 4 spots (Kendrick, Moyer). That fifth spot can be filled a variety of ways, perhaps with Outman or Carrasco coming up later in the year. I really expect 2 pitchers to be up by 2009: one to replace Moyer and one to fill that fifth spot. Pitching is hard to predict ... I keep thinking Gavin Floyd. We won't know what we have until they're up. But, by the same token, a young pitcher may show up big enough in spring training to take that fifth spot and do a respectable job. Assuming they can get 2 good ones by 2009 our rotation suddenly looks a whole lot better without spending huge money on some aging dead arm.
The big caveat here is that Hamels, Myers, and at least one of Kendrick and Moyer stay healthy through the 2008 season.
Steve D - I'm with you on Nunez. If we're keeping third as is and not upgrading, I'd be tempted to bring him back for his defense.
Posted by s | December 26, 2007 4:57 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 16:57
The Padres signed Prior to a one year deal. I might have taken a shot at him for one year even with his injury history.
Posted by s | December 26, 2007 5:09 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 17:09
Prior for one year, 1mil... I think San Diego was his only choice.
Posted by johnnysanz | December 26, 2007 6:29 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 18:29
I agree with Mike from Bala about Victorino and BB about Burrell. Go Phils in '08.
Posted by Vetro | December 26, 2007 8:00 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 20:00
Hey Diesel, what the hell has NY done lately??? Gimme some of what your smoking! The Yanks have done nothing with choke-rod on the team, and guess what, your stuck with his selfish ass. The Giants are a joke. They are the worst 10-5 team ever. Eli is never winning anything, sorry, but im sure you know that already. Maybe the giants will get a home playoff game this year and get SHUTOUT AGAIN like they did in 2005 against Carolina!!!! lol what a joke!! And who cares about hockey right now!
Posted by clinton, nj | December 26, 2007 9:27 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 21:27
We wish we could win a pennant
We Wish we could win a pennant
We Wish we could win a pennant
But we can't cause we're cheap
Posted by RamirS | December 26, 2007 9:40 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 21:40
2008 Frugality Awards
...and the award goes to....the Philadelphia Phillies for signing players that cost very little money. Sorry you finished in 3rd place, maybe next year when.....you cut the budget again.
Posted by Budget1 | December 26, 2007 9:45 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 21:45
There are only three things for certain:
Death, taxes, and the Phillies being cheap.
Posted by Aristotle | December 26, 2007 9:48 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 21:48
Phillies saving money
One Championship in 130 years
Destiny unknown
original Hai Ku
by
Progressive1
Posted by progressive1 | December 26, 2007 9:53 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 21:53
Phills enter 2008 with 3 potential problems. Neither Helms or Dobbs are decent enough in the field. This will cost the Phills afew games. The rotation after Hammells and Bret is a question. Kendrick was a god-send last year but will he continue this? Moyer will be 45 Y.O. next year, but he pitched 2 strong games at the end of last yearat a crucial time. The 5th spot is up in the air. If anyone fulters the Phills have some potential answers i.e. Eaton, Chad Durbin Carasco, Outman Madson Mathieson and Happ. I love the Lidge deal particularly if they can resign him. Of all the potential starters listed I like Madsons potential the most to be a quality starter. I know he did not fare well i previous chances but Ryan was a very good starter in the minors and has the arm to be a winning starter. They would have to get abullpen replacement (Dotel).The 3rd problem our lineup is too lefthanded and every team willbring in leftties to face us, this will cutback the production of Utley and Howard.
Posted by Don Whitman | December 26, 2007 11:27 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 23:27
Phills have 3 questionmarks. 3B defesively Helms and Dobbs will cost them.The starters after Cole and Brett. Kendrick was a godsend last yr. but will he continue. Moyer will be 45 next yr. but he did pitch 2 strong games at crucial timea at the end o 07 the 5th spot i up for grabs but we have some potential answers i.e. a new Eaton, C. Durbin Carasco, Outman, Madson, Mathieson and Happ. Of these I like Ryans potential the most. He was avery good starter in the minors and ha the arm to be a succesful starter. We wold need to replace hi in the pen (Dotel). Lastly our lineup is too lefthanded and Utley and Howard will be facing lefties and this will reduce their production to a degree.
Posted by Don Whitman | December 26, 2007 11:47 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 23:47
Twitchell _ In what baseball world do a .262 BA, 50 RBI, .326 OBP and .807 OPS in 355 at bats qualify as "horrible?" In a down year, Jenkins was more than adequate against lefties. I think the Werth/Jenkins platoon will be a strength.
Steve D _ Wes Helms is a better defensive 3rd baseman than Chipper Jones. And Greg Dobbs plays defense about as well as Chipper (which is to say not very well). There are some legitimate reasons to worry about the Braves this year. Chipper "waving stop signs" ain't one of them.
RamirS & others _ The most tired rite of the hot stove season is the bellyaching about the Phillies being cheap. The two teams that played in the NLCS last year each spent more than $35 million less on payroll than the Phillies. The Phils offered more money this off season to Mike Lowell than the Red Sox did & more money to Randy Wolf than the Padres did. Spending on big league players is not the problem.
Finally, my prediction for '08 _ Barring injuries, the much-vilified, little-loved Adam Eaton will be a more effective starter than Kyle Kendrick.
Posted by GoPhils | December 27, 2007 8:35 AM
Posted on December 27, 2007 08:35
Good tidings we bring, to you and your kin.
We Wish we could win a pennant
But we can't cause we're cheap!
Posted by RamirS | December 27, 2007 9:12 AM
Posted on December 27, 2007 09:12
can at least one of the whiners on the board answer this question for me? Who outside the Red Sox doesn't have at least 3 questions/3 things that need to break right for them to win and be competitive?
Every team has questions..which brings me to point 2.
STop complaining about the phils being cheap or whatever, unless you have a legit choice of a guy they should have come after. And remember neither Elsbury plus prospects or Elsbury plus prospects was good enough for the Sox to add Santana.
In my opinion on paper the phillies had the 2nd best offseason of any team planning on completing for a playoff spot. (Arizona having the best)
Posted by bryan | December 27, 2007 9:51 AM
Posted on December 27, 2007 09:51
Here's the thing on Prior: He never would have come here. He signed for one year in a very pitcher-friendly park, in hopes of putting up some numbers that will make him more attractive stats-wise for his next contract.
Remember Burrell in 2006? Everyone said how horrible he was, how much of an albatross he was. He still put up 95 RBI. In a bad year. I hope his 2008 is that bad.
Rowand is amazing, but he won't be for long.
Victorino has to stay in center. Taguchi is a nice insurance policy, not the key to trading Vic.
The Mets and Braves have HoF-caliber third sackers. The Phils don't. But there are three other infield positions, and the Phils have potential HoF-ers at all three of them. Who else does?
The rotation is better with the addition of Myers. The pen is better with the subtraction of AlfonMesa and the return of Romero and Mad Dog Madson (has everyone forgotten about him?). The addition of Lidge ensures a legitimate closer fills that role.
This is a pretty good ball club, and the reason it is this good is because Pat Gillick doesn't listen to guys like us. Ed Wade? Well, he did.
Posted by Scorekeeper | December 27, 2007 9:55 AM
Posted on December 27, 2007 09:55
Lar posted:
"The Pat Burrell who is in contract year, that's who!! He duplicates his rookie year or better this year. Throw out the last 4 years and reflect on the first one. Who doesn't perform well in the last year of a contract?"
Answer: Andruw Jones last year. Yes, he hit 26 homers and 94 RBI's, but look at the .222 batting average... It's not a given that Burrell will produce just cause it's a contract year. But I'm pulling for him.
Posted by Mighty 55 | December 27, 2007 11:01 AM
Posted on December 27, 2007 11:01
Ed Waaaaaaaaaaddddddddeeeee! Are you madddddd!
Ed Wade was fired after Phillies attendance dropped by 600,000 during the 2005 season. It seems more like we got tired of him NOT listening. Don't you recall him droning, "We're a championship caliber team if we play up to our capabilities". Aye, aye, aye. Such short memories.
NL Eastern Division will be close at the top...again. We need some additional talent to push us over the top. 3rd baseman, starter, reliever???? We're a little thin and if we get injuries, we're too thin on the bench.
Go, Phils!!!! Go get us three more players.
Posted by TonyO | December 27, 2007 11:09 AM
Posted on December 27, 2007 11:09
We Won't go until we get some
We Won't go until we get some
We Won't go until we get some
But we can't cause we're cheap!
Posted by RamirS | December 27, 2007 11:13 AM
Posted on December 27, 2007 11:13
Ditto to those of you pointing out that the Phils ain't cheap. Its getting really old reading how cheap the Phils are when they aren't. Also, ditto to scorekeeper, this is a good ball club and its good because Pat doesn't listen to guys like us. He also has a great track record. Ed might have listened to guys like us and look where it got him.
Posted by ditto | December 27, 2007 11:51 AM
Posted on December 27, 2007 11:51
Ditto to those of you pointing out that the Phils ain't cheap. Its getting really old reading how cheap the Phils are when they aren't. Also, ditto to scorekeeper, this is a good ball club and its good because Pat doesn't listen to guys like us. He also has a great track record. Ed might have listened to guys like us and look where it got him.
Posted by ditto | December 27, 2007 11:52 AM
Posted on December 27, 2007 11:52
Ditto to those of you pointing out that the Phils ain't cheap. Its getting really old reading how cheap the Phils are when they aren't. Also, ditto to scorekeeper, this is a good ball club and its good because Pat doesn't listen to guys like us. He also has a great track record. Ed might have listened to guys like us and look where it got him.
Posted by ditto | December 27, 2007 11:52 AM
Posted on December 27, 2007 11:52
I think we can win the division, especially if the Mets don't add a #1 starter. However, they really should add a third baseman, starter and late innings reliever.
At this point, the Phillies need to make a trade for a third baseman who can give them excellent offensive and defensive production - Atkins would be my top choice, but Beltre would also work. There are no minor leaguers who project as an outstanding third baseman, and there are no good free agent 3B's coming out next year, so this is a need that we need to fill via trade. Dobbs' and Helms' lack of defensive ability will cost us some games.
I can understand why they didn't rush out to sign one of the free agent starters, but there were some good free agent closers and/or setup guys that we should have signed (Cordero, Riske, etc). I'd like to see Dotel.
Posted by Jon | December 27, 2007 12:38 PM
Posted on December 27, 2007 12:38
Mighty 55, I thought about Andrew Jones right after I hit "post". I'm pulling for Pat as well.
To everyone talking about trades, trade who for what?!?!? We have no one to trade wich means we can't pick up anyone in a trade. We make it sound so easy to wheel and deal. I'm sure Pat and the other big wigs are doing everything in thier power to make the team better. I don't know who said it but every team has question marks, yes even Boston. Some more than others. We aught to be greatful we don't fall in the categorie of "needy ballclub" anymore. We have a real good team and should contend for years to come. It's not thier fault that players don't sign here. And guess what, I think the major reason position players don't sign her is because of us, the "get on you" fans. Every player that plays here has unbelievably thick skin. We don't have "Nice" guys here because the fans in Philly will eat them alive. And the nice guys we do have here don't play a major role on any of our sports teams, they are role players. I remember when a pitcher by the name of David Weathers (I think, help me out with the name if I am not correct). He had a horid game and the fans got on him like I've never seen before. I saw tears come out of his eyes and I know it was not sweat! He then went on to be a pretty good reliever on SOME OTHER CITY'S TEAM! Nice guys finish last in Philly but finish in first place in other sports towns. Lets support our boys this year and not tear them down!
Posted by BB | December 27, 2007 2:43 PM
Posted on December 27, 2007 14:43
BB is smokin' weed.
Posted by Tigger | December 27, 2007 2:59 PM
Posted on December 27, 2007 14:59
Hell must have frozen over because there's actual talk about Phillies Baseball in the dead of Winter.I'm sorry,the Eagles season is over.I wish I could have heard Phillies chants at the Eagles games,as payback for all those Eagles chants at the Citizens Bank Park.
Posted by Optimistic | December 27, 2007 3:02 PM
Posted on December 27, 2007 15:02
Tigger: Case in point!...
Posted by BB | December 27, 2007 5:18 PM
Posted on December 27, 2007 17:18
I agree with BB.
However, if he would waive his no trade I think we could get rolen for maybe helms and a low level prospect...and that would because it would essentially free up about $10 mill a year for st. louis. (we might be able to get beltre for that as well, but is he better than helms? or that much better?)
i would like freddie sanchez or ty wigginton as well and that shouldn't take too much especially ty
Posted by bryan | December 27, 2007 6:25 PM
Posted on December 27, 2007 18:25
Maybe if the Phillies dedicated their off season to building a team that would have to slump badly instead of exceeding expectations to win a playoff game, they would win a championship more then once a century.
Posted by Rod | December 27, 2007 7:44 PM
Posted on December 27, 2007 19:44
Someone misunderstood me because I didn't write very clearly. I wouldn't trade Victorino for Lofton. I'd try to pick up someone like Lofton or Podosek or another older center fielder and deal Victorino (or a combo of him & Kendrick) for a solid #3 starter or a tough left handed reliever. Victorino is a young So Taguchi. That deal would never happen for the reasons I mentioned. Victorino is a nice platoon player and Kendrick is a kid who could struggle this year. No one would deal a good starter or reliever for those guys.
If Kendrick and Eaton struggle and Moyer is too old to be affective than the Phils will be in a heap of trouble. That's why I'm fantasizing about some team being dopey enough to take Kendrick & Victorino for a quality #3 starter. If Kendrick and anyone else in the 4th & 5th spots can be affective than the Phils can't be beat in the east.
Look out for those Diamonbacks. They've got 2 very fine starters at the top of their rotation and those suckers can hit. They signed a real nice starter but I can't remember who.
Posted by Johnny P | December 27, 2007 10:18 PM
Posted on December 27, 2007 22:18
The Phillies as of right now are hands down the favorite to win the east. I just read through all of the posts. So im going to respond to a few of the things listed in order here.
1) Arizona absolutely got better this offseason, however, anyone claiming that they can hit too, is very mistaken. Based on their run differntial they should have won 20 or so LESS games then they did. Even with better pitching, im not sure they are better then their record last year. Everything had to go right for them to have that record.
2) The Phillies starting pitching should be better then it was last year. Hamels and Myers are two number 1 caliber starters at the top of the rotation. Moyer and Kendrick should keep them in games ( which is really all they need their starters to do ) and I think Eaton should rebound from last season. The guy is not as has never been a 6.36 ERA guy. Even this past season, he would pitch well for most of the game, and then get blasted in one inning. I think he improves to a 4.50 to 4.75 ERA guy which would be fine
3) Everyone is always so down on Pat Burrell. Not only is this a contract year for him, but I think with a good season the Phillies will resign him. During the 2nd half of last season he was fantastic, and he stopped getting off balance when swinging. Over the past 3 seasons he has averaged .265, 30 HRs, 103 RBIs, 78 Runs, .394 OBP and a .503 Slugging. Where are we replacing those numbers? Tell me one person in ANY other city who has numbers like that, and everyone in the city wants him traded.
4)The guy who thinks Victorino is a platoon player. Are you joking? Last season he hit .281/.347/.423 and stole 37 bases. He is also developing power, and defensively is fantastic. With a very strong arm as well. How is this guy a platoon player? Aaron Rowand ran into walls, but he is still a guy with limited range, and a weak arm. He also had a career year last year, and swings and misses entirely too much. Also if there is one spot in your outfield where you can have a player without a ton of power, it is center field.
5) The Phillies had the 13th highest payroll in baseball last season, and I believe they are going to be around 15th this season if it started right now. Yes they need to spend more money. However, I agree with them not paying the people on the market this season. Rowand was way too much money and way too long of a contract. Did anyone want the Phillies paying Carlos Silva 4yrs/48 million? They made a play at Lowell, who was the one free agent that would have made a huge difference for them. I for one, dont want them spending money just for the sake of spending it.
Posted by Robert Parsons | December 28, 2007 2:42 AM
Posted on December 28, 2007 02:42
Don't you have to be 14 or have an IQ above 70 to post on this blog? I must be thinking of somewhere else.
Sorry this is the MR children's blog. I was looking to talk baseball.
Posted by BenazirB | December 28, 2007 7:21 AM
Posted on December 28, 2007 07:21
I saw David Weathers crying on the mound once because the Phillies fans were mean to him.
Posted by KennyG | December 28, 2007 7:23 AM
Posted on December 28, 2007 07:23
I think the Phillies can trade Wes Helms and Clay Condrey for Scott Rolen.
Posted by BuddyL | December 28, 2007 7:25 AM
Posted on December 28, 2007 07:25
The Phillies could sign Kenny Lofton and Scott Posednik and then trade Victorino for a good pitcher. Then we would win the pennant.
Posted by PJohns | December 28, 2007 7:28 AM
Posted on December 28, 2007 07:28
I hope that Carrasco, Savery, and Outman all are ready to pitch and contribute by midseason. We could put one or two of them into the rotation and trade the other for more hitting help.
Posted by RRM | December 28, 2007 7:35 AM
Posted on December 28, 2007 07:35
I saw Kenny Lofton, Scott Posednik, Scott Rolen, Wes Helms, David Weathers and a Phillies prospect crying because the Phillies fans were mean to them.
Then I had to smoke some weed to get over my feelings. I recorded my feelings on a Phillies blog.
Posted by BB | December 28, 2007 7:41 AM
Posted on December 28, 2007 07:41