The Zo Zone

Really, it is sort of sad to see the Phils and Howard continue to see things totally different. I think that Ryan (and his agent) understand that he is not a 24 yr-old and has fewer seasons remaining in which he can make the ridiculous salaries offered to the biggest stars. At the same time, they have to realize he will only be starting his third full season as a major league player and that 7 million is a great offer for his amount of service time...even considering his production. In the end, I hope Ryan doesn't fall too in love with himself and ultimately create a bad situation. Maybe split it down the middle and move on to winning a world title!

I am so tired of Philadelphia being cheap, the reason we can't win is because we short change our best players then they shop around and other teams pick them up and double the amount we pay them.
And of course there's the fact that he's a Black Ball Player in Philly and that's even worst. The odds were against him when he got here and there was what 1 other at most 3 other Black Ball Players on the Phillies roster
Pay the man the moey before he goes somewhere else and get really paid.
How much is A=Rod making !!!LOL we would never even get close to giving the MVP and home run leader that. Go Figure

Keep Ryan Happy! End of story.

He is the present and future of the franchise.

sam..was there a need for the race card to be brought up? last time i checked wasn't jimmy rollins also a black ball player? isnt he adored by the fans? and i even think he signed a massive contract recently by the same club that you are trying to use the race card against..keep your mind and comments focused on strictly baseball and you will make some better ideas appear on the page.

Both sides can make valid arguments, but the race thing should never enter the conversation. At Howard's age, time is against him making the big bucks. He has to "get his" while he can. We all saw Thome "drop off the board" when he was injured (which allowed a late-blooming Howard to get his shot).Weight may also be an issue, along with mediocre defense. I expected the Phils to come in at 7-8 mil and Howard's camp wanting 11-12 mil. I'm surprised they're as close as they are. Leave A-Rod and his contract out of the equasion, that's apples vs. oranges. Who else but the Yanks were going to sign him? Don't try to convince me that Boston was. There's enough greed, oops, I mean green to get this done

It's time to put the "the Phillies are cheap" argument out to pasture and let it graze along with the "Philly fans booed Santa Claus" line that we hear from announcers who obviously didn't do their homework preparing for a game.

The Phillies of the 1990's were cheap. They wouldn't spend money and the results were evident on the field, where we were fed a continuous diet of Matt Beech, Tom Marsh and Jerry Spradlin.

The Philliesof the last few years? They signed Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley, Brett Myers, Bobby Abreu and Pat Burrell to long term deals. Hell, they even paid big $$ for Adam Eaton and Jon Lieber. They may be stupid sometimes, but they're not cheap.

The fact is that the offer to Ryan Howard is huge for a player with two plus years of service. He deserves big $$, but $10 million a year, or more? Come back in 2010 for that.

Here's one other thing to consider: how much do we want to pay a person who may be the 4th most important player on our club (behind Rollins, Utley and Hamels)? I'd give him 5 years and $55 million today; I don't know if he would take it.

The Philadelphia Phillies are cheap. They have been notoriously cheap for generations and nothing has changed. The lineage of this organization is the same during the Carpenter era including Giles, Montgomery, Clothier, Shenk, and quite a few others.

Here is a snippet from March 1981 folks. (I'm sure most of you were not born then).

PHILLIES' OWNER SEEKING TO SELL
E-MAIL Permissions Save AP (NYT); Sports Desk

March 7, 1981, Saturday

Late City Final Edition, Section 1, Page 19, Column 5, 797 words

The world champion Philadelphia Phillies were offered for sale today by Ruly Carpenter, who said he was fed up with escalating player salaries and the baseball owners' willingness to pay them. The announcement came in a statement that Carpenter read in the locker room here to his stunned players, ...

Ruly Carpenter walked into the spring training locker room before the season started and laid this on his guys. This is exactly the same mentality that exists with the Phillies today. The top financial guys that Ruly Carpenter had were Bill Giles, Dave Montgomery, and Jerry Clothier...the same guys with their hand on the reins today.

So enough little children that the Phillies are not cheap. Those of us who have been around long enough know better...much better.

JoseC does not go far enough in his historical analysis of the Phillies. Ruly Carpenter drew quite a bit of attention as follow:

PHILLIES' OWNER SEEKING TO SELL
AP
The world champion Philadelphia Phillies were offered for sale today by Ruly Carpenter, who said he was fed up with escalating player salaries and the baseball owners' willingness to pay them. The announcement came in a statement that Carpenter read in the locker room here to his stunned players, who had just trooped off the practice field after a workout. ''It was one of the most difficult decisions the family ever had to make,'' said Carpenter, whose father bought the team 38 years ago. ''The...
March 7, 1981

Carpenter's Motive: Prod Other Owners
By JOSEPH DURSO, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
Ruly Carpenter said today that he was selling his world champion Philadelphia Phillies in the hope that baseball's owners and players would realize the ''never-ending vicious cycle'' of rising salaries and might decide: ''Hey, this is it.'' ''It's an Alice in Wonderland dream,'' Carpenter said, ''and for us, its a hell of a price to pay. But when they see an established family like the Carpenters getting out, people may see what we're doing to each other. It's criminal. But maybe we have to be ...
March 8, 1981

No Headline
Giles, Phillies' Aide, Seeking to Buy Club CLEARWATER, Fla., March 8 (AP) - Bill Giles, executive vice president of the Philadelphia Phillies, met today with the team owner, Ruly Carpenter, to discuss Giles's offer to purchase the club. Giles, who supervises business operations for the Phillies, wants to form a group to buy the defending world champions, whom Carpenter said he was putting up for sale last Friday. Giles is the son of the late National League president, Warren Giles.
March 9, 1981

Red Smith; The Boys Of Spring
THIS is the time of year when the Happiness Boys live it up in the sunshine, when every jeweled day is a joy and the future is golden for 26 baseball teams and 26 managers, when 20 million fans eagerly look ahead to the opening of another season and the goose hangs high in the national pastime. Ruly Carpenter is fed up with goose and has put the Phillies and their world championship on the market. George M. Steinbrenner 3d, not speaking to Reggie Jackson at the moment, is threatening instead to...
March 9, 1981

IN SPORTS, MONEY IS THE MAIN ISSUE
By GEORGE VECSEY
IN a tearful clubhouse address, Ruly Carpenter recently announced that he is selling the Philadelphia Phillies because he is disturbed about the high salaries in the free-agency era of sports. What does it mean when a 40-year-old club owner like Ruly Carpenter - who spent his childhood playing catch with major leaguers, who still plays cards in the clubhouse with his players - feels the need to get out? Is this a sign that events are out of hand in professional sports? Before Carpenter and the ...
March 16, 1981

Additionally I will bring to your attention of a book that was published in 2004, September Swoon: Richie Allen, the '64 Phillies, and Racial Integration by William F. Kashatus (Penn State Press). According to Kashatus, a doctoral level historian out of the University of Pennsylvania, the Philadelphia Phillies are the most notorious racist organization in the history of professional sports. The 1993 National League champions had exactly two African Americans on their roster, Milt Thompson and Ricky Jordan, both of whom were bench players that year.

That's where the above reference comes from.

it's just like the Phillies to be tight with the player who packs the stadium at every home game. Lots of money for a dead-armed Adam Eaton, but cheap with Ryan Howard. It's hard to ignore the race issue in this case.

How many other teams would give Howard $10 million without blinking?

If player salaries are too much for the owners to bear, then it's time to sell the team.

In this new Gilded Age, there must be a number of billionaires willing to showcase their financial empires with a major league baseball team.

If the current ownership wants to get even richer, maybe it should put the cash from selling the team into energy stocks.

Hey, let's bring back Travis Lee !!!

pay the man...just tack it on to my 2 17-game plans

Serious, this has nothing to do with race or being cheap. This is how baseball works under the collective bargaining agreement negotiated by the Union. Understand the system before making outrageous and/or offensive comments. The Phillies do not have to pay Ryan Howard $15M per year. He can not be a free agent until 2011. So why should the Phils shell out an extra $3 or $4 million to one player, when they can possible use that money to improve other areas? Now, would it creat goodwill with the player? Possible. But it will really come down to whether Howard wants to sign for a similar contract that Pujols or Utley signed (and have $100M in the bank), or if he wants to roll the dice and go to arbitration every year for the next 4 years in hopes of getting a much more lucrative deal down the road.

Obviously, the system stinks... when Adam stinkin Eaton makes $8M, and Pat Burrell makes $15M something in wrong.

Serious, this has nothing to do with race or being cheap. This is how baseball works under the collective bargaining agreement negotiated by the Union. Understand the system before making outrageous and/or offensive comments. The Phillies do not have to pay Ryan Howard $15M per year. He can not be a free agent until 2011. So why should the Phils shell out an extra $3 or $4 million to one player, when they can possible use that money to improve other areas? Now, would it creat goodwill with the player? Possible. But it will really come down to whether Howard wants to sign for a similar contract that Pujols or Utley signed (and have $100M in the bank), or if he wants to roll the dice and go to arbitration every year for the next 4 years in hopes of getting a much more lucrative deal down the road.

Obviously, the system stinks... when Adam stinkin Eaton makes $8M, and Pat Burrell makes $15M something in wrong.

Dan is a child and an idiot. He understands baseball through his need to hope that the Phillies win. Idiots are not moved by facts, neither are children. The Phillies are cheap. They will never pay Howard what they paid Utley. They will never pay Rollins what they pay Utley.

Dan, go back to bed and finish the job.

If I was Howard, why not milk the Phils for the next 3 or 4 years at 7-12 million per year? If he cuts down on his K's, and produces the same numbers(obviously higher avg.)he will easily be making 10 mil plus in arbitration each year. Then, when he becomes a FA, he can make 15-25 mil a year from the Phils, or where ever he winds up. As long as he puts up the same numbers he has the last two years on average, he will be getting paid one way or another! And Pat Burrells contract isnt all that bad when you really think about it. Look what Rowand got from one good year of offense, and he didnt even reach 30 homers or 100 rbi! Sure Rowands faster and plays better D, but Pats contract really wasnt all that bad.

Its amazing how everyone wants the Phillies to ignore the process and make Howard a special case. As if every young (in terms of service time)overachiever in MLB hasn't been through the same thing. Like everyone else, his huge payday will come either in the form of an extension or free agency. Look at Barry Zito. He had much more success prior to becoming a free agent. Now, he's paid 3 times his approximate worth. That's what free agency will do for ya. It will all even out for Howard too.

5 years at 55 mil. When Howard is a free agent it will take18-22 million for 7 years to get the job done. IF he has moreyears like he did in 06 figure on the 22 or more. If he dosn't get it here someone else will give it to him he is a force offensively. I dont believe race is an issue. If thats the way te team was 15 and more years ago what has it to do with present ownership? It's like saying this years players are responible for the teams 10,000 loses. Also the Phills offered Soriano 16 mill per year before the season, last time I looked he was black so that desroys the argument that they wont pay a black more than Utley. Sad to say black represention in MLB is down and the amount of blacks onthe team is i keeping with most other teams.

It's always helpful when Quixote cites those relevant (not) Ruly Carpenter references from 25 years ago.

The Phillies should sign Howard to a long-term deal. A big one. He is a slugger and a great teammate.

The Phillies need 1 more quality starting pitcher in 2008.

That's it. Play ball.

RACISM...are you friggin' kidding me.

Jimmy Rollins and Ryan Howard are beloved in this town. Just because Utley got a huge deal first doesn't meant Howard won't.

They are different players.

Historically, players who play Utley's game (a contact hitter, hitting for average, playing an "up the middle" defensive position, and making things happen offensively), are much less likely to turn into a bust, thus making the early decision of giving them a long term contract a bad decision.

Also historically, players who have Howard's attributes, and promise (power hitters who strike out a lot and are suspect defensively) are much more likely to be figured out by pitchers and struggle to put up the numbers that they did early in their career. It just isn't a sound decision financially.

I am not saying Howard is going to be a bust, I don't think he will be and certainly hope as a Phillies fan that he will continue to be the stud that he has shown he is.

It just isn't a sound decision to give him a huge contract before you have to.

Wasn't it just a year ago that we were all complaining about Wade giving Burrell and Lieberthal too much money and too long of a deal?

There may be some hard feelings now, but Howard's agent certainly isn't going to give the Phils a discount for the next contract because they paid him more than they had to, and if they pay him what the market will bear at that point in time, they'll take the deal and be thrilled, regardless of what the previous contract was or wasn't.

Oh, and the Phils are cheap. They can slice it anyway they want, but they don't want to spend the money it is going to take to compete.

Just because they are cheap, it doesn't mean they still can't make sound financial decisions.

ALL THE OWNERS-ARE-CHEAP GUYS,

Out of the 29 other MLB teams how many are NOT cheap?

Dan and Eman will qualify as idiots once they turn 16. Baseball for them started around 2002. Everything they learned, they learned in kindergarten.

The statement by Amaro this week that the Phillies are looking at signing players coming of injured reserve tells you all you need to know about why the Phillies fail every year. I'm so sick of them overpaying for bums like Eaton and Burrell then crying they don't have money for free agents that can actually help the team.

The Phillies have no chance of winning this in arbitration. Howard has more homeruns and rbis the last 2 years then anyone in the game. He is a great teammate and he has won an ROY and MVP. No other super 2 player has ever come close to those stats. The arbiters will not give him less then other have gotten and the Phillies offer of 7 million is below what others have gotten in Howards position. Howards figure of 10 million was given to Soriano, so I think this is a no brainer for the arbiters. You have to give him more then the previous high because his numbers are better.

I love Howard as much as anyone. And with the average fan's preoccupation with the home run these days Howard has, without a doubt, brought a ton of excitement to the Phils. Yes, more than anyone else on the roster.

But let's be real here. When Howard is eligible to become a free agent he will be 32 or 33. In all seriousness, he already has American League (DH) stamped all over him. What will his defense be like in 2011? His physical condition? Weight? Ryan is a huge man (obviously) and his legs, knees and back are under a lot of strain over the course of a 6 or 7 month season. Look at Jim Thome. Again, I love the guy but the American League is where he belongs.

So as much as my heart wants the Phils to lock him up to a long term deal, it probably makes more sense to do the yearly arbitration thing until 2011. At least with arbitration there is a reasonable fit between salary and 'what have you done for me lately'.

I know there are plenty of you who wish the Phils would throw caution to the wind and lock him up forever with a huge dollars. That way, if his production ever did fall off you could use it as yet another example of Phillies management's stupidity.

The Phillies are cheap and their history is replete with their archaic approach to player salaries. Actually there are only two basic examples when this was not true. Back in 1979 William Taft IV was one of the Phillies owners and also owner of Taft 29, which is now Fox 29, who broadcast the Phillies games back then. Taft kicked in some extra dough so the Phillies could sign Pete Rose, and the rest is history. The other example is when they went whole hog to sign Jim Thome before the 2003 season.

Bill Giles was always of the opinion that the Phillies are a "small market" team. Ruly Carpenter's old money philosophy is the same one that Bill Giles, Dave Montgomery, and Jerry Clothier have about player salaries. Nothing has changed in generations. The core group of owners and administrators are Main Line blue bloods. They like to hang on to their money and their views of ethnic minorities are reflective of their social status.

So yes Jimmy Rollins gets $8 million while Pat Burrell gets $14.3 million. Chase Utley will average about $12 million per year while Ryan Howard will earn $900,000 and then if the Phillies get their way $7 million this year. There is a differentiation of salaires here. As mentioned above the Phillies history with race gives rise for this kind of speculation and don't think Ryan Howard and his representatives don't know it.

So, the Phillies are in fact cheap and in addition like to lowball players. That is clearly reflected in their approach to Ryan Howard, last year and this year.

Chase Utley played 43 games in 2003, 94 games in 2004, and then full seasons in 2005 and 2006 before getting his big contract last year. Ryan Howard played 19 games in 2004 and 88 games in 2005, before playing full seasons in 2006 and 2007. So the fact is that Ryan Howard is at the same place Chase Utley was last year when he got his big contract. The difference is that Ryan Howard was Rookie of the year and MVP in his first couple of years while Utley did not receive those accolades. Utley..big contract.....Howard.....no contract offer just debate of whether he is worth it. Race??? Phillies?? Cheap??? Lowball???

You decide.

Howard is the most feared hitter in the game,Howard will be payed by someone,lets hope its the phillies...10 million to keep the very small window of opportunity for a world series ring.........THE PHILLIES NEED HOWARD

I think this guy is on to something here. Why would Ryan Howard get treated this way. He's done everything he's been asked to do and put up huge numbers. He is a major ambassador for the team. He can hit a ball a long way. Chase Utley got treated one way, Ryan Howard another. Y'all better start to examine yourselves around this issue. Doesn't seem like the brother is getting a fair shake on this deal.

The dude is on to something. You can't ignore the history of the team and the people that run it. Same people making decisions now that were making decisions 30-40 years ago.

How can you say Utley deserved a long-term contract last year but Howard doesn't this year? Who is the Rookie of the Year and MVP? This cheap stuff isn't fun anymore and if there's something to this racial aspect then the club needs to examine their perspective.

Ryan Howard shouldn't get $10 million because he's black. He should get $10 for putting up ROY and MVP numbers, and for 47 homers and 138 RBI's last year. He shouldn't be denied his dougn because he is black and it's beginning to look a lot more like that.

Ryan Howard is a tremendous talent with that prolific power he has, but let's not forget he's only in his 1st year of eligibility for arbitration and $10 million would be record setting, hell even the "low ball" $7 mil the Phils countered with is very high. To put this in perspective, Miguel Cabrera (he of more service time than Howard) just agreed to a 11.3 mil 1 year pact with the Tigers and he's every bit as good as Howard. People that going popping off at the mouth about the Phils being cheap in this situation really don't understand the economics of baseball. If the Phils were to award 10 mil to Howard now that throws off 1st year eligible salary structures...the same mentality is supposed to be in effect in the draft.

"How many other teams would give Howard $10 million without blinking?"

This is where you fail to understand MLB contracts. If Howard was a free agent, every club in baseball including the Phils would give Howard 10+ mil, but he's not a free agent. In fact he's only in his 1st year of eligibility.

Like someone said earlier, the Phils of previous years were cheap, they haven't been so recently.

Yeah, and BETA is definitely going to beat out VHS, MTV is never going to amount to anything and the Red Sox are cheap because they didn't want to pay Babe Ruth. Articles from 1981 have no bearing on whether this team, 27 years later, is cheap. In 1981 the Pirates were two years removed from winning a World Series and the Royals had been the second most dominant AL team for the last five years. How are they looking today?

5 years and $55 million would have contract payments of $13 and $15 million for the last two years Howard is eligible for arbitration. Matt Holiday just signed a two year, $23.5 million deal for the same years. it's what he's entitled to before he gets to be a free agent in 2012.

What year of eligibility was Chase Utley in when he got 7 years, $85 million?

Last time I looked, the Philadelphia Phillies won exactly 1 championship in nearly 130 years. Where does that type of futility come from? How about poor critical decision making? How about poor personnel decisions? How about poor financial decisions?

How about the dough shelled out on Eaton, Garcia, Gordon, Helms,Barajas,Burrell, Bell, Lieberthal going all the way back to Ken Howell, Lance Parrish, Von Hayes, Gregg Jeffries, and assorted other stiffs? The same people making the critical financial decisions today are the ones who made the financial decisions since 1981. It has everything to do with the Phillies futility. It has to do with a flawed financial philosophy, one that does not bring playoff appearances and championships.

Matt Holiday came into the league the same year Howard did and he just got 2 years at $23.5 million. Troy Tulowitski just got 6 years and $30 million after one season.

Face it, the Phillies are cheap and pursue a lowball philosophy, one that doesn't work. You Stepford fans are drinking the Phillies Kool Aid. It's your reality but not the reality.

Come back and tell us how successful the Phillies financial approach is after they win something. Until then there's not much to talk about, is there?

Enough with the "Cheap" rant already. Howard, with only 2 full seasons under his belt, will earn close to $8 million dollars this season. He earned $900,000 in '07. How many people do you know that received that kind of raise this year? The Phillies signed Rollins, Utley, and Myers to extensions and ate over $20m to move Thome to Chicago.

Phillies ownership might be mis-guided at times (Adam Eaton), but they certainly aren't cheap. Years of Service dictates how much a player earns, not skin color!

What year of eligibility was Chase Utley in when he got 7 years, $85 million?

Did I actually read someone saying that the Phillies aren't cheap? They are unequivocably cheap bastards and that fact is the primary reason that the team has won almost nothing in their 130 year history.

It's time to sell the team boys to someone who cares. We deserve better! We have a beautiful ballpark, a great core of players and a bunch of cheap bastards running the team who won't support the players and fans by putting the finishing touches on. Why??? Because the Phillies are cheap.

So let's see where our thrifty approach will get us with Ryan Howard.

Check out mlbcontracts.blogspot.com
The website posts every teams contracts and payroll. Once again, the system is designed to benefit the owners when dealing with "young" players and then benefits Veteran players after they reach their Years of Service. Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley signed extension before they had to. Do you think Rollins regrets signing his extension now??? Ryan Howard will earn $8m this season, think about that while your paying $4.00 per gallon at the pumps!

I'm pretty sure that Travis Lee is available. He is an excellent fielder and the Phillies can likely sign him for peanuts.

Problem solved, right?

looks like tulowitski's got a deal...

How come the Colorado Rockies gave Troy Tulowitski a 6 year contract after one year if they didn't have to? I thought MLB teams only did what they had to do because that's the way the system is set up. Maybe they should have called the Phillies first so that Dave Montgomery could tell them what they had to do.

Better yet they could have called one of our expert blog posters here to advise them about how the system is set up and about what they had to do.

Raise your hand if you were happy when Burrel was "locked up" long term. How about Abreau? Were you happy when they signed David Bell to play third? That's happy when they signed him, not after you saw him play. Someone show me where the players held a gun to the owners head and forced him to overpay. Give me one example of a player giving money back to the team when he sucked. Whos' paying the freight here...you and I, the fan the buys the ticket. Howard isn't getting screwed, we are. What's it cost you to take your kids to a game today?

Mixed in amongst all the middle school posters who don't know the economics of their own checkbook, let along Major League Baseball, is a Bill Rhoden-esque post containing blatantly false information.

Mr. Quixote, Tony Longmire, Wes Chamberlain and Kim Batiste are on line 1. They're wondering why you didn't include them in your tally of African-Americans on the 1993 Phillies roster.

Mariano Duncan and Ben Rivera are on line 2. Both are of African descent, but happen to hail from the Dominican Republic. They would like to know (and so would I) what difference that makes.

By my count, that makes seven players of African descent on the roster. Since many of those posting here appear to be mathematically challenged, that would be five more than Mr. Quixote claimed.

While your post had an heir of "truthiness" to it, try using actual facts next time.

Matt Holliday is eligible for free agency after the 2009 season. Ryan Howard isn't eligible until after the 2011 season. I know 2011 minus 2009 may be a tough math problem for some of you, but it's two years. Comparing Holliday and Howard is apples and oranges.

Why soesn't someone go down the list and name a player with two plus years of service time who got $7 million per year. There was one name on the list: Albert Pujols now there will be two.

There is a difference between cheap and stupid. Signing Burrell and Abreu to long term deals wasn't cheap, it was stupid.

"Better yet they could have called one of our expert blog posters here to advise them about how the system is set up and about what they had to do." from Craig T

I'm not PC, and I don't beat around the bush, so let me make this clear- Screw You and shut the hell up. Tulowitski's 6 year 30 million dollar deal averages to 5 mil as season...a relative bargin in the long run. That's completely different than what Howard is asking for. Go back to grade school and learn your math dumbass! I don't claim nor do I pretend to know everything, but when you're so obviously wrong someone needs to shut you up!

People who don't know how baseball contracts work need to shut up and stop flaunting their ignorance.

Trust me, if Howard would take the contract the Rockies offered Tulowitzki, they'd give it to him. If he'd sign the same contract Utley did they'd give it to him too. They'd probably even give him the contract Pujols signed. He wants more though. He wants to be paid an open market deal when he has NO bargaining power.

Howard is a Super-Two in service time, and that affects his pay. It's a terrible system but the only way that baseball can stay afloat. Teams have to take massive losses on 6-7 minor league teams per year to develop and nurture talent and the only way to make it back is through the service time system.

Mr. Facts doesn't know the difference between an African-American and a Hispanic. The Dominicans are of Indian and Spanish descent. We are not African Americans. Your better off laying off such topics because all it shows is your ignorance.

I'm glad you feel that the Phillies had enough persons of colr. Sounds like you are a mouthpiece for racists.

So much for your facts.

GM-Carson dude is an ignorant, nasty man. Sounds like he takes his GM thing seriously.

Tampax wants us to trust him when he says that Ryan Howard would take the 6 year $30 million contract given to Troy Tulowitski. According to Tampax we don't know baseball and are flaunting our ignorance. Tampax goes on to say that the current system is the only way major league baseball can stay afloat. Tampax also says Ryan Howard is a Super 2 player.

What the hell kind of name is Tampax? Where the hell have you been, boy.

It's hard to take a Tampax seriously.

GM-Carson is this blog's resident expert on how free-agency works in baseball. The Colorado Rockies were not supposed to sign Holliday or Tulowitski because they didn't have to. According to GM-Carson you don't have to offer a player a contract until their 6th year in the bigs. According to GM-Carson you have to lowball players with each offer. That is the only way you can do it.

So the Colorado Rockies didn't consult with GM-Carson. They didn't do it right because they unlike he don't know anyghing about baseball.

Last time I looked the Colorado Rockies beat our Phillies 3 straight in the playoffs. It's a hard point to sell that they know nothing about developing and cultivating talent, or signing them for that matter. I'm sure GM-Carson would have them wait a few years after making lowball offers. That's because GM-Carson knows it all.

If you disagree with GM-Carson he calls you angry names. That is because he is a secure and confident GM. He knows all and we don't.

I think I get it.

Isn't Brett Myers a free agent after the 2009 season? Maybe the Phils should worry about him, first.

On the racism issue- I didn't scream at the TV every time Jose Mesa came in because he's hispanic, I screamed because he stunk. I also didn't lose my voice cheering for Jimmy Rollins becuase he was an african-american, I did it because he is a great baseball player and I love the way he plays the game. I have a prejudice for one color: Phillies red.

One team that would give Howard a big contract is the Mets. How would you feel about them having this 50 HR and 150 RBI's player? His bat makes the other batters around him better.

Above I argued that the Phils' ownership is cheap and engages in racially discriminatory practices. After reading the other blogs, I feel that I need to amend my judgment. Now I am convinced that, in addition to what I wrote before, the owners are also stupid.

With all his strike outs Howard should jump at $8 million.

What the heck does my name have to do with what I say? What does anyone's age, as those above me, which you don't even know, have to do with anything? If you can't refute my facts go ahead and attack me personally.

Morons, the whole lot of you. I'm done with this faster than I started here.

Arguing on the internet is like racing in the Special Olympics, even if you win you look retarded.

Once again for you math geniuses out there- Tulowitski signed a 6 year 30 million dollar contract- that averages to 5 mil a season (Howard wants double that, and that would be just this season). Holliday signed at 2 year 23 which is 11.5 a season. Now you need to remember Holliday has more tenure than Howard and therefore more bargaining power, but if Howard were to sign a deal like Holliday's after next season I'm sure the Phils would offer it. What people are failing to realize is that Howard's 10 mil demand is record setting...and to be fair the 7 mil the Phils countered with is still respectable given Howard's first year of eligibility status. I'm not claiming to be an expert on contracts, but I'll call you names when you infuriate me with you brainless babble about the Phils being cheapskates, racists, and retarded stuff like that. To be honest I'd like the Phils to sign Howard to a 5 or 6 year deal right now, but I don't think they will and THEY DON'T HAVE TO!!! Why, because we got Howard whether he likes it or not through 2011...he's not a free agent.

Ryan Howard will either get his $10 million or alternatively the Phillies will have to come up with a legitimate long-term contract. He will not sign for 6 years, $30 million as Tampax suggests, nor will he sign for 6 years,$60 million. He might sign for 6 years, $90 million however.

So while we have children on this blog pretending to be a GM, the reality is that the Philadelphia Phillies are a notoriously cheap organization that engage in lowballing players. The organization has a very lengthy, well documented history or racism, bigotry, and ignorance that was highlighted as recently as their total ineptitude in handling the Brett Myers incident two years ago.

When an organization is primarily motivated out of primitive need to be miserly, all kinds of mistakes are made. The Phillies have and continue to make significant financial errors. They have no sense of a dollar whatsoever as evidenced by Garcia, Eaton, Barajas, Gordon, Burrell, etc.

This ballclub could stand to bring in some competent personnel to handle players and finance. But because of all the cronyism and nepotism, that will never happen. The best thing for the fans is if this group of ownership sells the team to someone who cares about winning a championship.

TonyO

First you say the Phils are notoriously cheap (which I agree with) and then you say that they overpaid Garcia, Eaton, Barajas Etc.

Which is it? I think they are cheap but they are trying to change that. Perhaps they are just stupid.

I think they should try to split the difference with Howard and pay him 8.5 million. If he won't accept that, let it go to the arbiter. I don't think that after two years he is worth more than 8.5 million.

Clearly the Phils are terrified Howard will come to camp straight from Krispy Kreme, like last year. Everybody remembers he came in out of shape, struggled the first month and then got himself hurt. Seems to happen with big men. Let's also not forget he hit about .220 for 4 out of the 6 months (thank God for July and a strong finish). Plus he struck out 200 times.

I'll leave it to the national baseball writers/broadcasters who don't watch the Phils everyday like the rest of us - huge HRs and RBI aside, he was kind of a liability at the plate for looong stretches (remember Utley's month-long absence?). Still, he ends up where on the MVP ballot? This despite probably deserving the fourth spot on the TEAM (behind Rollins, Utley and Rowand).

On top of all that, he's fired how many agents in the last few years?

JoseC... despite you sounding like you have a Dominican heritage in your post, you might need a history lesson.

First of all, the native indians to the Hispanola are the Caribs... and they have all died out centuries ago. The people who are now considered native Domincans and Haitians are a direct result of the African slave trade. They were imported by the Spanish for slave labor. I'm sure there is a quite a bit of spanish blood going around down there, but that doesn't change the fact that their descendants originally came from Africa.

So yes their language is Spanish, so they are considered Hispanic, but the point of that poster was you can trace their heritage back to Africa if you go far enough back and he is factually correct in that statement.

Arguing on the internet is like racing in the Special Olympics, even if you win you look retarded.
Posted by TampaxJackson | January 21, 2008

You are an ass. If you had ever spent any time at a Special Olympics, you would clearly understand what real sportsmanship is about. These are kids that compete for the joy of it, not for glory or contracts. You should have their drive and guts.

Save your ignorant responses for another board.

Its complete garbage that anyone should say race has anything to do with it. Of all the things the Phillies ownership may be (cheap, and stupid for sure) they are not racist and neither are the fans. The most beloved sports heroes of Philly have been chosen not because of their race but because of the way they played the game. Jimmy Rollins and Ryan Howard are two of the biggest favorites in Philadelphia righ