The Zo Zone

TZ, is there anything to the Beltre for Carrasco and Eaton rumors?

Also, anyone know- who did they drop/DFA from their 40 man roster to make room for Jenkins and Durbin Part Deux?

I mentioned that to somebody at the Phillies yesterday and he laughed. I can't imagine why the Phillies would trade their top prospect for a third baseman owed $24 million over the next two seasons, even if it meant giving up Eaton's contract. As bad as Eaton was last season, they can't just give away starting pitching at this point. They need to hold onto as much as possible and hope they hit with somebody.

Keep in mind Gillick said they weren't interested in Lowell yet ESPN reported they were willing to offer him a contract. He also said that Meyers was going to be the closer next year than pulled the Lidge deal.

I agree with Bob Ford that the Phils need to do more. Offensively they are weaker without Rowand and Bourn. Jenkins is okay but gives you another 130 k's from the left side. Third base is inadequate offensively and defensively. With more offense this team can win in the regular season but this pitching staff is too thin to win in the playoffs.

I'd sign Cameron, Feliz, and Chacon. We could go into the season with some boppers and hopefully trade for another starter at mid-season. Currently we are no better than last year, which is not good enough considering we won the division on the last day of the season and then were swept in the playoffs.

Say we ain't done, T.Z.!

Ugh, Feliz had a sub .300 obp last year. Why not just bring back Nunez? Cameron hit .244 and will miss the first 25 games for his SECOND drug violation. And both of them are Group B free agents, which will require compensation. Chacon is interesting, because he can start or relieve, but he's not a real upgrade.

I think relievers not named mesa or alfonseca is an upgrade. Todd did you hear anything new on Otsuka? I read the Padres are interested in him to which is bad because Iguchi is a friend of his so that might be another I'd rather go West than play for the Phils player.

go after otsuka and lofton

then try and get Prior or that type of player for a 1 yr $7 mil or less deal

The Phillies pass off arrogance as intelligence...Their high and mighty act is wearing thin. I am not a firm believer in the "we know better than you" mentality that they seem to have. I know they need to be smart about their moves...but one smart thing to do would be to make a move that might (just maybe!) push the team over the edge. This team has contended in recent years and should continue to do so, but as long as this front office sits on their hands that is all we will do, contend.

The team has only weakened since last season with the loss or Rowand, Bourn, Iguchi, etc. Heck, even Lieber could be more effective (provided, if healthy) than Eaton on his best day. Who's to say that Victorino, who will have to cover a lot more ground now, will hold up in center? He didn't do last year in his first full season in right! Jayson Werth caught lightening in a bottle at the end of the year, but does anyone remember how terrible he was in the beginning of the season. I'm just not sure his stellar second half of last year warrants the starting job.

They made an honest run (supposedly) at Lowell and lost. That's no reason to hang it up. They need help and if they don't see that, it's a lost cause long before pitchers and catchers report. At least their new unis are tight!

the phillies can't be finished until they get an utility infielder to give utley and rollins a break. why don't they just stop playing around and sign nunez back. he's or defensive 3rd basemen and he can play 2nd and shortstop. we cant forget about backing up utley and jroll. i don't know if that guy they got from houston can do that or if he could play as good defense as nunez did

For those of you concerned about the Phils offense, I have six words that should be of great comfort. Pat...Burrell...In...A...Contract...Year. How do you think he received his last bloated contract?

As far as the 'pen goes. We should leave no stone unturned. I like the Durbin signing as a stop gap starter in case of the inevitable injuries. No denying we need a another lefty option. Can we count on Zagurski? Or is his conditioning as much a problem as it appears to be?

I think adding another starter is a pipe dream. I agree with the front office's assessment of the slop that's available. We're stuck with a Hamels, Myers, and pray for rain rotation.

Relax.

Jenkins (as the lefty part of the platoon) is the starting RF. Werth gets 250-300 at bats at most.

Most nights you are facing a righthander, you have Rollins, Victorino, Utley, Howard, Burrell, Jenkins, Dobbs, Ruiz. If you think that is susceptible to a late-inning lefty, switch Ruiz and Dobbs in the order, so you go l-r-l-r-l. Plus, you have Werth, Coste, Helms as righthanded hitters on the bench just in case Charlie wants to pinch-hit for a lefty.

Bruntlett is the utility infielder.

Lidge is better than anything we had in the pen last year, and Myers is better than anything we had in the rotation last year, with the exception of Hamels.

Eaton was awful last year, but it was by far the worst season of his career. It is not out of the question he could win 12 games and have a 4.50 ERA, which is fine for a fifth starter.

I'm glad Pat Gillick's not Santa Claus, all the children would be crying at Xmas time. He's a scrooogge, baa hum bug !

The Ghost of Kevin Stocker makes a lot of sense. Better off going into the season with a surplus of talent than a deficit. The Phils can win some regular season games with their pop but forget the post season. With an additional player available maybe they have something to trade at mid-season. Right now we have nothing.

Not having won anything since 1980 now all of a suddent we're worried about Class B free agents? The Phils won the East by one game on the last day of the season and got a lot of help from a monumental collapse by the Mets. Can we go into this season hoping for the same?

We need another significant outfielder and an everyday third baseman to go along with another pitcher. Get a couple of players now, one of which you may be able to trade in July when a pitcher may become available. Right now the Phils do not have a viable plan to go farther than last year (or possibly as far).

Ok, jr, you're going off the deep end. The Phils and Mets both played a 162 game schedule. The Phils finished with a better record. If the Mets collapsed at the end, then did the Phillies "collapse" in April?

Um, yes, they should worry about giving up draft picks for mediocre free agents like Feliz and Cameron. Part of the struggles they have in the minors is because from 2000-2005 they had the least amount of draft picks in MLB, due to free agent signings like Bell and Thome.

And signing Mike Cameron now in no way guarantees that a team will trade a top flight pitcher for him at the deadline. Why would a team do that, when they could sign him now w/o giving up a pitcher?

Also, please tell me what the Mets have done this offseason, or the Rockies for that matter? Maybe you'd be happy if we spent like the Cubs last year, except for the fact that the Phils had a better record than them and had the same results in the playoffs. Its conviently forgotten that they won last year despite injuries to Garcia, Lieber, Myers, Hamels, Utley, Victorino, Bourn, Madson, and Gordon. Seriously, is it all doom and gloom in Philly?

I left Philly about 8 years ago but am a diehard Phillies, Eagles and Flyers fan and will be for life. Everytime I read this blog I'm reminded how depressing Philly fans can be. You're right RG, why is it all gloom and doom in Philly? They won the division last year, with all those injuries and that April start. The Mets collapse helped and will be a nice thing to remind them of every game of each season for the next ten years. The payroll is in the top tier of the league. What are the chances that they'll have the injury problem next year that they had this year. They have Bruntlett as a utility infielder, will fix third base and will either pickup another outfielder or someone will step up in spring training. They'll also get another pitcher or two. Next year is looking pretty good for Phillies baseball. Relax

Time will tell my Kool-Aid drinking friends whether the Phils have sufficient talent to get to the big show. Many of us are long-suffering and with the nucleus we have now to all of a sudden go cheap is beyond me.

The Phils are good enough to compete for the division title. But how does their starting rotation stack up with other teams when it comes to the playoffs. We're a bit thin at a couple of positions. If, for instance, Victorino goes down like he did last year, we do not have a backup. Last year we had some depth.

I hope RG and our other blogging friends are right. Just seems like this is an opportune time to make a leap forward.

It's not that I'm a big Pedro Feliz fan but he is a huge upgrade over Helms and Nunez. He was 2nd in the majors in fielding at 3rd base, 4th in Range Factor, and 1st in Zone Rating (which was reported on by Todd). He has averaged 21 HR's and 84 RBI's in the NL stingiest hitting ballparks over the past 4 years. Does that translate into 25-30 hrs. and 100 RBI's in Philly? Decide for yourself. He is an elite fielder by statistical standards. Look for yourself.

Sortable Fielding:
NAME GP GS INN TC PO A E DP FPCT RF ZR

Akinori Iwamura, TB
120 120 1042.1 283 79 197 7 17 .975 2.38 .762
Pedro Feliz, SF
143 137 1220.0 406 93 302 11 28 .973 2.91 .852
Aramis Ramirez, ChC
126 126 1091.1 358 88 260 10 19 .972 2.87 .780
Melvin Mora, Bal
120 120 1051.1 349 79 260 10 18 .971 2.90 .777
Chipper Jones, Atl
126 126 1081.2 310 75 226 9 17 .971 2.51 .797
Scott Rolen, StL
112 108 935.0 321 85 226 10 22 .969 2.99 .847
Troy Glaus, Tor
114 110 928.0 269 63 197 9 24 .967 2.52 .737
Alex Rodriguez, NYY
154 154 1330.0 370 106 251 13 30 .965 2.42 .765
Garrett Atkins, Col
154 153 1319.0 349 84 252 13 34 .963 2.29 .722
Casey Blake, Cle
145 134 1209.0 371 99 258 14 24 .962 2.66 .737
Alex Gordon, KC
137 129 1135.0 360 99 247 14 22 .961 2.74 .751
Mike Lowell, Bos
154 150 1324.1 384 105 264 15 34 .961 2.51 .778
Abraham Nunez, Phi
113 51 594.2 225 41 175 9 12 .960 3.27 .810

Range Factor
NAME GP GS INN TC PO A E DP FPCT RF R

Abraham Nunez, Phi
113 51 594.2 225 41 175 9 12 .960 3.27 .810
Ryan Zimmerman, Was
161 161 1432.2 511 140 348 23 39 .955 3.07 .811
Scott Rolen, StL
112 108 935.0 321 85 226 10 22 .969 2.99 .847
Jose Bautista, Pit
126 122 1065.2 361 95 251 15 16 .958 2.92 .740
Pedro Feliz, SF
143 137 1220.0 406 93 302 11 28 .973 2.91 .852
Melvin Mora, Bal
120 120 1051.1 349 79 260 10 18 .971 2.90 .777
Adrian Beltre, Sea
147 146 1279.1 426 121 287 18 24 .958 2.87 .766
Aramis Ramirez, ChC
126 126 1091.1 358 88 260 10 19 .972 2.87 .780
Brandon Inge, Det
150 146 1310.2 434 91 325 18 25 .959 2.86 .803
Alex Gordon, KC
137 129 1135.0 360 99 247 14 22 .961 2.74 .751
David Wright, NYM
159 159 1418.1 452 107 324 21 24 .954 2.73 .771

Zone Rating
NAME GP GS INN TC PO A E DP FPCT RF ZR
Pedro Feliz, SF
143 137 1220.0 406 93 302 11 28 .973 2.91 .852
Scott Rolen, StL
112 108 935.0 321 85 226 10 22 .969 2.99 .847
Ryan Zimmerman, Was
161 161 1432.2 511 140 348 23 39 .955 3.07 .811
Abraham Nunez, Phi
113 51 594.2 225 41 175 9 12 .960 3.27 .810
Brandon Inge, Det
150 146 1310.2 434 91 325 18 25 .959 2.86 .803
Chipper Jones, Atl
126 126 1081.2 310 75 226 9 17 .971 2.51 .797
Aramis Ramirez, ChC
126 126 1091.1 358 88 260 10 19 .972 2.87 .780
Mike Lowell, Bos
154 150 1324.1 384 105 264 15 34 .961 2.51 .778
Edwin Encarnacion, Cin
137 134 1168.0 340 112 212 16 21 .953 2.50 .777
Melvin Mora, Bal
120 120 1051.1 349 79 260 10 18 .971 2.90 .777
David Wright, NYM
159 159 1418.1 452 107 324 21 24 .954 2.73 .771
Adrian Beltre, Sea
147 146 1279.1 426 121 287 18 24 .958 2.87 .766

Batting
2004 SF 144 503 72 139 33 3 22 84 23 85 5 2 .276 .305 .485 .790
2005 SF 156 569 69 142 30 4 20 81 38 102 0 2 .250 .295 .422 .717
2006 SF 160 603 75 147 35 5 22 98 33 112 1 1 .244 .281 .428 .709
2007 SF 150 557 61 141 28 2 20 72 29 70 2 2 .253 .290 .418 .708

I like the Jenkins/Durbin moves. Jenkins was the big piece they needed offensively to maintain their best in the NL status. Durbin adds depth so we aren't scrambling if a starter goes down or pitches poorly. I would be happy going into the season with this roster or maybe one more bulpen piece. I understand if Gillick is nervous of the free agent market after his past signings and the crap out there now. And I won't blame him or the organization for being cheap as long as they add to the team during the season like the trading deadline. I have faith that Pat can get a Starter or Reliever at the deadline because he has in the past. He gave up marginal prospects that haven't amounted to anything to get Moyer, Loshe etc.

No matter what some people want to say about Feliz, I don't think he's that much of an upgrade over Helms and Dobbs. I would agree that the Phils might want to look at another utility guy (I'm not sold on Bruntlett either). If they can get a starter and not spend a ton of money or give an incentive laden deal, I'd take it. Benson and Prior would fit the bill, and Colon might also.

Right now with the Phils projected lineup they will see every lefthanded pitcher that an organization can fine. Of the right handed bats last year, Ruiz hit only .189 against lefties, and we all know Wes Helms was a no hit, no field automatic out no matter who was on the hill. Of course Coste hit over .400 against lefties but Gillick would only let Charlie play him if Ruiz could not go. And in 5 years with Houston Bruntlett rarely played third base so we do not even know if he can field the position.

To me the key to the season is third base. With what is there now the Phils must be penciled in for third place behind the Braves and the Mets in the divison. They both have All-Star caliber third basemen. Actually when Gillick dumped Nunez's glove at the end of season the team will be weaker at third in 08 year than last year!

Yo jrquixote on your stats posting:

To quote a caveman commercial, "Uh, what?"

Geico, stop hiding behind initials. When you stop starching your diaper with feces you may write in again. When you're a man talk to us. In the mean time maybe the Phils will sell you a ticket if your parents pay for it.

Instead of spending $6 million a year on Feliz, what about extending a spring training invite to a post-hype guy like Dallas McPherson. I realize he is a lefty who strikes out a ton, but his power potential in Citizens Bank Park would be through the roof.

I also think Coste could get some starts at 3B if Helms struggles.

Jr Quixote - I am all for spending money to sign big-time guys...they have been a cheap organization for most of my lifetime. I just don't see the guys available to spend money on...although I wouldn't think twice about bringing in Prior.

Again it is not that I am enamored with Feliz. Helms/Dobbs are a defensive liability and on the whole provided the least offensively productive 3rd base in the National League last year.

Where we depart is not so much on our love or not for Feliz (or anyone else) but rather this need to watch the Phils' pocketbook. We have all been schnookered by their crying poor mouth. The year 2007 will provide team record revenue and net profit. They can afford a lot more than they have let on. I don't care what it costs them to field a 3rd baseman.

A $200 million revenue stream can easity support a $120 million payroll. The Phils are a limited partnership. Dave Montgomery is the General (read Revenue) partner while the owners are limited partners. Children don't undrstand limited partnerships or facts for that matter, they call names. It goes away when they leave elementary school.

As general partner, Dave Montgomery is remunerated by a percentage of net revenue. Everytime he vetoes a trade or gets someone for $400,000 he personally makes more money. In fact, Montgomery has no other way of making money. They don't teach that in 4th grade.

The limited partners get deduction pass throughs, loss pass throughs, loss carryovers, equity, and very little income. However they are on the hook to produce cash when the team is short. That is not in most elementary school curriculums.

So whether we can afford Feliz or Prior or Cameron or anyone else has only to do with the amount of income Dave Montgomery desires this year. I don't worry about this nor should any fan. Fans have a sole interest in the Phillies winning. They are swimming in cash. Sorry if the Fantasy Geeks and children who blog here don't get it.

Jenkins and Durbin are fine. It's disheartening for Gillick to say we might be done but I don't think we are.

We are one good starter away. A No. 3 starter and this is a very good club with bullpen guys like Durbin and Madson who can start if there are injuries.

I do not love Livan Hernandez and have read how his stats are going downhill in some ways. But he still seems like the best of the bunch. I'd sign him to one or two years. Then, let's go. The team is ready. Nicely done.

3B is not a major problem. I like Dobbs and we have depth. The Schmidt 3B era is way over but now we have infield power guys like Utley, Howard and Rollins instead of Denny Doyle/Dave Cash/Manny Trillo, an aging Pete Rose and Bowa. So, what we lose at 3B we more than gain elsewhere with Rollins, Utley and Howard.

We are one healthy, 14-win starter away.

I would like to see the Phillies spend $120 mil to win a world series as the next guy(or girl). They make a lot of money and probably SHOULD have a higher payroll. But they have established themselves and how much they are willing to spend. They have been doing this for years and won't change their mind tomorrow morning after reading the Zo Zone. Personally, I don't think they will change in the near future so I don't worry about it. Yes it's annoying sometimes but the only other options are picking a new team, not rooting at all or just dealing with it. I will always root for them but just go to 5 games instead of 10. Their team is respectable and can compete with any team in the NL so I'm content just giving them the benefit of the doubt and waiting for the games to play out. If they need help then they can make a trade. The off-season moves are probably complete so now we just have the very long wait until pitchers and catchers. (with no help from the eagles or sixers and their awful teams this year but thats another story for another blog)

Quixote: You are wrong and you have no perspective.

If you own the Red Sox you own NESN, the sports-cable franchise in New England, which makes their revenues and profits more than triple -- TRIPLE -- what the Phillies are. Yet, their baseball payroll is "only" $50 million more. Triple would be $200 million more. The Yankees have the New York cable market, which even trumps the Red Sox in terms of cash flow.

You take those two clubs away and the Phillies are competitive in what they spend. Hey, the Rockies won the friggin' NL last year at, what, $60 million? Half of the Phillies' payroll? And Quixote is blasting Montgomery for ONLY doubling the Rockies?

Quixote, come clean: You work for the government or a non-profit. I know that because you have no clue on the private sector.

Stop telling us we are grade schoolers and fantasy geeks and show that you know the sports industry beyond Broad Street.

Phills should resign Nunez, if helms does not hit better than last year they couls use Nunez against lefthanders. He hit 280 against lefthanded pitching last year and his glove would be a very strong asset. I would like to see them sign Dotel pending him passing a phsical and move Madson to th rotation. i Know he did not do well in the past in that role but he has the ability to succeed. If not Dotel than Lieber with contions that he reports at a certain weight. Burrel will be very important next year as he will be our only Right handed power and willprobably be backing up Howard.

RG may mock the Cubs all he wants. I say Ted Lilly would have looked real good here last year (John Marzano, incidentally,before last season on WIP practically begged the Phillies to acquire him)...Yeah, it's how you spend the bread...It's also disingenuous for the Phillies to be holding their payroll close to last year's when they (surprisingly) increased their attendance to over three million...And that's true no matter whether their cable deal is NESN or a resurrected Prism.

What about Garciapara for 3B? He played 3B for the Cubs 2 years ago. If he could return to his form he woud be a strong adittion to the Phills and give them better balance against left handers. My guess is his contract would make hin prohibitive for the Phills. Amiddle lineup of Utley Garciapara, Howard Burrel and Jenkins would be scarry.

I am deeply disappointed to have come so close and not do anything in the off season. Gillick with his no long term bullshit. And the tightwads that run the team. let's due an evaluation. Subtracting Rowand, we lose at least a run a game. Add a number of strikeouts for the new guy. Lose about 40 points off of the batting average and even more off of onbase %.
Another lefthanded batter, just what we needed better to hit righthanded pitchers. Does Gillick realize they also have lefthanded pitchers. Burrel, and Rollins being the only power from the right side scares me. Especially, since, Charlie pulls him in the 6th inning.
Way to go stand pat. you ruined the offseason. And the really scary thing is will Amaro be any better.

The Boston Red Sox revenue is $234 million including all sources. Their 2007 payroll was $143 million or 61% of revenue. Their debt/value ratio is 33% or $239 million, which is amazing considering that Fenway Park was paid off 60 years ago.

The Phillies 2007 revenue is $200 million. Their debt/value ration is 38% or $173 million, which consists primarily of the mortgage on Citizen’s Bank Ballpark. The Phillies reported their 2007 salaries to be $103 million but this was done with smoke and mirrors. Because of lengthy injuries to Garcia, Lieber, Madson, Gordon, Victorino and others, they received disability insurance reimbursements of more that $20 million, thus placing their 2007 salaries at about $80 million or 40% of team revenue. Without those insurance reimbursements in hand, the Phillies would not have been able or willing to make the September call-ups who helped them down the stretch. Their 2008 salaries will be less than 50% of revenue.

I’d like to make a suggestion to eman, rg, geico, and the like. You need to come to the table with more than name calling. They’re called facts. Otherwise you may state your opinion like everyone else. Remember children, Santa will be coming soon, so you need to be good. Maybe you can go back to your Chutes and Ladders game and your parents can read you a bedtime story.

Hey, Joe Dever, Jenkins has averaged 21 HR and 70 RBI over his 10 yr,. career. Rowand's numbers are 13 HR and 50 RBI (including his off-the-chart contract-year) over 7 years. So how are they losing a run a game with Aaron gone? Yeah, Jenkins strikes out, but I'll take that bay any day. And I'd say adding Lidge - which also adds Myers to the rotation -helps. As does keeping Romero.

If they can add another starter, great, but I think we're fine at third with a platoon of Dobbs and Helms. Like a few reasonable people have said: Relax. They'll either win or they won't. Overspending ain't the answer.

if they are donr then they are finished..no problem I'm used to it.

I think you guys are forgetting the state of Baseball right now. No One has 4-5 strong starters. Free agent pithcers are far and few between, and unless you have a strong minor league system, which we do not, then you have no chips to trade with. The lidge move gave us back a number 2 starter. Now what we need to do is hold onto the 6 and 7th potential starting pitchers in the bullpen that can spot start WHEN two guys go down with injuries. Durbin, Gordon, Madsen (?) Romero, in the bullpen makes them average, in a league where average wins when you score 5 runs a game.
Those who complain we're cheap will never be satisfied. What's the payroll..topping 100 mil? This team just won the division and you act like we finished below the Marlins.
Correct about 3rd base. Jenkins pop let's him hit 6th. I see Hank Blaylock dangling out there for a trade and try to figure that one out. If not..then get rid of rosario and replace with another reliever and and report to camp in 9 weeks.

Thanks for some perspective, guys. All of you screaming that they should spend more money were almost definitely the ones crying about Burrell's contract, $10 mil on Garcia, etc. Its about quality, why is this so difficult to understand? Almost every analyst said how awful Rowand's contract was, yet you guys want to deal with that mess when he's 34 and hitting .260 with 15 hrs? Whose to say they don't spend next year, if the free agent class is better?

I'll also bet my bottom dollar that if I could hop in the time machine, you were the ones crying about how the Phils couldn't compete in the NL East because the Mets went out and got Glavine, Pedro, Delgado, Beltran and Wagner. Glavine was a bust, Pedro is hurt, and delgado has fallen off a cliff. Wagner's also on the decline.

Don, Ted Lilly was a better choice than Eaton, no doubt. But that Soriano contract was a joke, and Marquis wasn't much better. The point was, they were the big offseason "champs" last year and did not outperform the Phils. Oh and how quickly everyone forgets last offseason's object of affection, Barry Zito, and his 7 year, $126 mil deal for a 3rd starter.

As for stand Pat, I guess all you whiners forget his aquisitions of Moyer, Iguchi, Lohse and Romero for next to nothing. Not to mention trading Thome for Rowand to free up room for Howard. Or dealing spare parts for Lidge. When you guys can take all 4 teams you've GM'd to the playoffs then come talk to me.

You are so invested in misery and defeat, go root for the Yankees, they've spent over a billion dollars the past 7 years, that'll make you happy.

And jr, its a fact, you are whining and have been doing so for the past 4 weeks. Your facts are terrible, sign Cameron so we can trade him at the deadline? Pure nonsense. We can't change owners, so either stop rooting for them, or stop whining like a child. Whaaaa, someone I don't know won't spend millions to make me happy, whaaaaa!

And I'm just kidding about the whining stuff, lighten up.

One thing to remember- it's December 22. Spring training doesn't start for two months. I know Gillick is saying that he's pretty much done in terms of off-season moves; I'm not buying it.

Dever- Rowand was great while he was here but he wasn't worth what the Giants paid him. I'd rather have the outfield we have now and the two draft picks we got from SF. Same goes for Loshe; I'm not spending the kind of cash they're talking about to sign him for a #4 starter, at best. We've got our overpaid stiff in Eaton, we don't need another.

Kudos to Don Whitman. I read this blog entirely too much and I see a trend. Everyone says the phillies should spend more, but have no ideas on how to spend it. Garciappara is a great idea.

And for everybody crying that we lost bourn....what has he done? he got his chance to play when victorino went down and lasted what 2 weeks?

Overall, I am happy with the Phils offseason. I have always been a jenkins fan, but I would have rather seen a different OF maybe lofton...or dare I say it bonds.

ANd for everyone complaining how bad we are at 3B, I say does it matter? We have the best offense are we some how a better team if we shift utley to 3B and make helms/dobbs our 2B, where we stack up would look a lot better.

At this point if I am the phils, I would still like to see us go for lofton (want someone more proven than roberson to be our backup CF), otsuka would be nice, a low risk high reward starter ala prior or benson, and a 3B with a good glove and good average preferably right handed..and I don't know if that guy is available anymore

Wow, so many complainers!
Rowand is not worth it! Jenkins/ Werth platoon will have better results than Rowand, they will face favorable match-ups 80-90% of the time.
Prior will get too much money, Benson is cheaper, but the Phil's will probably miss the boat for him while they wait and see.
SPEND SPEND SPEND??? They have in the past and it burned them (Garcia, Lieber, Abreu, Burrell), there have been many teams that win WS that do not have a payroll over $80 mill (Marlins, Braves, St. Louis).
3B-Bruntlett, Helms and Dobbs will make it work, we have other positions that make-up for the lack of numbers there.
Gillick has made good decisions this offseason; Bourn for Lidge, very nice, moved Meyers to rotation. Picked up more power and a lefty OF bat in Jenkins. Romero resigned for a good price.
Spend on what? Mediocre players? Oh, I get it you all just want something to bitch about in a couple of years. Sorry that Gillick is trying to make better decisions than the past, trying to keep draft picks, build around a solid young core, and save money by not spending $50 mill. on a lifetime .500 pitcher that will only be a 3-4 in the rotation.
The Phil's do need that 3rd pitcher to rise to the top and support Hamels and Meyers throughout the season. Who will it be? (Kendrick, Durbin, Durbin, Blackley, Eaton, Benson, Outman, Carasco, or another not yet in the arsenal) History shows it takes 3 strong pitchers!

Everyone (okay, most of you) want to see more money spent. They already spend a lot. The decisions have to be better. Gillick hit on some, missed on others, but so has every other GM. I stopped listening to management's spin last summer when Meyers was only going to be shut down for a week to ten days. How long did that last? "We're okay at 3rd base." Hello Mike Lowell! Everyone on this Board is obviously a Big Time fan, who cares an awful lot about this team, or they wouldn't read and post. We can bitch all we want but that won't get us to the "Promised Land." I'm "pushing" 50 years of following my boyhood team and I have opinions too. For those interested, that opinion is, we have zero input into the decisions made. It is what it is!

I think Pat G. is doing a great job, and has done so since he's been here. Not every move will pan out, and the only one that really sucked was Garcia, because he was really hurt when we got him, and I think somebody knew it. The Eaton deal wasn't that bad at the time if you recall, and he could bounce back this year, ya never know! Jenkins may strikeout alot, but did everyone forget Rowand always swinging and missing all those down and away pitches??? Besides that solo shot in the playoffs, Rowand's other AB's were pretty bad, and he was the one with so called "postseason experience". And the guy who thinks the Phils have done nothing in this offseason is plain crazy!!! I think they have been the most active team, if not, top 2 or 3 for sure. RELAX PEOPLE!!!!!

I'm okay with Jenkins. We don't necessarily need another outfielder in my opinion but Lofton would be okay.

If we're leaving 3B as it is (as it was last year really) I'd be inclined to pick up Nunez for his defense. Even if you don't start him, he can play when Moyer and maybe Kendrick pitch. He proved he was good to have out there for the ground ball pitchers even if he has no real bat. He could be the all around extra infielder in that case. You lose some bat but get good defense if someone goes down.

I think Pat will make more pitching moves. I'd really like to see another starter but maybe Durbin is it. I still think they may make one more bullpen move like Otsuka. I feel like a full year of Romero, Lidge, and Madson healthy makes the bullpen better and improves the rotation by putting Myers back. Gordon's not done in my opinion but can't be overused. Having more back-end pen guys allows us to use him effectively without him going down. It's so hard to predict pitching with injuries though. One more pen addition would be nice insurance. And what about some of the young names we saw last year and before in the pen -- Mathieson, Zagurski? A young guy may come on strong in spring training, at least at average or slighly above average levels and provide some level of consistency. We've already seen that you can't just buy your way in so I'm okay with them being cautious on some of these suspect players that are out there.

Garciapara could be available since the Dodgers have Loney for 1B and Andy Laroche for 3B 2 budding stars If not Nomar than Laroche would be a strong addition. We would have to give up one of our top pitching prospect for him. We do have anumber of interesting young arms though i.e. Carasco,Savery, Outman,Carpenter and Bastardo. Of course it takes two to make a deal.

Garciaparra is NOT the answer at 3rd base! He has played a total of 77 games at 3rd base in his career and has 12 errors! He hasnt played more than 118 games since 2003, and the 118 in 2006 was at first base. He is a good hitter, but his body hasnt held up since 2003. He only hit 7 homeruns last year in 431 AB's and drove in 59. I think whatever 3rd base combo they throw out there will do as good or better than Nomar, and cheaper to boot!!!!!

If you stop to think about it, the Phils are a better team than last year. Will Howard start the year hurting again? Not likely. Nobody hit in the beginning of the year. You also have to believe the Phils think they should win. They really believe what Rollins said before last season. They are the team to beat in the East. They could use one more reliever and of course an upgrade at third. After Hamels and Myers they need the rest of their starters to go 5 innings and get to the back of the bullpen. Right now they don't have enough to beat those awesome American league teams in a series but who really scares you in the N.L. Who's to say Helms won't hit .280 and Eaton is healthy and pitches up to his potential which would be a pretty good 3rd or 4th starter. The Phils won't be overpowering until a couple of those minor league starters come up. I wouldn't wait to long to bring that kid up they signed out of Rice. Think positive. "You Gotta Believe."

If you stop to think about it, the Phils are a better team than last year. Will Howard start the year hurting again? Not likely. Nobody hit in the beginning of the year. You also have to believe the Phils think they should win. They really believe what Rollins said before last season. They are the team to beat in the East. They could use one more reliever and of course an upgrade at third. After Hamels and Myers they need the rest of their starters to go 5 innings and get to the back of the bullpen. Right now they don't have enough to beat those awesome American league teams in a series but who really scares you in the N.L. Who's to say Helms won't hit .280 and Eaton is healthy and pitches up to his potential which would be a pretty good 3rd or 4th starter. The Phils won't be overpowering until a couple of those minor league starters come up. I wouldn't wait to long to bring that kid up they signed out of Rice. Think positive. "You Gotta Believe."

I wanted to add something to my comments above. The most distressing news I heard was that Pat Gillick has decided this is his last year. I don't know about anyone else but as soon as that guy came aboard you could sense the Phils where headed in the right direction by reading the paper. His decisions are very good. No GM was ever perfect but Gillick has the talent to pick up guys who don't appear to be major parts but who contribute way more then expected. It's what most Phillie GM's have struggled with. Any chowder head can sign the big free agent but the talent lies in the ability to pick up guys like Werth and Dobbs and Lohse and Moyer, etc. I wish Gillick would hang around at least until some of those pitchers he's drafting come up. It won't be long and the Phils could be frightening. After Gillick goes some yo-yo can screw it up. Not since Paul Owens have the Phils had a GM who had the talent to see real talent. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody like that Australian kid they got from the Giants or the latest Durbin (or the old Durbin for that matter) really came up big. I'll make a prediction. The Phillies win the N.L. East by 8 games.

We don't need Garciaparra. We need a good starter and not much more.
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Quixote, when you buy the Red Sox you also buy NESN -- New England Sports Netowrk. The Red Sox cost $230 million -- you are right -- but the cable network costs much more. Around $700 million. It's all part of the same company. You CANNOT buy one without the other.

And, guess what? When you buy the Red Sox and NESN you get the profits from -- both! And, the Red Sox 162-plus games are the most profitable "shows" on NESN. So you see how it all works nicely as a package, as if the Phillies and Comcast in Pennsylvania were all one big company (they are not). The profits are HUGE for the Sox, which is why wealthy, smart guys like John Henry and Tom Werner (a cable magnate who dated Katie Couric and is worth many times over more than Montgomery) have them and covet them.

With the Yankees and Mets owning those teams doesn't include owning cable companies or channels, but in the nation's No. 1 market their games command lucrative fees from cable providers. So they have much more money, too.

We didn't call you names. YOU called us fantasy geeks and something else. All I'm saying is for owning the ninth-best-attended team in baseball in the US's 7th or 8th biggest market, the Phillies are competitive in spending. They spent much more than the Rockies last year. You avoided that facy.

Todd Zolecki agrees with us. But you know more. You would like to sign every nonsensical, mediocre free agent out there (Cameron will miss the first month of the 2008 season due to a substance-abuse violation!) and turn the Phillies' into a non-profit. Gotcha.

Let's just get one more quality starter, OK?

The Phils winning the division by 8 games seems a bit much, given the talent (and the prospects to trade) that the Mets have, but they'll definitely be in the mix. They badly need a number three starter to follow Hamels and Myers. If Kendrick continues to develop like nobody but his dad thought he would, maybe he's that guy. I'd still like to see another starter signed. I'm Ok with the 3B situation - what team in the Majors gets more offense from its infield? I like Gillick very much and I'm convinced he's helping create an organization that can field winning teams for a long time (we now actually get draft picks!). Look at it this way: he's in the last year of his contract but he's not rushing to sign players that may help the team for a year but hurt them in the long term with bloated contracts. I'll be sorry to see Pat go.

“As general partner, Dave Montgomery is remunerated by a percentage of net revenue.”

“Their debt/value ration is 38% or $173 million, which consists primarily of the mortgage on Citizen’s Bank Ballpark.”

WHAT ABSOLUTE ROT.

A GP does not necessarily get a percentage of the revenues. Totally ridiculous.

The City owns CBP, therefore the Phillies, who do not own it, are in no position to give a mortgage on it. Their debt is probably lines of credit to smooth out cash flow.

"I mentioned that to somebody at the Phillies yesterday and he laughed. I can't imagine why the Phillies would trade their top prospect for a third baseman owed $24 million over the next two seasons, even if it meant giving up Eaton's contract. As bad as Eaton was last season, they can't just give away starting pitching at this point. They need to hold onto as much as possible and hope they hit with somebody."

Too bad Todd that we don't know which idiot you spoke to, since you never identify these "somebodies." It could be the janitor.

A third baseman owed $24M over the next two seasons doesn't sound too bad, considering what the Phillies have there, the fact that the third baseman in question is younger and better than Lowell, and the fact they were prepared to pay Lowell $25M over the next two seasons.

The Phillies should not readily part with their pitching prospects. On the other hand, they shouldn't be afraid to trade one if it means substantially improving the team. None of the the prospects are sure things and they have more than one.

Beltre is better than Lowell? I think you mixed the Egg Nog a little too early, mnjam. If we're going to trade our top prospect, let's get some top talent back. If you told me Carrasco was part of a deal to get Eric Bedard, I'm fine with that- not a middle of the road third baseman who parlayed a career year two years back with the Dodgers into a huge deal. We need another starter and another reliever-get those and we can win the East.

The New England Sports Network, or NESN [NESS-en], is a regional cable television network that covers the six New England states. It is broadcast throughout New England (except Fairfield County and most of New Haven and Litchfield counties in Connecticut). In the New England area, DirecTV carries it on channel 623, with channel 623 for HD). Comcast, in the city of Boston, has NESN on channel 13, but NESN HD is still on channel 851. The Boston Red Sox are a co-founder and the majority owner (80%) of NESN, with the Boston Bruins owning the remaining 20%. NESN is thus technically a unit of the New York Times Company's Boston Globe division, which is part of the Red Sox ownership group. Although it mainly broadcasts non-national Boston Red Sox and Boston Bruins games, NESN also features regional college sports including college hockey games on Friday nights, various fishing and hunting shows, and sports talk shows featuring the sports columnists of the Globe, as that paper is also owned by the New York Times. NESN was, for a time, the New England carrier for Fox Sports Net (before Sports Channel New England joined Fox Sports Net), after that, until early 2006, NESN carried ESPNEWS in the afternoon and overnight hours. NESN has carried regional Atlantic Coast Conference games since Boston College joined the conference.

PHILLIES' OWNER SEEKING TO SELL

March 7, 1981, Saturday

The world champion Philadelphia Phillies were offered for sale today by Ruly Carpenter, who said he was fed up with escalating player salaries and the baseball owners' willingness to pay them. The announcement came in a statement that Carpenter read in the locker room here to his stunned players, ...

For those of you interested:

Tennant: Philadelphia Phillies (NL 2004-present)
Groundbreaking: November, 2001
First National League game: April 12, 2004 (Cin 4, Phi 1)
Architects: EwingCole and HOK Sport
Construction: L. F. Driscoll Co. and Hunt Construction Group in association with Synterra, Ltd. and Don Todd Associates, Inc.

Cost: $458 million
- Phillies: $172 million
- Public funding: $174 million
- Sitework: $112 million
Owner: City of Philadelphia
Seating Capacity: 43,500 (2004); 43,826 (2005)

I think the dude said the Phillies had $173 million in stadium debt. Duh....I wonder if that could be true.

The Phillies are a limited partnership with Dave Montgomery as general partner and then there are four limited partners; Claire Betz, the Buck group, John Middleton, and Bill Giles. Those are the two classes of owner/investors. A limited partnership is simply a structured pass-through entity and the partnership agreement defines how financial benefits are distributed. There are many ways to do it as long as it conforms to IRS guidelines.

Typically wealthy investors seek tax deductions, loss pass-throughs, and an increased equity stake. To those type of investors, income is not of primary importance. In the case of John Middleton, he needs income like a hole in the head. He is looking for deductions and losses to offset his income. The same is true about the other limited partners.

While limited partnerships can be structured differently, it is most likely that the general partner, Dave Montgomery receives primarily income and a small equity stake. Since he is a general partner and not an employee of the limited partnership, he does not receive a salary per se. He receives a K-1 distribution. How much he receives is defined by the limited partnership agreement. It is likely a percentage because that is the clearest, most accurate way to define compensation. If that is the case then yes, the more the Phillies make, the more Montgomery makes. It is a built in incentive.

I hope that helps. Remember to always seek the advice of a tax attorney or tax accountant before making any investments. These deals are always structured differently.

I feel that we have two major problems brewing here:
1. Coste has shown consistancy like no other catcher we have had over the past two seasons. This is not a knock on Ruiz as much as it is a nod for Coste. He has been a great presence and should be starting more than he currently does. No, I'm not in love with him, I just think he is currently the best catcher on the roster.
2. Victorino can't stay healthy and the rest of our outfield is slow. We need another speed outfielder. Jenkins was a good pickup offensively, but defensively, he is not much of an improvement over Werth. Lofton isn't much faster (he's lost a couple of steps recently), but he may be interesting! I really think giving up Bourne last year was a mistake.

Also, one last note, don't forget what Gillick said awhile ago... He thinks that he can get this team ready in two or three years. Then the Phils showed him that they were ready then and he got Moyer for help. We need that aggresive Pat back. We need moves made!!!

I think the Phillies are doing a good job and that Pat Gillick should be congratulated. I can't see wasting money on players. You know, we only have so much to spend. I think the Phillies are going to have a great year. We should be fine.

Pay no mind to mnjam. Saturday night is his drinking night and he just goes off sometimes. He seems to have a lot more to say when he has a snootful. Notice how quiet things are today that he is sleeping one off.

I prefer the more civil dialogue I am seeing today. Everyone has an opinion and some people have information we don't necessarily have.

I've read a lot of good points and some things I haven't thought of. I don't agree with everything but the name calling and mud slinging is just ignorant. You can express your point of view without all that trash.

The phillies just signed So Taguchi. Maybe that will satisfy all the complainers. lol

The Phils signing of So Taguchi should permanently silence their critics. This is a significant signing that will immediately positively impact the Phils. So much for the naysayers like jrquixote who think the Phillies are cheap.

Clearly, Dave Montgomery, Pat Gillick, Ruben Amaro, Jr. and company will spend whatever it takes to bring top talent and a championship to Philadelphia. We should all be dancing with joy.

GO PHILLIES!

After watching the Eagles game I checked out this blog. I cannot believe the Phils signed So Taguchi. All those guys who thought we should have signed Cameron are wrong. Look how much money we saved.

We are guaranteed 98 wins with this signing. He soooooo much better than Cameron or anybody else out there. Pinch me. These guys are doing so well on such a limited budget, I just can't believe it.

Taguchi? No way, I'll believe it when I see it. I cannot see the Phillies signing this guy with the financial limitations they have. Who ever is doing this stop teasing us.

Taguchi is so versatile and valuable, that's why I can't believe it. He can play all three outfield positions. I think this is a joke. No way we can pull this off.

I just woke up from my drunk last night. Taguchi? This is what I was talking about. All those naysayers putting down the Phils and their efforts to win us a world championship.

How about that all you negative guys? So much for not spending money. 98 wins in '08.

Thanks Pat, Ruben, Dave and companry. We can't do it without you.

Well, I guess that Montgomery won't be making any money this year. The Phils were just biding their time to make the big signing. All these arguments about the Phillies being cheap.

I guess the next move is the Mets and the Braves to keep us with us. Signing like this don't happen very often.

Who says we need more pitching?

I say we need more pitching -- one more healthy starter, for the 4 or 3 spot.

But, Taguchi plays hard and has a knack for getting clutch hits. Great move.

We're one starter away. If the key guys stay healthy -- Hamels especially -- we're gonna be good.

Adding So Taguchi is better than adding a Number #1 starter. He will make all the difference in the world. Taguchi is the ticket to the World Series. I'm so glad we could buy a championship without spending too much money. We have to watch our resources.

If it's true the Phils signed Taguchi then I think a deal is possible. They can go with the starters they have, though Kendrik scares me more than Eaton. I've got a sinking feeling hitters are gonna figure out a way to beat Kendrik. Worse case is Kendrik and Eaton fail. Kendrik's got guts. If he actually gets better the Phils are set. So much depends on that young kid but at least he's a fighter. What a great time to be a Phillies fan. It's fun. I got news for you guys, the Phils are gonna whup some ass in the NL east. If Kendrik and Eaton work out the Phils will win the east by 8 games. No one else is doing much. I think the Phils have been constantly upgrading little by little and the have such great leadership in the clubhouse. Maybe I'm on a pink cloud but I think the Phils are loaded right now.

Wow, someone went through all the effort of posting under everyone else's screen name to show their witty displeasure of the Taguchi signing. Awesome.

Monty is President and CEO in addition to GP, so it's possible that he gets both a salary and a K-1 distribution. It could be the case that the salary comprises the bulk of his income and that the distribution is small. Or the opposite could be the case. We have no way of knowing.