The Zo Zone

Rowand will be missed, but as other people have said, it's hard to argue giving him 5 years. But, doesn't moving Victorino to center take away his strongest defensive abilty - his arm? He certainly has the range to cover center, but I just feel like his arm is better served in right. It just doesn't seem like he'd be throwing as many people out in center as in right.
Ah, what do I know.

kenny lofton is available.

Please tell me Werth is not being counted on as an everyday RF? I love when a player has a modicum of success over a short period of time and everyone anoints them capable of starting. Have we not learned before that bench players are bench players for a reason. Play them everyday and their weaknesses are exposed. Dobbs and Werth are great bench players, but we need better than platoon players to win the division again. Also who will take down the 7-2 Classic?

$60 mil for 5 yrs. I'm glad the Phils didn't come close to matching that.

How much do you think Rowand would have gotten after he is named in the Mitchell report tomorrow?

All the bet to Aaron, I really did enjoy watching him play and I hope he’s happy in S.F.

As far as Victorino goes, I think he will be awesome in center. I’ve always have been a fan of a gun in center when you can. It has worked great for Andruw Jones all these years. Werth’s arm isn’t bad either. It’s not Vic’s but it’s pretty good.

I wouldn’t kill the idea of Werth playing everyday yet, he’s never got a real chance to play everyday. He was going to be an everyday player in LA until he got hurt, and when he did play everyday for the Phillies he was good.

I’m not saying he is lock either way, but you don’t find out until you try and he is still young enough where a team can give it a shot especially since he missed just about a year and half due to the wrist injuries.

It wasn’t long ago some people didn’t think Utley could hit lefties well enough to be an everyday player.

All the players in the Mitchell Report already know about it. Do you think they would sign Aaron today if he was on it???

But do the teams know yet who is on the Mitchell Report? Or will they also find that out at 2pm tomorrow?

So who is going to protect Utley and Howard? Gillick must be hanging his hopes that Burrell has a career year in his contract year... Otherwise, Howard and Utley will never see a fastball in a key situation.

Stupid, stupid, stupid... I understand that Rowand isn't worth $60M over 5 years, but none of the players are worth what they are making, and as long as there is no salary cap, there really isn't too much in the way of repercusions for overpaying someone (unless you have really cheap, budget conscious owners). And how has this team improved this year? Our 3B is still weak, two of our better bench players are now everyday starters, our 4th and 5th SP still stink, and the middle of our BP sucks. Its really frustrating, the Phils prob have a 3-5 year window to win the NL and possible a WS - why not go all in and see where it takes us? And with the Eagles heading to a rebuilding phase, the Phils could own this city...

Now our offseason can begin. I think the Phils were waiting to see what happens with Rowand. Expect a big deal done within a week. My bet is Hank Blalock is coming.

and the penalty won't be that severe for being on the Mitchell report... it seems like 15 games is the precedent...

Which former Phillies pitcher(s) do you want back as part of the Blalock deal? Padilla, Millwood, or Tejeda?

If I were phillies management, I'd go after Pedro Feliz. Cheaper alternative to Rowand, minus OBP, who we can probably get for about four million less per year and one or two fewer years. Maybe 3 years, $21 million. He can also play left field, first and possibly right field. It can't hurt too much.

oops, didnt know that was mentioned in the Iguchi report

this also means we get a crappy draft pick, because the giants had horrible record last season.

No, anonymous, because the Giants had a horrible record, it means we get a high draft pick in the first round

...in addition to a "sandwich" pick between the first and second round

I agree with B Dub on Werth. I got to watch him a lot out here in LA when he was with the Dodgers and was impressed. I was very happy when I heard the Phils had picked him up, and advised my friends that they would be pleasantly surprised, as they were. I think the Phans will be similarly happy with his play as the everyday RF.

Also, given the apparent 3B availability, I'd be happy seeing Dobbs have a full season as starting 3B. If you check his stats you'll see he had an OPS last year of .781 as a part-timer; that probably projects to over .800 as a regular, a VERY good number. And I think his fielding would improve as an everyday guy too. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing Blalock come in, if he doesn't break the bank talent-wise for the Phils. Money shouldn't be much of a problem there; he gets about $6M for '08 and '09 (which is a club option year).

Nix on Feliz; he's actually a downgrade from Dobbs offensively, and I'm just not convinced his fielding is that much better to justify that everyday switch.

Also, presuming the Phils keep Helms, don't write him off just yet. Sure he had a horrible year, but Helms is one player who has been very unpredictable year-to-year offensively, and has never strung back-to-back bad years together, while he HAS done so for good years. I wouldn't mind seeing him on the bench (though most players do worse as part-timers than they do as starters).

But since the Giants are looking for an on-the-cheap 3B, and since Rowand probably has good things to say about Helms, why not try to swing a deal with the Giants? Not sure the Giants have anything the Phils want, though. Kline? Schierholtz? Lewis? Phils could use oneor the other of them, but would the Giants part with any of them for Helms?

The Phillies need to find a replacement for Aaron
Rowland and I have a great Free agent replacement for
him, Ex-Cubbie Corey Patterson. Patterson, can hit for
power, has great speed and a decent arm in center field. The Phillies can also look to The Los Angeles
Angels of Anaheim and trade for Sarge's son, Gary Matthews, Jr. I think that The Phillie management blew
it with Rowland and should of resign him. I give a
big prop to San Francisco to make a bold move like this. I think the phillies need to add another bat to
their line-up and Geoff Jenkins would add some sock to
it.another available bopper is Ex-Cub and Montreal Expo Cliff Floyd. Anyway, Go Phillies in 2008.!!!!!

Sarge Jr.? That's one of the worst contracts in baseball. Pedro Feliz? My thoughts on him are known already.

Corey Patterson would be a nice addition for a reasonable price. I would be happy with a Dobbs/Helms platoon as long as they get an outfielder. I've been talking about Feliz with the thought of playing Dobbs in RF. I don't have the same faith in Werth playing everyday as others on here. He wore down near the end of last season after starting every day for about a month. To Gillick: Just get me 1 more hitter at either 3b or OF!!

Timing here is suspicious. MLB, performance enhancing list coming out tomorrow. And Rowan, signs with the (1) city, who looks past those scandals today. Hope I'm wrong..He shoudn't be to hard to replace. Outfielders, are out there. 60mil for a career .285 hitter. Who said, life was fair ?

A first round sandwich and SF's second.

All things considered, not the worse thing.

Werth will do a good job as an everyday player, he was finally back into an everyday playing position and performed well. He was a tough out in LA before his injury, this guy is a solid athlete.
Good for Rowand, but the Phils did not blow it by lettin ghim go. They waited to see if he would come down to something theywere willing to pay. Rowand is going to make his money and be overpaid, b/c he will never prodice the same numbers in SF.
Please stop talking baout Dobbs as an everyday 3B, he is a bench player. He does very well at that. The offense will be good once again with Rowand gone and Werth stepping in, eventhough we have a 3B platoon, Helms has benn able to out up good numbers, maybe he comes through, if so then the Offense will be better than last year, without the Phil' shaving wasted money on FA's.

-Sarge Jr is a mediocre career journeyman who had a career year at the right time and got a ridiculous contract.
-As has been said, Feliz is a downgrade from Dobbs offensively and I really think Helms is gonna bounce back this year.
-Corey Patterson is a career .258 hitter with a career OPS of .712, I really don't think he is the solution
-Rowand, while I love him, is a classic candidate for the guy having a career year in his contract year. Short term, as in next season, maybe it would be worth it to sign him. But then 3 years down the line we would be stuck with a bad contract of a player who cannot live up to it anymore.
-Tampa Bay is in the process of signing Cliff Floyd as we speak
-Geoff Jenkins is a possiblity if he takes a paycut from the 7 million he has made the past 5 years. Otherwise its not a good idea to pay that much for another strikeout prone hitter.

I am not sure about SF's 1st round pick. I read somewhere else that it is protected. Not sure what that means though???

Rowand had a career year last year. The Phillies did not share the opinion that this was the start of something big with him or they would have landed him for 5 years. Is Rowand the real deal, or did he just play his heart out because his contract was up at the end of last season?

San Fran is building but they have a long way to go. Rowand really wasn't looking at the big picture of whether or not the Giants will make the post season. They probably will not. The Phillies on the other hand very well make the post season with the addition of one or two pieces to the puzzle and Rowand wanted out. He signed where he made the most money and that is all. No loyalty to any team, just what's best for Aaron at this moment. That's what is wrong with baseball now. Me, me, me....

Victorino has been proving himself for a couple years, give the starting job to him in center and look for a decent right fielder to augment Werth, but make it Werth's job to lose. What the Phillies need is that 17-20 game winner on the pitching staff, that will see them through. Until they get that, it may be a case of a repeat of last year's season in needing a bit of luck get back into the playoff picture.

Today I wish I were not a Phillies fan. But I am too old and too habituated not to following this team. THe Phils are like a stupid cousin, always disappointing, but entertaing nevertheless. Stupid letting Rowand get away. Stupid cutting Iguchi so we could not sign him.
We are going to stink next year... count on it. We were on the verge of being a real contender, now we are right back to being a mediocre ballclub with a plethora a frustrated, frizzed fans, including me. DAMN!!!

The Phillies did just fine with the platoon at 3rd last year and I think they will be fine this year with that same situation. What they need to worry about offensively this coming year is a fourth outfield, preferably one that can play all three outfield positions. Right now, they have only one person who can play center and that is Shane. Roberson is not the answer even as a fifth outfielder. The numbers Rowand put up last year were great but I do not think he would have put up the same numbers next year. Werth concerns me somewhat because down towards the end of the year he started to fade. That is why we need a capable 4th outfield so we can give some rest for our outfields and that player will not be a major liability in the field or with the bat.

They also need to find that other starter because I do not know if Kendrick will have the same type of year he had last year and I worry about the health of Moyer, Eaton and Hamels. The hard thing about finding that pitcher is that can the Phillies bring in a starter and if he does not make the starting rotation will he be happy as a long reliever. Liber and Franklin were not happy in that position and performed horribly out of the pin. Last year Eaton was not happy about the ideal of coming out of the pen. If the Phillies can not find that pitcher I guess they will have Durbin Castro or Haap have that role and I do not like the ideal of having one of those guys as our extra starter.

So PG was offering Mike Lowell a 4-year, $50M deal ... but would not offer Rowand 5 years, $60M??? Lowell is 4 years older than Rowand.
All I want for Christmas is for this washed up, has been of a GM to retire now instead of putting us through one more year of this ineptness before he simply bails out.
With Rowand in this lineup for 5 more years (alongside a signed Rollins, Utley and hopefully soon-to-signed Howard), the possibilities were endless.
I can just see it now .... this organization is going to screw around with Howard and lose him too. Man, sometimes I really hate being a Phillies fan. But it's like driving past a train wreck, I can't stop watching. Please wake me up next July 29 when they're already out of the playoff picture and struggling to draw 10K per night at the Cit.
Pat Burrell could draw 200 walks this year batting in the 5 hole because teams will not fear anyone batting behind him. This team is in the 4th largest media market in this country, yet spends money like it is in the 104th market. Even the stinkin' Brewers are spending money to improve their club. Say what you want about the Red Rox and Yankees ... but I could only dream to someday follow a team that goes after a title.

"I am not sure about SF's 1st round pick. I read somewhere else that it is protected. Not sure what that means though???"

If a team has one of the 15 worst records in baseball they can not lose their first round pick for signing a type A free agent. Therefore, instead of the Phillies getting the Giants first round pick, they receive their second round pick along with a comp. pick between round one and two. (pick #34)

geez, calm down everyone. i know Rowand was gritty, but he's an OK player who had a career year. i know Philly likes blue-collar guys but people in here are sounding like we lost a guy who has made more than one all-star apperance. he's replaceable and the Giants gave him 5 years because they are freaking desperate. look at their lineup. ugh.

as far as draft picks are concerned, because the Giants were in the bottom half of baseball, they don't have to give up their 1st round pick. the Phils get a sandwich pick and a 2nd rounder.

as far as the Phillies being cheap, they're 8th in attendance and 10th in payroll. we'd all like them to spend SOME extra money, but let's not get crazy and start saying things like "even the Brewers are spending money to improve". that's just silly

for years people complained that Burrell was overpaid, so why should the Philies overpay for Rowand?
when we lock up Ryan Howard to a long term contract using the money we didn't give to Rowand, will everyone still complain?

hey vikeman, as much as people complain about some of the phillies moves. they do take care of their young players that came through the system (see rollins, utley, meyers, and unfortunately burrell) so i wouldnt worry about ryan howard, he isnt going to be a free agent until 2011. and who knows how good he will be by then, but i think theyll take care of him soon like they did for utley last year.

and why is everyone acting like the season starts tomorrow? theres still alot of offseason. i guess this is the result of a bad eagles year. it seems everyone is playing the waiting game for starting pitching. i guess theyre waiting for kuroda or anyone to set the bar.

STOP IT! Stop with the "Phillies are cheap" nonsense!! Would you Phillies-bashers please, PLEASE update your talking points from 1997? This team has a payroll of over $100 million. It is among the top ten payrolls in the league. It is far more than many other teams who have made the playoffs the past couple few years. AND, this team DID win the division last year. Money is not the issue. Furthermore, the Rowand situation wasn't about money. The Phils were willing to pay the same (maybe even MORE) annually to Rowand but for just 3 years (possibly 4) - not five. That means their annual payroll would have been exactly what you are asking for, they just wouldn't have had Rowand's contract hanging around their neck in 4 years when he is over-the-hill. The Phillies weren't trying to SAVE MONEY 4 years from now, they were trying to free up that money to be spent on someone who actually will be useful at that point. Ok, that's all. I don't know how many more ways to say this, but I guess you can't reason with people who have the IQ of a rock.

Loosing Roand wil hurt Werth is a lifetime 250 hitter against right handers. He plays plus defense and has astrong arm and plus speed but now we will need another outfielder. I would like to see Madson given a chance in the rotation, he has the ability to win 13-16 games and would be a better bet than Silva or other names out there. Then they should sign Dotel to replace Ryan in the bullpen. 3b is a problem Helms may hit better this year but will cost the team defesively.

We all liked watching Rowand play but he went where the money took him. The Giants will lose 15-20 more games than the Phillies next year and probably for years to come. They're bad.

Stand Pat's offseason hinges on getting a healthy No. 2 or 3 starter. If we get one, and he throws 190-plus, good innings, this team is very good. If we don't, our rotation doesn't match up, even with Myers.

It's that simple.

Our outfield is OK and Dobbs can fill in. 3B isn't strong but every NL team has a weak position somewhere.

It's the pitching we need.

We already tried Madson in the rotation...didn't work out too well.

Third base is really a sticky situation at this point...there's nothing left on the FA market that's a substantial upgrade over what we have.

Why not make a run at Mike Cameron? He can play CF after his suspension is over and Victorino moves back to right...Werth becomes spot starter for Burrell/Victorino and a pinch hitter.

Oh and sign Bartolo Colon to an incentive-heavy deal.

At least I wish this is what they'd do...

I find it interesting that for all of Rowand's much-ballyhooed intangibles and desire to win, he went to a team that has no chance to win anytime in the foreseeable future.

Dobbs and recent acquisition Chris Snelling are good candidates to platoon in left with Werth. Gillick will probably find someone else to throw into the outfield mix before spring training as well.

In other news, Mark Prior and Morgan Ensberg have been non-tendered...

Maybe they gave up on Madson as a starter too soon but I wouldn't bounce him around at this point. I like him in the bullpen. He can go lots of innings with a starter mentality if things really fall apart -- remember that time he went 7 in relief. I'm a Madson fan and I think him coming back healthy is one of the keys to success in the bullpen in 2008. But I'd leave him there at this point.

Can we get the 2003 version of Prior?

It is not surprising that Rowand signed elsewhere. It is insulting that having won the Eastern Division on the last day of the season, the Phillies will enter the 2008 with considerably less talent than last year. There are no more than 17 legitimate major leaguers on the Phillies 40 man roster as of today. Assuming that Ryan Howard will receive $9 million from an arbitrator, the current Phillies payroll is just under $80 million plus the $7 million owed Jim Thome. Do you really think we are going to compete again with this roster? Good luck!

The Phils need to sign two available players to make this off season a success. Geoff Jenkins to platoon in right field with Werth, and Morgan Ensburg to play third base.

Madson as a starter- No, been there done that, he is a good reliever. Rowand went after money and security, I do not blame him for that, if he really wanted to win he could have pushed for a possible 13-14 mill from the Phil's for 3 years. The offense will be just as good as last year. Loss of Rowand will not hurt, if Helms is still here (hopefully not) and does anything offensively we will be good. Dobbs cannot play the OF. Snelling and another will help (Probably youth, Golson maybe). Stop complaining about the money, Phil's payroll will be over $100 mil after arbitration and other signings/trades.
Think about this: Gillick waited to see what Rowand would do, because if he signed with the Phil's then he keeps some offense and defense. If not then he gains more draft picks. More picks allows the Phil's to possibly make trades with current prospects and can still draft to strengthn the farm. Lastly, a lot of players were not offered arbitration: Ensberg, Prior, Towers.
Ensberg may not be a great answer, but he can defnitely do what Helms did with better "D".

Rrrrrrrrring!
Hello, Phillies offices.
Is Dave Montgomery there?
No, I’m sorry, he’s at the tailor shop getting his pockets sewed shut.

Rrrrrrrrrrring!
Hello, Phillies offices.
Is Reuben “Little Ed” Amaro, Jr. there?
No, I’m sorry, he’s gone to Stanford for a refresher course in economics, then he’s going to the orthopedic wards in Mexico to sign an injured player.

Rrrrrrrrrring!
Hello, Phillies offices.
Is Pat Gillick there?
No, I’m sorry, he’s busy spending money wisely on Freddy Garcia, Adam Eaton, Rod Barajas, Flash Gordon, Arthur Rhodes, and Alex Gonzalez.

Rrrrrrrrrrring!
Hello, Phillies offices.
How do you know if the Phillies are crying poor mouth?
I'dont know...how?
If their lips are moving.

It isnt always about the MONEY. Some of us like playing for WINNERS

’I just didn’t think my happiness should be bought just by dollars’ - Mike Lowell on decision to re-sign with the Red Sox.

As usual it's all about the money. Rowand signs with a last place team loaded with aging veterans. The next time I hear a player say it's all about winning I'm gonna vomit.

the big problem here that no one seems to have mentioned, is that victorino CAN'T get on base! he hits 1-2 clutch home runs and everyone forgets the fact that he grounds out to 2nd or short 2 out of 3 at bats. his speed is only a factor offensively if he can get on base to steal. defensively he can do as good a job as rowand, but his bat is something to be concerned about. all in all, not getting a strong 3rd baseman this offseason will be our achilles heel. for the phils to win 90+ games we're gonna need a legit player in that spot and we're really going to need burrell to have a banner year. all that said, let's find a way to land santana.

Seriously, some of you either need to stop whining like little kids or stop watching the team. Even the White Sox didn't want Rowand back at that price. And if you want to look at the "wisdom" of signing players to contracts, ask San Fran how the Barry Zito deal is working out, only 6 more years of mediocrity at $16 mil per left!!! You cry like kids when Garcia doesn't work out, even though he cost money(and the Phils won the wild card)and you cry again when the Phils don't want to spend Bentley money on a Honda player. Guess you are just ahppy being miserable.

Its not about the money, its about length of contract. Rowand isn't worth 5 years. In 3 years everyone would be crying about being stuck with his contract (i.e. Burrell). Stop your whining. The Phillies payroll will be over $100 million this year, so its not about money.

Some great comments from some knowledgable people. I have a feeling it will all work out before Feb. I'd like to blame last year's pitching fiasco on the trainer. Come on, that was way too many pitchers going down to injury.
There is no such thing as "luck", good or bad.

There are outfielders out there, I think its a safe bet Pat will bring one in, he's got to know he can't sell this Phillies team as it is now to the public. Does anyone think he's not going to make anymore moves before Feb? Pat has a great track record with his previous teams. It wasn't just luck. The Phils won the division last year for the first time since 93 even with all the injuries. Pat is also retiring after this year. Do you think he wants to be remembered as failing on his last job?

Good luck to Rowand; seems like a really nice guy, he wasn't holding a gun to anybody's head. The Phillies did the right thing.

Now as to Madson - go back and look at his stats. Please. Really. He had a great first year, and has been riding that reputation ever since (with the exception of the 2-3 months he was healthy this past year after his awful start). Total headcase. Amazing how many lives he's got.

Any chance the Phils make a deal for Brandon Inge? Cabrera is going to play 3B in Detroit.

I don't know if Inge is the answer, especially based on what his salary is vs. what he delivers. There are probably better options out there.

Madson has gotten a lot of chances, but when he's healthy (the big caveat), he's usually reliable. I don't like him in the rotation. I think he's a 7th/8th inning guy.

Thanks Aaron for 2 exciting years, one phan-ominal play and many above average plays.

I think Mr. Burrell's OBP will miss you the most. My bet is his BB will drop dramatically and he may get a few more pitches to hit. It just seemed to me towards the end of the season, you got a lot of opportunities to drive in runs because of PTB's walks. Why was that??

Best of luck hitting in that SF line-up. I am sure $60 mil will ease some of the pain

Non –tenures to keep your eyes on Phillies Faithful

Josh Towers – They had intrest in him before the traded for Loshe, maybe they give him a look.

Mark Prior – Low risk high reward. Probably is only worth it on a two year deal, but is only 27

Akinori Otsuka – Could help out the bull pen, 36 and coming off surgery.

Morgan Ensberg – 33 and could fill the void at 3rd if there is something left in the tank.

You people say its not about the money, but it is... otherwise, why would it matter what we were paying Rowand in year 4 or 5 if there weren't salart constrants in those years to worry about? And if Rowand had 3 or 4 other teams willing to give him a 5 year offer, then that is what his market value is... everything we buy is overpriced.. my car, my house, cable, etc... but we pay the price because the cheaper alternatives are not acceptable or desirable... same with sports. But the Phils owners know that this team will be competitive because of Utley, Howard and Rollings, and they will draw $3M fans, and whether or not they make the playoffs and win a WS is completely irrelevant to them.

Additionally, to those who say it wasn't about the money but the number of years - then why not sign A Jones who only received a 2 year deal?

Also - when your farm system sucks - you need to compensate and spend in the free agent market. The fans weren't asking them to sign the most expensive player on the market... we wanted the team to keep a player on the current team who seemed to fit in quite well with our nucleus.

theres no possinle way the phillies can find a pitcher that is going to make a difference at the fouth or fifth spot. we go through this every year. getting, Millwood, Milton, Garcia, Andy "kiss my asshby", omar daal,adam "not eaton up innings" all these names that sound good turn out to be crap and look where they are now...we do better getting pitchers in mid-season (Moyer, Loshe) and calling up pitchers from the minors (Myers, Hamels, Madson, Kendrick)all this focusing on pitching is just gonna bring in some other loser who's gonna suck and all of us fans are gonna turn arond and say why didn't we sign Rowand, upgrade Third base, or even re-sign abraham nunez for that matter. The phillies are setting themselves up for a long season of criticizem.

Dan, if Rowand had other teams offering him the same deal, he should have took it. He just signed with the worst offensive team in the league, one that just lost its best player and finished 71-91. I doubt he had similair offers from other teams.

It is about money in the fact that the Phillies have a budget and like 90% of the other teams in the league can't afford to overpay a guy coming off a career year. Pat Burrell's career numbers are way better than Rowand's yet fans whine about him being overpaid and untradeable.

The same fans screaming about the Phils not signing him would have been crying when in 3 years he's hitting .270 with 15 HRs and no one will trade for him.

I'm sorry to read that Aaron Rowand is leaving the Phillies. Not surprised, but sorry. I will miss him. I think the Phillies will miss him even more. Their Outfield lineup is a lot less impressive without him. I wish him well.

Bad decision for Rowand.Giants are going nowhere, and he will thus wind being the youngster proppoing up the assisted-living crowd on the field in SF. Psychologically, this may kill his game.$60 mill for 5 yrs with the loser-Giants may be great in terms of $$$, but why is, say, $20-30 mill for 3-4 with the winning Phils such a bad deal? How much $$$ does a person need? Really?

Fence-Face will be missed, but 5 years $60 mil. is too much in my opinion. I doubt he ever matches his '07 again, and lets remember he wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire previous to last season. Career year on a contract year mixed with a ridiculous free agent market equals cold hard cash.

Phil - I don't think their OF lineup will be much worse off. Remember, he had a career year. Overall, he is a .280 hitter, averaging closer to 10 HR's a season than 20. Do you know who that sounds very similar to? Shane Victorino - who is better defensively. The main thing you got with Rowand was leadership - which they have. I think he was a very important part of getting this team past the Abreu/Lieberthal mentality and moving it into the Utley/Rollins/Howard era - but they learned how to win this past season, so that aspect of his game isn't as important as it was over the last 2 seasons.

Hope he enjoys his time with a losing team...

Now the Phillies can focus on paying their arbitration players like howard. As for getting more pitching, the Phillies are pretty much in the same boat as every other team - overpay a just ok or mediocre player or get a injury risked player.

If Phillies management is unwilling (I won't say incapable because that isn't the case) to compete with Major League clubs for Major League talent, maybe they should just follow the lead of bottom feeders the Orioles, Marlins, Athletics, etc., and become one of those Sub-Major teams, intermediates between Triple-A and the Majors, who trade off their best talent for prospects. I'm sure Hamels, Myers, Victorino, Rollins, Howard and Utley could bring a bonanza of young players who could excel here for a couple of years until they're ready to be shipped off to the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Giants, etc. At least this way they wouldn't have to tell any more lies to their fan base about hoiw competitive they are.

so do you think they will take a flyer on prior? i'm sure other teams are thinking the same thing but if the price is right i say why not.

MichaelZ - that's ridiculous. They ARE competing with the big clubs - they have a $100 million + payroll!!!!!!! I don't understand what you people expect them to do??? This is crazy!! They have one of, if not the best young nucleus of talent in the league. They are trying to build around it so they can be one of the top teams for years to come - and win now.

Reality: Rowand is the only piece of offense they lost. Third is the same right now unless you're going to tell me we'll miss Abe's bat (if so we can sign him). The gap Rowand leaves can be filled either by upgrading 3B or adding to the outfield. If Rollins, Howard, and Utley stay healthy all year, that's a bonus.

On the pitching side, Myers and Hamels as the 1/2 and Lidge in the bullpen should already have us upgraded at least a bit. If Romero comes through and Madson helps, that's a bonus. Any upgrade over Eaton (even Eaton pitching better) is at least a small upgrade. Kendrick's season being a fluke or Moyer showing his age could offset the small upgrade. Adding the right pitcher should buffer against that possibility. I think one right pitching move makes all the difference in the world.

I don't see where they've fallen way off what they had last year, particularly since deals will still be made.

You're right s, atleast one deal will still be made. Either a pitcher, CF or 3B.

I don't think Rowand is worth $60M - but he got it... and the Giants are a bad team - but they have always been willing to spend money to try and upgrade. I don't know why Rowand chose the Giants over the other teams... but the fact of the matter is the Phils are a weaker team today then at the end of the season. Who is coming off the bench for this team? We have no depth - an OF full on injury prone players - and still a suspect back end of the rotation. Not to mention our AAA team is void of any serviceable call ups.

The real frustrating thing here is the fact that we have an opportunity to be a dominant team in the NL for the next 3-5 years. All we need to do was keep the nucleus in tact, and add a few missing pieces. Now we have just added one more missing piece to the picture.

And back to the Rowand thing - the Phils prob could have signed him last year to a 4 or 5 year deal in the $40M range - so they have nobody to blame for this but themselves.

While I would have liked to see the Phils resign Rowand, he wasn't worth a five year contract. I don't have a problem with the average per year though.

The real problem is going to be replacing Rowand's output at the plate from the right side. Every team is going to be trying to trot every lefty they have against the Phils now. And who can blame them? The only RH power bat the Phils have is Burrell, and who knows which Burrell will show up this season. If the Phils can go out and get a RH bat at either 3B or OF, I'd be ok with what the Phils have going into the season, even if they don't overpay to get a starter.

PS: Carlos Carrasco will probably end up in Philly sometime mid-summer, especially if the pitching falters again.

While I would have liked to see the Phils resign Rowand, he wasn't worth a five year contract. I don't have a problem with the average per year though.

The real problem is going to be replacing Rowand's output at the plate from the right side. Every team is going to be trying to trot every lefty they have against the Phils now. And who can blame them? The only RH power bat the Phils have is Burrell, and who knows which Burrell will show up this season. If the Phils can go out and get a RH bat at either 3B or OF, I'd be ok with what the Phils have going into the season, even if they don't overpay to get a starter.

PS: Carlos Carrasco will probably end up in Philly sometime mid-summer, especially if the pitching falters again.

The Bay Area can be a very appealing place to live, so I can't fault Rowand for that. However if the Phils offered him something like 3yrs/40 million ... well, call me hopelessly naive but I do wonder whether the extra 20 MILLION DOLLARS, will leave the Rowand family that much more financially secure??
He did succeed though, in putting a healthy distance between himself and a playoff appearance.

Why Not Sign Rowand? What are we going to do with the money we have left? All the Starting Pitchers who DONT give up long balls are gone. While Gillick sat on his behind, all the relief pitchers were signed. Please don't tell me that Troy Percival wanted to sign with a losing team (Tampa Bay) as opposed to a team that just made the playoffs. Cordero signed with the horrible Reds. Riske signed w/ the Brewers. Come On Gillick! At first it seemed like the Lidge trade was pretty logical. Now I realize that had we not traded Bourn and Costanzo, we could be in the trade talks with Dan Haren or Erik Bedard. Now we have the money that was supposed to go to pitching and there are no pitchers that could pitch even decently in CBP. The only way to get a pitcher is through a trade now. It seems like the caliber of Starting Pitchers we can trade for are Anthony Reyes (who was horrible w/ St. Louis. We kicked his butt the 2 times we faced him). Also, I'm expecting to read about a Phillie in the Mitchell Report. There are apparently so many active players listed. Imagine what this would do to Free Agent not yet signed. And Oh! What about signing Mike Lamb to play 3B. Haven't heard any buzz about him. He could have a monstrous full year hitting in Philly. A 286-average kind of guy. Pedro Feliz is the equivilant if not worse than Burrell. Dont look at his # of homers. Look at the horrible 0BP, AVG, and Ks. And lets trade Helms. He is horrible. He may be on that Mitchell Report.

Wow Mitchell report reveals big names... Abe Nunez only Phil from last year to be named in the report. However... Pujols, Clemens, Pettite, Varitek, Garciaparra, Prior, Wood, Damon, Pudge Rod, Tejada, Gagne all big names to be outed in an hour.

Only Ed Wade would trade five prospects for a guy on the steroid list one day before it is released, then call one of the five prospect's father by mistake to notify him of the deal.

I have all the faith in the world that Roy Oswalt will be starting for us by the deadline.

Now we know where Abe got all his power.

"Burrell's career numbers are way better than Rowand's yet fans complain about him being overpaid and untradeable"

Exactly right. thank you. have fun

"Burrell's career numbers are way better than Rowand's yet fans complain about him being overpaid and untradeable"

Exactly right. thank you. have fun

have fun in San Fran. good luck trying to hit 15 homers in that ballpark.

Yeah, I hope Abe kept his receipt, he got ripped off.

Dykstra, Bell, Franklin other former Phils named.

I note that Tony G. mentioned Mark Prior as a low risk choice to sign. I've gotten to watch Prior over the years in Iowa as he seems to be back here in AAA for rehab more than he is with the Cubs in Chitown. Check out the Chicago Tribune article by Paul Sullivan about his being cut by the Cubs. The chart accompanying shows that his best years were 2003 when he went 18-6 and 2005 when he went 11-7. The rest of the years he had less than 6 wins or was barely pitching because of one injury or another. I'd only sign him if they could pay him by the hour for the time he is actually on the mound.

I hate to kick a guy when he's down, but Ed Wade trading 5 players for a guy who was always under suspicion of drug use, the day before the Mitchell report, is hilarious.

because of the lack of right-handed hitters, the linup may have to have victorino leading off with utley batting second, burrell third, howard clean-up, and rollins drops to 5th to protect howard. no one else is a threat.

I know it's hard to believe, but I searched the entire Mitchell Report and can't find any mention of Nunez. Dykstra seems to have his own chapter. Big surprise there. Pratt, Bell, Franklin, and Grimsley are the ex-Phillies ... maybe one or two more, but all former Phils -- no one current that I found.