The Zo Zone

Thanks for the interview Todd, we loved picking your brain.

If this means a Dobbs/Feliz platoon, I like the deal.
With the three other infielders the Phils have, you can suffer through a weaker hitter at 3B. Few other teams have the same pop coming from SS and 2B.

Now Gillick can go back to lighting candles, drinking holy water, tossing salt over his shoulder and whatever else he's doing to keep the Mets from getting Santana.

There's no doubt the defensive upgrade will pay dividends for not only pitchers, but the team overall (how frustrating is it to think an inning is over, but then an error extends the inning and the fielders have to remain on the field for at least one more batter?) But I've been reading some of the posts made on sfgate.com regarding the Feliz signing, and most bemoan the fact that his plate discipline and situational hitting techniques leave something to be desired. That being said, I hope the big X-factor here is Charlie Manuel: generally acknowledged as a good hitting instructor, hopefully he can work his magic with Feliz. I understand that an "average" Feliz offensive year is still an upgrade over the platoon of last season, but hopefully Charlie can get a better-than-average year from him.

certainly one of the better moves the phils made this off-season. it not only adds a defensive/offensive 3rd basemen to our lineup, but it also adds a much needed right handed bat to our lineup too. it's always nice to solve a lot of problems with just one person being signed...i put this right up there with the signing of brad lidge

25 homeruns(at least) from 1b 2b ss and 3rd would be sweeeeet!!!!

i like all the moves gillick has made so far,he has addressed the 3b situation,the bullpen and starting pitching,with the moving of myers to the rotation.all at a total cost of.bourne,constanzo and geary......sign lohse

Billy Wagner quote - "I think the Phillies are probably the top team, I think the Braves are second and I think we’re probably somewhere like third. We have to play the season. But, that’s just basing it off how we played last year. But, this should be a motivating year. We really have to step up and quit talking about doing some things and just do it.”

However, if they get Santana, of course, they are definitely the top team. My bet is that he goes to the Red Sox.

A previous post by Truth that needs to be reposted in reference to continual Liebython.

It's not that the Phillies had one individual that they disliked; we remember all the years the team was mismanaged. It may be simply that players like Leiby symbolize the "we are a small market team" era. Remember the 10-15 yrs of "we're a small market team". Funny how that started after mgmt realized that they were fortunate and lucky in '93; that they would never again get a team that wanted to win so badly, so cheaply, so late in their careers. Mgmt realized it was highly unlikely to happen again. So they went with personities that symbolized the era. Gruff looking, so called macho guy's that couldn't play a lick. Lieby was at the forefront. Burrell is a perfect example. Guy's like Wolf and Bell etc fit the bill as well.
In my opinion it's not so much Leiby per say but the mgmt's direction during this period. Their attempt to pull the wool over our eyes with a symbolism of an era(one team actually) instead of starting anew, finding and paying talent. It's no wonder Rolen wanted out; he didn't fit the bill, he was clean cut/shaven, he played hard he didn't drink or womanize. Instead of the Phillies showing class and building a team around a class act like him they stayed with the losers and sent him packing for player's they thought would fit in and accept losing b/c "were a small market team". You the fans have forgotten these shenanagans, I as a true fan have not! It's really ashame and is very insightful to the fact that the Phillies fans have been so brainwashed that there are calls for a "Leiby" night at the stadium. Think about what he symbolized for this city, this mgmt and this team.
The most disheartening point for me in all this is that while the Phillies are clearly INEPT they have taken the hearts and souls of their fans to the abyss along with them.
It's so sad that fans care more about an organization that sold them "were a small market team" for years, than R. Howard being pissed,non-productive and underpaid. This small market team resided in a city that happens to be the fifth largest city in the country with rabid supportive sports fans that they didn't care about.

I'm actually starting to wonder if it's the Phillies ownership group that was smart enough to take advantage of this mentality in it's fans.
Now that actually may be Capitalism at its finest. Classless but Capitalisitic, and this is a Capitalistic society and in Capitalism FOOLS(FANS) and their money seperate rather quickly....

Once again Bill Conlin point on!
"It's amazing how much older R. Howard gets as he gets close to the big money" B. Conlin
"Tough as raw hide C. Utley played in fewer games over the last two seasons" B. Conlin

The Phillies are a classless and inept organization

To me the key is not his offense primarily but his defense especially for Kendrick and Moyer. It should mean an extra W or two for them and save the pen. Now Burrell will not have to play the line in left chasing frantically after ground ball outs that turn into doubles that got by Helms and Dobbs last year. No doubt with RFK gone and the Bank's dimensions so inviting in the NL East, Feliz has a shot at a 30 homer, 100 rbi season. Nice!

Signing Feliz is a good move, if he maintains his power. I think Charley, Milt and Davy will instill at least some plate discipline. I like him in the bottom third.

Now the Phils can put Helms out there as trade bait and hopefully pick up a AAA/AA pitcher. He would be a productive DH in the AL.

I don't understand people who don't like this signing...

Truth: it was inane the first time, didn't get any better on second try. The Leibython ended yesterday.
Look forward to skipping past it again tomorrow. LOL

I'm ok with teh signing, especially if he's as good with the glove as people say. The left side of the infield won't yield too many cheap hits. He'll probably bat 7th, so he won't be expected to carry the team.

Truth, if the Phils are classeless and inept, what does that make you, the person obsessed with posting the same opinions about them?

Tell some people around you that Ryan Howard is underpaid, see what they say. They gave rollins and Utley their money, Ryan will get his if his demands don't get too insane.

Truth,

I suspected you were really Bill Conlin in disguise. The fact that you seem to respect his opinions now confirms the fact...

On another note, I always liked Lieberthal. Seemed like a positive, stand-up guy and he gave us some pretty good seasons here. He's about as close to a lifetime Philly as we've seen since Schmidt left. Best of luck, Lieby!

Does this move guarantee that Todd will no longer receive e-mails asking that Pat Burrell be moved to third?

I hope so, Anonymous. I sure hope so.

who in their right mind would suggest burrell be moved to third....Thats like making adam eaton the closer and Jamie Moyer the setup man

Looking at Feliz's numbers in the bigger parks of the west, it is safe to assume he could put up 30 HR's and 100 RBI's playing half of his games at CBP.

Isn't that what we are paying Pat Burrell $15 million to put up?

Rowand is getting $12 million and won't come close to those numbers this year.

We're paying this guy $4 million?

And he is a defensive upgrade?

How can this not be looked upon as a great move for the fightin's.

As a Phillies fan who happens to live in San Francisco and sees a reasonable amount of Giants games, I'm not 100% sold on this move by the Phillies. I'll give you that the price tag is reasonable, especially in this market.

He had quite a lackluster 2007, albeit not in a great line-up, and he's never struck me as a great clutch performer. Also, he's a bit on the laid-back side of things, and we all know how well that can go over in Philadelphia.

Defensively, he's solid, but not knock your socks off. But he won't lose you any games with his defense, if that's our standard.

And, then I suppose there's the argument that he's better than any other obvious alternative. I just don't think he wins many games for us.

Keep up the good work Todd - you're the best source of off-season news for us "expats."

I like the Pedro move. I also think that we should keep Dobbs as a lefty OF replacement and or pinch hitter. Helms should go to the Fins or to an AL team for a minor league pitching prospect. Hopefully a lefty. As to getting Johan, please. The Phils do not have the guys to do it without gutting the entire minor league system.

I am not sure what water all of you are drinking, but this is a bad signing by the Phillies. First and foremost, the statistic of RBI is practically meaningless. RBI gives no indication to the skill of an individual, so saying that Feliz will drive home 100 is pointless. Next, I am sure his HR's will increase with a move to CBP, maybe reaching a very good 25. Other than that, he has no speed, and most importantly, no plate discipline. A career OBP of .288 is atrocious. This OBP will easily cancel out any of the benefits the Phillies might receive from his HR production. In fact, when looking at the complete offensive package, Feliz is one of the worst, if not the worst, offensive third baseman in the league. Defensively, he is quite the opposite, placing in the top three of every major defensive metric in baseball right now. So, a downgrade offensively, an upgrade defensively, and this signing for two years and 8.5 million seems pointless at best.

Truth -

Conlin (and Eskin) don't like the Phils because they don't put out a nice enough buffet for the reporters.

That being said - Howard will get his money. Its unfortunate how the system works in baseball, but the Phillies didn't invent it - the players union did. For every under-valued or under-paid player in the league, there is at least 2 or 3 Adam Eatons in the league.

For the record, I also consider Jimmy Rollins underpaid and I wish the Phils would renegotiate his deal now... but this isn't the NFL and we all know it will never happen.

Thanks for the insights from our friends out west. But even if Feliz isn't the world's greatest situational hitter, and even if he's a bit laid-back, he's a run-producer and a complete upgrade over Helms/Dobbs.

I like Dobbs for 150 at-bats pinch-hitting and the occasional spot start. That's all they signed him for last year, and he provides a nice lefty bat off the bench. I like Helms with the Marlins or in the AL ... nice guy but can't play.

Just because he's going from a pitchers park in San Fran to a hitter's park in Philly doesn't mean his #'s will improve...but I hope they do. Just as long as Feliz bats 7th or 8th and doesn't kill rally after rally, I guess I can live with this deal. But people need to see through the 20 homeruns, because other than that his stats are pretty empty every season.

I understand how his offensive stats seem to be the meat of discussion and is what people look at b/c its attractive. But maybe the major reason the phils signed him was because of his DEFENSE. Whatever his does offensively will be a pluse.

I've been reading all the negative posts and whatnot and it seems everyone seems to agree that its his defense is a plus to our team.

Nunez couldnt hit a lick but was a good fielder and (some) people still wanted him.

I sure hope the Phillies signed him for his defense and not his offense. But, 8.5 million over two years is a large sum of money for some nice defense and a sinkhole offensively...

Nunez would have signed for 750k. If they wanted defense why not keep him. It would have led to greater continuity. This Feliz guy by all accounts is California laid back, he will not fit in here. Nunez went nuts when the Phils clinched last year, he was a team guy never complained about his role. The extra 3 million could have been used toward Rowand. With Rowand the dead wood in the 7/8/9 hole(Ruiz/Third/Pitcher) would not look so bad.
Look at it realisticly, assuming "Burrell" has his usual bad 3 mos, Victorino bats .268 with no pop(yes he steals 40 bases) and Werth who is an unproven/streaky commodity. I know it's hard to tell but I'm a fan just have a gripe with the teams mgmt. Now that I really think about it I'm worried. 100 mil should get you more than 3 solid bats. The Rockies had a line-up full for 34 mil.
GillAmaro need help...

I see what you are saying but nunez wasnt an everyday player and was only put in when moyer was pitching and the 9th inning. At least with Feliz you get good fielding and when he's up to bat, there's a chance he hit one out of the park. With Nunez, you get good fielding and you know he cant hit one out of the park. Hell there were times where he couldnt ever bunt! And I cant comment on his work ethic b/c I havent seen it.

Extra 3 mil for Rowand? I think he wanted a little more than that.

Ok, what would your off season moves/signings have been?

"This Feliz guy by all accounts is California laid back"....your reference?

"Nunez went nuts when the Phils clinched last year"....if we start a cheerleading squad, let's sign him up, he can't hit

"The extra 3 million could have been used toward Rowand"....that pays for one year

"100 mil should get you more than 3 solid bats"....seem to remember the Phil's led the league in runs

"I know it's hard to tell but I'm a fan"...ain't that the Truth.

Here is where the signing helps us win an extra 3-5 games...without having to yo-yo the trifecta at third (Helms-Dobbs-Nunez), and running out of position players in the late/extra innings, Charlie now has a starter who does not need to come out for a defensive replacement, which is equivalent to giving him an extra move.

And we all know Charlie needs as many moves as he cab get...it is no coincidence the Phils have been great is September the last two years with a 40-man roster at his disposal. Even "still can't double switch" Charlie has a hard time running out of moves in September.

Well it looks like the Muts got Santana. It's like a bad dream. ESPN and USA Today were reporting it. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

JUST GREAT!!!! Santana faceing Howard and Utley all year!! This really sucks for the Phils!!

If you can't infer evil one-I would have resigned Rowand for starters.
I'm okay with the Lidge aquisition-it kills two birds with one stone.
I would have paid Iguchi enough to keep him, and kept Nunez at 750k.
No need for Brumlett or whatever his name is. No need for Jenkins.

Oh-I almost forget I would have signed a 3 yr deal with Howard for $36,000,000, as Bill Conlin suggests.

The Mets are a team that year after year are willing to do what it takes....They spend the money that the Phillies refuse to. They take the risks.
Thats why last year is '93 again. A fluke. Good thing Brett Myers made a fool of himself and the rest of the classless team got wasted with the fans when they had the chance.

Pathetic.

The only the Phils won 90gms is b/c the Mets collapsed. Welcome to 85-88gms again.

WHEN YOUR SOBBING IN OCTOBER AND LOOKING FORWARD TO NEXT SEASON IN AUGUST REMEMBER

"IT'S GOOD BUSINESS TO BE CHEAP"
-Zo's board consenus

How many WS titles do the Muts have to show for their "willing to do what it takes..." year after year?? Give me a break.. Part of the Muts collapse last year was 2 sweeps by the Phillies. There were two parts to that equation, the Muts losing and the Phillies winning.

The addition of Santana will help them of course, but they have other issues. Lets see if they can get the apple out of their throat from last season's choke.

And how would you have the team celebrate after winning the division? Pretend like its no big deal?

I like the deal for Feliz. At least my ass won't pucker every time someone hits a slow roller to 3rd. What an adventure that was last year. Feliz will hurt a lot of teams especially at home. Pitchers have to fight their way thru a batting order that has some pop up and down the line-up (Ruiz isn't a big homer guy). The Phillies are very dangerous and can throw some leather at you. Howard (he can't throw) and Burrell are kinda butchers but the rest of the team is pretty strong defensively. Victorino is a defensive upgrade.
Santana is a real problem. What money won't buy. The Muts are thin in the starting rotation. Hope nobody gets hurt. They stripped the farm system for Santana. They're saying they have to sign him for 7 years to keep him. Can you imagine how much that's gonna cost.
Now remember any nit-wit can sign the big free agent or strip their farm system for a player (remember Von Hayes). It's the guys who aren't stars who really help day in and day out. It's the guys who come in when guys are hurt or struggling who mean more than most people think. For example, who plays 1st for the Muts if Delgado struggles again or finally breaks down. Who's their 2nd baseman. Is Ryan Church better then Jenkins/Werth. Is Moises Alou done and if not when will he break down because he breaks down every year. The big thing about the Muts is that they are old and getting Santana can't help that. They're starting to look like Ed Wade is running their show. Ed Wade with a wad of money.

The Mets will give up 4 prospects, 3 of them pitchers. I don't know that the Phils could afford that even if they wanted to do it.

Feliz adds defense with the possibility of some hits, whereas Nunez only offered defense. And Feliz, by all accounts, is better defensively than Nunez. It also frees Dobbs up to be the bench player he should be. Overall, the Phils have improved their bench in the offseason in my opinion.

Let's hope they're still looking for pitching help now that the positional players are pretty much locked.

johnny p, the muts signed castillo to a 3 or 4 year deal to play 2nd. Although castillo fits the muts mold well, pretty good player, but how long will he last. he had knee problems last year after they aquired him.

Ok Truth, I swore I told you that you aren't aloud to post anymore...
...you said "The only the Phils won 90gms is b/c the Mets collapsed. Welcome to 85-88gms again."
The problem with that statement is that they only won 89 games last year. Are you really even a fan? There's a few good sites out there to check your stats and team records. You can start with espn.go.com then you can try sportsline.com or maybe foxsports.com heck even mlb.com would work for you. You are what gives Philly fans a bad name. Do you do this for the Eagles, Sixers and Flyers too?

Truth's just a depressing person all around, complaining all day about a team he doesnt even like. Not a fun existence. Plus, its hard to call it a collapse over a 162 game season. If so, then the Phils collapsed in April.

Santana is just another in the long line of their supposed saviors (Glavine, Pedro, Wagner, Delgado, Beltran). I've heard the hype about them for 5 years now, same with the Yankees and how they were going to dominate the 21st century after adding A-Rod, Randy Johnson, Abreu, Kevin Brown, Giambi, Javy Vazquez, Mussina, Damon, etc.

I'm Truth, I call the whole team classless for celebrating, but then want them to resign Rowand and give Howard a huge raise, two players who led the celebration. Logic isn't my strong suit.

Further proof is my utter lack of knowledge, the phils won 89 games, not 90, Bruntlett was part of the Lidge trade not a FA signing, Iguchi wanted to play second base, not third.

Compare the last 3 or 4 years of statistic for Rowand and Feliz, and I think you'll be surprised. Feliz not only holds his own in the offensive categories (i.e.strikes out less), but costs less and plays much better defense.

anyone who thinks theses formulas are wrong is retarded ,,,,,

feliz > helms & dobbs combined (esp. helms alone)
santana (by 10000000000x)> feliz

and in effect even though we upgraded at 3rd it kills me to say this with santana addition the feliz signing means zilch....

mets (with santana)> phillies
and that sucks to admit from a 21 year phils fan

anyone who thinks theses formulas are wrong is retarded ,,,,,

feliz > helms & dobbs combined (esp. helms alone)
santana (by 10000000000x)> feliz

and in effect even though we upgraded at 3rd it kills me to say this with santana addition the feliz signing means zilch....

mets (with santana)> phillies
and that sucks to admit from a 21 year phils fan

anyone who thinks bill conlins most recent article is even 1% accurate or readable or accurate as to his point..kill yourself

albert pujols > ryan howard.....by alot..again from a 21 year phillies fan not wearing his homer glasses....pujols fields much much better is much faster also is a .330 career hitter and is still actully younger then howard and strikes out about 1/2 as much ..the fact howard thinks he deserves more money then pujols got in arbitration is absurd when pujols is far and away the better all round player and not a fat stoned gloved strike out machine who clogs the bases and is rude to fans (speaking from personal experiance meeting mr howard 3 times...hes an asshole..most athletes are,but hes worse then most and that says something)

I loved your interview with We Should Be GMs! It justified my love of Randy Wolf and wanting him back in Philly (though apparently his love of this great city isn't recipricated).