The Zo Zone

It just makes you sick doesn't it? I hate that they aren't willing to do what it takes to succeed...At any level and in any walk of life. I'll puke if I hear "we can't afford it" one more time. They should all be lined up and shot. 46 yrs for me and 1 championship. They have a better nucleus now more than ever and they just aren't willing to do what it takes. How can you sit there or home or wherever they watch from and see games being blown and pitchers going down and not want to fix it? Does money make you dumb? These owners are successful people EXCEPT when it comes to their ball club. Doesn't that bother them? It would bother me....And obviously it does...

Trade talk regarding Helms ?
Move him to the Fish for two fungo bats, a box of jocks and a rosin bag to be named later

Reports say the Phils are not interested in Detroit's 3rd baseman Brandon Inge who is owed $19.1 million over the next three years. Why not? $6.4 million a year doesn't sound so bad.

Can someone explain the logic behind the May 15th rule? Iguchi was released at the end of the season, which I think his contract required, and now he cannot resign until May 15th. He can sign a minor league contract, which then can be sold to the Phillies on May 15th. Is that right? What are these rules in place for? What interest is being protected here? There is a veteran player who finished the season with a particular team last year who wants to sign a contract with that same team for this year, but he can't until May 15th? Someone educate me please...

Welcome to the reality of being owned by Giles and Company. Until these tightwads sell the team to an owner who is willing to do what it takes to win a Championship, we will be sitting there staring at an 80 or so win team. It makes me sick to think that Howard, Utley and Rollins are going to spend their prime years playing for an ownership that has no intent at winning a World Series. It doesn't help that our farm system was butchered by good ol' Ed Wade!

I disagree with the criticism here. This is not about being cheap, its about being smart. There isn't anything on the market that is worth the price that is being asked. Why should they throw money at garbage? Then the fans will complain about wasting money on guys who can't play. Give me one guy out there who you think they should overspend for?

Pedro Feliz for third base. The guy can field and has pop in his bat, albiet he has a low on base percentage. He is their best shot at third. Remember---PEDRO FELIZ. Why has his name not come up before?

I agree with Tim. If blindly throwing money out there worked, the Yankees would win the World Series every year and the Marlins would never win a game, let alone 2 WS in the past decade. While it's frusterating, that have to be smart about it. And remember, we were the high bidder for Lowell and that didn't exactly work out.

I agree with Tim aand Matt. The Phils threw big money at Garcia, Eaton and Lieber last season and we saw the result. Just throwing money and/or long-term contracts at players doesn't solve every issue. Michael - toss in a ham on rye and I bet they make the deal..

Don't expect any good news till the entire front office Is fired. Gillick Is an old Ed Wade. The morons Amaro & Arbuckle, nothing
but, excuses.

Thank you Tim, Matt, and JH. Its frustrating that they can't get anything done, but its hardly because they are cheap. The best available are via trade (Santana, Bedard, Haren, etc), and the Phillies don't have the prospects a) because Howard, Utley, Rollins, Hamels, Myers are up playing with the big club and b) they had the least amount of draft picks in MLB from 2000-2005 because they signed free agents. The top free agent pitchers out there are Carlos Silva and Kyle Lohse, and I am willing to bet the teams that give them a 4/5 yr deal at $10 mil per will regret it by year 2.

Look at the Mets, they added Glavine, then Beltran, then Pedro, Delgado, and LoDuca waht did they win? Same with the Cubs. Three of the final four teams last year had smaller payrolls than the Phillies because they drafted well and kept their prospects.

Either stop complaining and jump off the bandwagon or post a reasonable suggestion on how they should improve the team.

And the Phillies already made a good trade this offseason, its just been so long that nobody remembers. Plus they made the best offer to Lowell, so you can't blame them for that, and beyond that there isn't anything complain about as far as their desire to get something done.

I have been reading and listening to about as much Phil's news that I possibly can. Initially I am not a big fan of trading away prospects that may help your team win later. I would almost rather them wait to see if they are good and use them or trade them for bigger names and more help. I also have a lot of trouble signing a Free Agent that we will over pay for and cost us more draft picks. It just isn't smart to Pay for a Cadillac and only get a Ford, as Arbuckle put it. I personally believe that Gillick is trying, just think about the Garcia trade last year, it was a good trade, if he did not get hurt and was the 15-18 game winner of the previous year, we all would have praised Gillick. You cannot control who gets hurt. With all that said the Phil's do need to make a move for a 1-2 starting pitcher to get over the hump or esle we will be fighting very hard to make the playoffs against the Mets, who still have a good offense, the Braves who have more consistent pitching, the Nats who are young, but that also means dangerous. You do not want to give a bunch of younger players something to play for in the last few series of the season against the Phil's. If they make a trade they will not lose draft picks and gain a 1-2, they put themselves in the playoffs! I like Vic and Kendrick, but if they are gone (along with any 2 or 3 prospects) and we have Bedard, Hamels, Meyers, Moyer, (Benson, Eaton or Colon) and maybe 1 or 2 others competng for the 4-5 in the rotation I am very happy. Sign Rowand to solidify the OF and we are very good.

How come the rule was changed that will allow Clemmons to start at the beginning of the season instead of May is different from the one that is stopping us from signing Iguchi? Anyone familiar with this?

Robin - it all depends on how the previous contract was terminated. In Iguchi's case, they didn't offer him arbitration or let him reach free agency, they gave him his outright release at the end of the season, and there is something in the rules about releasing a player and the ability to resign. As opposed to if they had just kept him on the roster until he Free Agency started and he became a Free Agent, like most other players.

I'm glad to see so much common sense emerging here today. Why throw money at players who won't help the team and whose salaries will handcuff the Phils for years to come. Most teams, including the Mets (who have lost Glavine), came away from Nashville empty-handed. Meanwhile, Hunter has signed, Jones has signed (for 2 years) and Rowand has not signed. Obviously the Phills aren't the only team unwilling to give him five years. They landed Lidge and resigned Romero. Not a bad start. Let's see if they can make a deal before Spring Training without giving away their already weak farm system (does Dubee have any more sons to swap?)

Pedro Feliz is a horrible option for 3rd base. He plays good defense but he has low OBP, sub par SLG, and thus a poor OPS. He is only a .252 career hitter. His last three seasons have been: .252 avg and .708 OPS, .240 avg and .709 OPS, and finally .250 avg and .722 OPS.

Those OPS's are all at least 15% below league average. He would be reviled in Philly as soon as people realize he is Wes Helms with a glove.

I think the ball club and the fans would be happy with a Wes Helms that could field(Nunez/Feliz). They should have enough offense to bat the 3rd baseman 7th or 8th and let everyone esle carry the team. Most teams have atleast one offensive weakness, so 3rd would be ours(not typical, but oh well). I rather a guy that can really pick it at 3rd, than helms/dobbs/brunlett/your name here.

Sometimes no news is good news. It paid off in Ed Wades case. Everyone was always upset he didn't pull any deals off. Thats why we have the best young talent in the league now. He wouldn't give up our prospects..

Wow! Expect nothing more in the pitching inventory department the rest of the winter except a look at Benson and his surgically repaired right arm. The highlights of the Hot Stove League acquisitions are couple of injury riddled Rule 5 pitchers that nobody else wanted. Any word from the Front Office on guys pitching in Winter Ball like Fabio Castro, Garcia Anderson, Francisco Rosario, Carlos Monasterios, Moises Melendez etc? Understand several of them are pitching well. Will any of them qualify for inventory in spring training?

I'm not sold on Inge as an answer to 3B. I'm not sold on Iguchi either but I think that's a shot worth taking. Worst case they can either bring Nunez back for defense when guys like Moyer start, or they could use Iguchi off the bench if he fails miserably at 3B. I'd move Helms if Florida is interested, but for what? You look at the Willis/Cabrera trade and think that's exactly what the Phillies needed: a good young pitcher and a stud third baseman. But we didn't have the pieces the Tigers needed. Our farm system is still too weak for us to be involved in trades like that. And we'd blow the old budget anyway.

At this point I think they should make a real effort to re-sign Rowand if possible. They'll probably overpay but that would at least get them into 2008 no worse than they were in 2007.

I would have liked to see them come out with something from Nashville but I have to agree that the pitching available was overpriced and undertalented. MLB.com is saying the Phils are out of the Kuroda race. That's looked like a good option to me but it seemed pretty obvious he wanted to be with a west coast team. They're probably just admitting the obvious.

Also, this is going to get some laughs but, if Garcia's problem really was physical, and he's supposedly recovered, would signing him for a year be any worse than giving Eaton another shot? I feel like Garcia's going to show up somewhere in the East recovered and be a new man at our expense. Maybe that's too many years of Philly jinx speaking. Kosball - I have your 46 years with one championship beat and those demons may be clouding my judgement. Someone wave a cheesesteak under my nose to get my senses back.

I've thought the same thign about Garcia, but my guess is he didn't fit here. He didn't seem happy, and the team didn't seem to embrace him. He played down how injured he was, and always looked angry when Charlie pulled him after the 4 2/3 ip, 5 run special.

The word is the Phils keep trying to voerpay Rowand for 3 years instead of giving him $10-12 mil per for 5 years. I like that approach.

Gillick is a genius take away Barajas and every move he has made is defendable...
This is an offensive team that is exciting to watch. Howard will smash 55+ homers next year. Utely and Rollins and Vic will allow us to manufature runs. We will miss Bourn as a late inning speed/defensive replacement for Burrell. If PTB can have a 3/4 good mos we are the team to beat. Remember you win a 1/3 lose 1/3 its the other 1/3 that decides things and this team is hungry loose has enough heart to he tough gms...

Lighten Up Philly Bashers....

Its not about the money. Look at final 4 last year. Its about intensity and mgmt.

Add my voice to those saying, good for the Phils for not overpaying for the mediocre talent available out there. I just hope they continue; sounds like there's a lot of temptation to overpay yet hanging around.

I'm glad to see that the Bedard "deal" was a false rumor. The Phils will not be able to re-sign Rowand under any circumstances, I feel certain. Trading Victorino for anything would mean the team would have gone from 3 good CF options to NONE. And has anyone noted that Kendrick's rookie season was just about as good as Bedard's 2006 season? Bedard has had one good season (2006), one excellent season (2007), and mediocrity for his other seasons. He's 28 and will cost beau coup bucks; Kendrick is 23 and is under team control for several years. Frankly, I wouldn't even trade Kendrick for Bedard straight-up! Throwing Shane into the deal would make the team WORSE than it would be with no trade.

How about completing that (Metro of all places) rumored deal that would acquire Eric Bedard from the Orioles for Victorino, Kendrick and two unnamed prospects? (Any idea who the prospects Phillies have offered, Todd?)...They'd have to make sure and sign Rowand in order to have a centerfielder, but isn't this the kind of bold move that could do the trick and send us into the season with a prime starting staff without sacrificing too much on the field?

I usually fall into the positive/optimist crowd with Tim, Matt, JH and others, but I have to say I have concern about the fact that they have not made progress in ANY of the key areas of need -- not in the stated top priority of starting pitching, not at 3rd base (despite originally saying Helms/Dobbs would be sufficient), not centerfield, not catcher. Heck, you NEVER here the national analysts mention the Phils as players in ANY of they key free agent discussions. And no, I don't think the team should overpay for just anyone, but the fact is they will never secure top line pitching talent if they don't overpay. That is why they are not in the mix for Santana. The supply of top quality starting pitching is the most constrained part of the baseball labor pool, and in order to improve your pitching you HAVE to overpay.

The Phillies need to understand: If everyone is "overpaying," then that amount is the new "Market Rate." The Phillies do not want to get into this new market of higher prices. They want to compete in the 2007-2008 market using 2000-2001 figures.

Sorry Don, that would be a disaster. Victorino is about to have a breakout year--50+ steals will make almost every bb or single into a double. On Rowand, there must be more to the problem than we are hearing. He wants 5 years; the Phils offer 3. One does not have to be Alan Greenspan to figure out a compromise at 4. As for Helms--get rid of him for anything. He's as big a disappointment as Barrajas. The most intriguing question is why do so many Phillies' pitchers get hurt? Do we have an overuse/overtraining problem?

well, as for rowand it seems that no other team wants to give him a 5 year deal either. he would be signed already if they did. unless him and his agent is playing hardball with everyone...

and about this overpaying part, it seems almost no one is overpaying for pitching this year - yet. with the exception of a few relievers. i wonder if they are waiting for a deal like santana to set the bench mark...it seems like they are willing to overpay for rowand for less years and the reports of the phillies offer for lowell was overpaying.

It just seems like this team will be worse then last year. Lidge was a nice move and I like Myers in the rotation but when you subtract Lohse, Rowand, Bourn and a few mediocre relievers I wonder whether this will even be a playoff team?? The Mets and the Braves will be making moves and the Phils need to keep up. If Gillick can't get any pitchers I hope he at least gets a guy who can hit lefties. Rowand was a key guy last year. Think how many clutch game winning hits he had last year. With the current lineup this team will hit even worse vs. lefties than last year. Get Rowand or Feliz or somebody in here. Does anyone think Burrell and Werth can play everyday and protect the heart of this lineup? Are we comfortable with the last 3 rotation spots or the bulpen? We have a great young nucleus, one of the best in baseball now and argueably the Phillies best ever nucleus. Let's do something with it.

Jared,the Mets and Braves havent done much. The Phils have done more than both of them. The Mets got two mediocre catchers in a about a weeks span, thats their big moves so far. I agree the Phils gotta get a big right handed bat. The whole market thing is pathetic.I like Lohse, but Lohse is a perfect example. He is 10 games under .500 for his career,never had an ERA under 4.20 for a season, and he will get paid 7-10 mil. per year. To me thats crazy, but thats the market,its ridiculous!!

This club is only interested in filling seats on bobble head day or whatever gimmick gets a rear end in them. This club has no intention of competing with anyone to the level that fans have hoped for for years. The owners are happy the brass keep their jobs the system they have in place is make it interesting and hope for the best.The fact of pitching being a major need is a joke to these clods. They have no intention of spending dollar 1 unless its a retread of some lame 3rd tier guy who pitched well against us. This clubs achilles heel has always been pitching so do you think they will suddenly change? They have more excuses than answers because that is what Philly ownership and brass do. The spindoctoring they do is magnificent each season as to the why and why not of doing the right thing. The fan base for each major club in town gets the usual rhetoric and the same results. CLOSE BUT NO CIGAR! So dont get upset with those Phitins for coming home with ZERO to show for the winter meetings it is just the same old story with a new spin. You can look right accross the street and hear the Joe Banner spindoctoring on the Eagles this week on WIP. These are professionals who do this for a living your just a fan and cannot understand the ins and outs of professional sports like these brainfarts. PALEEEESE!

i agree with the guys who say the phillies are doing the right thing. There is garabge out there in the FA market. I would rather take a 1 year $7 million dollar risk on a retread or 2 than throw $40 million at Kyle Loshe. If the retread fails bring up a guy from double A. Can that guy pitch worse than loshe?

for those who claim the phillies are being cheap and not trying to win. Who should they sign? Name one guy that is out there that you can tell me is a sure thing #1-#2 or even #3 starter?

SIlva may get you to the #3 spot...maybe

and stop talking about Santana or the Cabrera/Willis deal.

Reports are The twins asked the Mets for Reyes.

and the mets have been dangling guys for years for WIllis. Florida didn't want to trade him in division. Cabrera I would have loved to have but when bourne went for lidge that possibility was gone.

now one thing we may be able to do is trade Gordon and some sort of prospect (maybe even ruiz) for willis. I have heard detroit wants to cut down on the payroll and I have heard a rumored Willis/Pudge deal to the mets. We don't have the high minors prospects the mets have pitching wise, but this may be a deal we can swing. The question is, does this deal help?

I agree with the level-headed folks here who are saying its not worth it to break the bank for this year's FA class. I would rather the Phils take the 20 or so million they'd have to pay for a short-term pitcher and funnel that money into rebuilding a top-of-the-line minor league system (like the one they had in the '70s). Today's free agents are nothing more than mercenaries looking out for themselves. Speaking of mercenaries, I'm kind of surprised by Aaron Rowand. He struck me as a total team guy. Oh well. Let this be a reminder to all the sucker fans paying tons of money for parking, tickets, concessions, etc, that it's all about the money and nothing else. Want a real game of baseball? Go visit your local high school in the spring.

Like another poster said upthread, I can't believe somebody was dumb enough to want the Phillies to sign Pedro Feliz. Feliz flat out stinks. He would not be an improvement in any way over the Dobbs/Helms two-headed monster. If anything, he might be worse, *and* he would be twice as expensive. Inge is the same deal. And so is Iguchi, sad to say. Iguchi's a pretty decent second baseman, but at 3B his bat would only be slightly better than Dobbs/Helms and his glove would no longer be an asset. The best thing for both the Phillies and Iguchi is for Iguchi to go somewhere else and play everyday at second.

Salisbury's column was pretty stupid. Phillies fans always want to mortgage the future to win now. Then, once it turns out that the team traded Julio Franco and Ryne Sandberg to do so, they blame management. It's the same old story, year after year, decade after decade. Nobody ever learns.