The Zo Zone

Wasn't Matt Smith the only guy we got for Abreu who could actually pitch?

Thanks, Todd! At least in the short run, you seem to be the only person in the media who considers this to be worth reporting.

no because matt smith cant pitch even when healthy and cj henry was a joke of a prospect...terrible cost cutting deal since we released 2 0f the 3 players even considered longshots to make it to the bigs when both were 5-6 years shy of 30...thats very telling since when the marlins retool every year and trade high salaried players with less or equal skill of abreu they pluck top prospects who usually pan out

no because matt smith cant pitch even when healthy and cj henry was a joke of a prospect...terrible cost cutting deal since we released 2 0f the 3 players even considered longshots to make it to the bigs when both were 5-6 years shy of 30...thats very telling since when the marlins retool every year and trade high salaried players with less or equal skill of abreu they pluck top prospects who usually pan out

Matt Smith -- a remnant of the Bobby Abreu trade. Look what we got for Curt Schilling -- the only good player was Silva. What ever happened to Travis Lee? Let's hope that our future deals will be a little more beneficial to us. Phils' management needs to treat Ryan Howard with the dignity and generosity that he deserves.

Silva was not in the Schilling deal -- that was Travis Lee, Padilla, some guy named Nelson Figueroa and Omar Daal. Matt Smith got hurt last year, so much like the pitcher in the Rolen deal (Bud Smith) and Freddie Garcia, we keep getting pitchers with problems.

I agree about Henry. I saw him play in Lakewood and figured he must have had pictures of someone, because he was beyond horrible at that level. (I heard he had vision problems corrected, so watch him become a player now that we released him.)

Maybe the catcher and very young pitcher from the Abreu deal will turn out okay, if they're even around.

I thought Matt Smith was gonna be pretty good last year based on how well he did the year the Phils traded Abreu. I didn't even know he was hurt, he just disappeared. He kinda hurt the Phils last year. I thought he had pretty good stuff and I kinda wish the Phils could keep him in the minors but I guess you just can't do that.

So the bags of beans we traded Abreu for had a hole in it and the last bean leaked out? Boo-hoo! You're missing the point. Abreu's going was good for the Phils because he was the second-last of the country-club guys (T. Lee, Rolen, Leiberthal, Bell) and now we have guys who want to play and believe we can win. Rowand's attitude was catching (the anti-Abreu as far as walls are concerned!), and even Burrell seems to be on board now. Even with Rowand gone, Rollins, Utley, and Victorino should be able to kepp the winning attitude going.

So the bags of beans we traded Abreu for had a hole in it and the last bean leaked out? Boo-hoo! You're missing the point. Abreu's going was good for the Phils because he was the second-last of the country-club guys (T. Lee, Rolen, Leiberthal, Bell) and now we have guys who want to play and believe we can win. Rowand's attitude was catching (the anti-Abreu as far as walls are concerned!), and even Burrell seems to be on board now. Even with Rowand gone, Rollins, Utley, and Victorino should be able to kepp the winning attitude going.

I liked Matt Smith, too, but he's a situational lefty who wasn't going to be ready to pitch this year- no sense in holding a roster spot for him, Taguchi's more important.

We do, however, need another lefty in the bullpen- I'm not ready to give that to Zagurski.

Al- I agree- the best part of the Abreu deal was that he left. It seems as if he's allergic to the wall in Yankee Stadium just like he was here.

I'll be pissed if M.Smith pitches good when he plays again!

Why would you call Rolen a country club player?Rolen played hard and the way the game should be played. Bell and Lieberthal also did not hold anything back. The only thing you could say about Abreu was he shied away from the wll. I hate to say this but the Phillies fans MAY BE the worst in baseball. Many come to the park just to boo. I fell the players would do better if they felt the fans were behind them. The only time I would boo a player is is he didn't hustle.

I back Don: Rolen played the game while here hard & tough, with all out effort. I believe Mike Schmidt even said once in the paper that Rolen was a better defensive player. Really enjoyed watching Rolen play the game.

Back to pitching, it's time to sign Livan Hernandez or some other veteran innings eater. This is the year to spend some money. Sign a veteran No. 3 starter to a big one year contract with option years. This team is so close & the fans can taste it. Gillick smartly wants to watch the bottom line, but the pennant is within reach, let's spend big bucks on one or two year deals for a veteran starter (Livan!) and a lefty reliever and go for it in 2008. Make it happen, Pat!

Don, you say you would only boo a player that doesn't hustle...well abreu should be at the top of your list. Besides being scared of the wall, I never saw him dive headfirst for a ball either. How many big hits did he get while he was in philly? I remember a GW homer vs the mets, but that is it. I am convinced he pees sitting down. I don't care what the phils got for him, it was addition by subtraction. Doug Glanville was tougher than that Mary.

Matt Smith stinks. He can't throw strikes. The phils need a situational lefty in their pen (someone not named zagurski).

Unfortunately, our situational lefty will be Romero, which would be a waste since Romero is great against LHs and RHs. This has been a very disappointing offseason, other than the Lidge deal. This team is going to be very vulnerable against situational lefties, as the middle of our order will all be batting from the left-side. Let's hope Burrell has a career year, otherwise this team will struggle to play .500 ball as teams will pitch around Utley and Howard.

Isn't it amazing how the Fish have won a World Series, dismantled, won another Series and are dismantling again while we're still "building" from '93? Were the Fish just lucky or was someone smart running that outfit (certainly not the ownership). Why do they keep bringing up kids who can play at an early age, trade them for another stockpile of players who, no doubt will have an impact at the Major Lg. level later on, and probably beat us to another WS? Sorry Pat. Sorry Reuban. Sorry Mike. I ain't buying your BS anymore.

I used to go to Clearwater in March; I've seen Rolen stiff kids wanting autographs, while Daulton, not playing then, stayed at the wall signing for all comers. Paul Byrd is still pitching. Philly teams need management that understands all elements required for the committment to locating top players, here, south of the Gulf of Mexico or west of the Pacific, and keeping them in Philly within reasonable financial constraints. Rollins, Uttley and Howard are examples of success...how did that work; who was involved; how can it be duplicated? If you don't have someone ready to replace a fixture that has exceeded reasonable financial constraints, then management has failed. The talent to locate and aquire athletic talent is paramount to successful team management and represents something all Philadelphia fans should demand. The talent to maximize use of athletic talent is only impotrtant if the athletic talent is actually there. When corporate management fails, you sell their stock; when team management fails, you don't support them...don't go and boo, just don't go.

JC Romero fills the situational lefty spot, and how did we get him? Oh yeah, that's right, waivers.

We can find a guy like JC Romero on waivers? You won't be missed, Matt Smith (or for that matter, Bobby "No Heart" Abreu)...

I don't think of Romero as a situational lefty...especially after how the phils used him last year (in a setup role). He is effective vs lefties, but he is generally used for an inning, not for a matchup. The team still needs another lefty in the pen...someone that can come in to get a tough lefty out late in games...a role like dan plesac had while he was here.

Philly fans boo because they care and they're among the most knowledgeable fans in the country. Add to that the fact that they've been deprived of any major league championship for 25 years now. Whenever I go to a Phillies game I invariably have fans around me arguing, quoting stats, and backing their arguments with a solid understanding of the game. Along with that level of passion and understanding comes the boos. Philly fans are second to none in my opinion. Okay I AM one so I'm biased ...

Trackboy1 - I was up on Livan early in the free agent cycle but am down on him now. All indications are that he's in a steady, consistent decline both with innings pitched and strikeouts. But I agree we need something short term other than Eaton. Have I mentioned that I don't think Eaton can help? :-)

George is right on about having to develop players. Right now the farm system is too empty at the positional spots. There are some decent pitchers in the system in my opinion.

I was embarrased to read in the index of subjects that on 12/7 Zolecki wrote among other things that any talk of Victorino & Kendrick for Bedard was a lot of poop. Oops. I thought I was the only person to dream that up and I thought I was brilliant. Kind of funny actually.
I dont think the Phils have made a bad move this offseason. Lidge was probably the best closer available and the Phils got him and freed up Myers to be a starter. Lidge may be a better closer than Myers.
Geoff Jenkins and Chad Durbin where nice additions. Jenkins could have a very good year and Durbin, hopefully, won't have to be a starter and can add depth to the bullpen. He's pretty good insurance if Eaton can't bounce back or if Kendrick fails.
Rowand was a nice player and hustler and a good guy but was he worth what the Giants gave him? Personally, I just don't think so.
Everyone wants superstars but they're not available this year whether you're cheap or not. If guys where available the Mets would have overpaid for them. Gillick made shrewd moves this offseason. There where no block headed moves like Victorino & Kendrick for Bedard.
The only guy I might overpay for would be Lohse. Oops,there I go again.

Is it in poor taste to still hate Bill Giles for cutting out all the spending in the farm system? Isn't he the reason the minor league cupboard is bare? The few trades out there that might have helped the Phils weren't made and won't be made because we just don't have the prospects. I don't think anyone out there will say the Phils are loaded in the minors. Weren't the Phillies one of the last teams, if not the last team, to establish an academy in Latin America? I'm asking, so if not, let me know.

"Nope" pointed out that the Marlins are always calling up solid young guys. Well, they have spent the money in the farm system. Before the Phils moved into the Bank, they cut that budget, but the money didn't go into the major league payroll. Where did it go?

I've been on here numerous times saying the Phils aren't cheap. Well, they aren't. But they used to be, and it is still hurting our chances of putting a truly great team on the field. The success of Utley, Howard, Hamels, Victorino, not withstanding, the farm system has left us all wanting more.

What is wrong with booing? Please don't trot that tired ol' "the players would play better if they weren't being booed" routine. These guys are professionals making a lot of money in most cases. There is nothing wrong with voicing your displeasure as a fan by booing. Would a obscenity laden tirade be a better idea? I think not.

Players in this town have never had to wonder where they stand. A few mixed boos and you could be dealing with some idiots. A loud stadium wide chorus of boos from a very knowledgeable fan base and there shouldn't be a lot of doubt. Philly will always love the players who understand that. Mike Schmidt, Donovan McNabb and future incredibly talented superstars who don't get it will never be loved here.

Bob-
your comment disgusts me. i can't stand people like you; people who go to a Phillies game (or any other for that matter) and believe they have a constitutional right to boo. that was not one of the inalienable rights provided for you by Mr. Jefferson.

if you really can't control yourself and need to boo, then boo effort. because hustle is the only element that a player truly has complete control over at any point. if they're not continuously hustling, then yes, let 'em have it. but if Howard doesn't hit a moonshot while you're there or Burrell strikes out three times, then sit down and shut up.

it's irrelevant how many millions of dollars they're paid to play the game. that does not give you the right to deride them because they fail to meet some subjective standard that you've arbitrarily created for them.

i was at the second-to-last game of the season this year. the Phils entered the game in first place and needed only to win the next two games to secure the NL East, regardless of what the Mets did. we all know that the Phillies lost that game and entered the final day in a tie for the NL East. but what was most remarkable that day was that in the third inning, you, or someone who shares your philosophy, got up behind me and tried to start an E-A-G-L-E-S chant. in the third inning of the 161st game of a season in which the Phillies had weathered injuries to almost every core player, at a point in the season when they were actually winning the division, in the third inning of a game that we trailed by only two runs or so, at a time when the bright sunshine of the 2007 season had temporarily disappeared behind a cloud, you or someone like you, thought it was appropriate and necessary to deride the effort and taunt the team and wave the white flag on a season that was far from over yet. it sickened me. it shamed me. it was the lowest moment i've ever felt as a lifelong Philadelphia fan.

so shame on you Bob. really. shame on you for condoning behavior like that in this city. shame on your for teaching your children that it's appropriate to behave like that. and shame on you for failing to recognize that it's your behavior that makes Philadelphia a difficult place to attract free agents to or sign talented drafted players, or a place infamous for chasing talented players (like, say, McNabb) out of town. really, you're not helping. so if you're truly a fan and truly want to see this town win a championship, then, please, sit down and put a hot dog in your mouth.

What ever came of the whole Kris Benson workout? I know that he was looking for a one year contract, and the Phillies were looking to give one. Did he have health problems?

What ever came of the whole Kris Benson workout? I know that he was looking for a one year contract, and the Phillies were looking to give one. Did he have health problems?

Fans don't boo nobodies
-- Reggie Jackson

They read their sports pages, know their statistics and either root like hell or boo our butts off. I love it. Give me vocal fans, pro or con, over the tourist types who show up in Houston or Montreal and just sit there.
-- Mike Schmidt

I never heard a crowd boo a homer, but I've heard plenty of boos after a strikeout,
-- Babe Ruth

I understand people who boo us. It's like going to Broadway show, you pay for your tickets and expect to be entertained. When you're not, you have a right to complain.
-- Sparky Anderson

Nobody is immune [to being booed]. I heard them boo Mickey Mantle. I was in Philadelphia when Mike Schmidt, who was voted the greatest Phillie ever, got booed more than anybody. ... Mariano realizes it's not personal. It's that he didn't do the job. That's the natural thing that comes out in boos. ... Where much is given, much is expected.
-- Jim Kaat

San Francisco has always been my favorite booing city. I don't mean the people boo louder or longer, but there is a very special intimacy. When they boo you, you know they mean you. Music, that's what it is to me. One time in Kezar Stadium they gave me a standing boo.
-- George Halas

I really had the crowd on a string. It was yay, boo, yay, boo. But if I let that bother me, I'd have to go back to pressing pants with my old man.
-- Billy Kilmer

I believe that the fans positively impact performance, whatever sport it is. The fans impact and they have a positive way of motivating you. But the boos motivate us also because we know that the fans want more and they deserve more and we want to give them more.
-- Isiah Thomas

Dale Earnhardt told me it doesn't matter if fans boo or cheer, as long as they're making noise.
-- Kurt Busch

We should encourage fans to scream or boo if they like, just like in baseball and football. This sport has too much stuffiness and protocol. It needs more pizzazz.
-- Billy Jean King

good post S take that Lea! And who cares about McNabb,he brings it on himself. What do you expect from these winning deprived fans in Philly?? Its not like we have a reason to cheer, maybe once they win another championship,or dare I say two,then we can all hug each other and be merry!! Then go back to booing lol

I don't know if he booed, but did everyone see how Jamie Moyer took a little Philly fan dust back to Seattle for the Seahawks/Skins game?

http://www.bugsandcranks.com/philadelphia-phillies/jamie-moyer-is-the-12th-man/

Nice job S. That about hits it on the head. I golfed with an ex-outfielder for the Phils and the subject of booing came up. He said when you're in the outfield and you get booed there is nowhere to hide. It's terrible. But he went on to say he once threw out a runner at the plate and the cheers began around home plate and circled around him at the Vet. The hair on the back of his neck stood up. He said the stadium was packed and there was nothing to compare it to.
Fans should boo. I remember fans began leaving when Joe Crowley (remember Crowley & Lance Parrish) got lit up. They started to leave in about the second inning. If nothing else it tells ownership & their management team they suck and we won't stand for it. When fans boo it lights a fire under everyone. Tough fans are like a tough boss. Most times you kind of hate and maybe fear the boss but boy your production sure goes up. Some guys may wilt but you hope to God you don't have those kinds of snowflakes on your team. I can't take a player who doesn't have the stomach to take booing.

Lea- you're not really taking a shot at the Phillies fans for last year, are you?

A little background- I moved out of town with my job a couple of years back. I live and die with the Phils so I have the satellite radio and the MLB package on cable. You could tell from watching and listening to all of these games the place was electric. The Thursday afternoon Met game that we won 11-10, the park was crazy. The fans helped carry this team to the division title the last week of the season. The fans also showed up- over three million strong.

One question, what exactly is a fan supposed to do when 75 year old Jose Mesa comes in and gets whacked around like a pinata, stand up and applaud? Philly fans care and yes, we boo, but we cheer pretty f-in loud, too.

Every Phillie should have Michael Jack's quote taped to their locker. Does Schmidt epitomize the relationship of great Philly player and fan or what?

Donovan should have the Billy Kilmer quote taped to his. My hope would be for Donovan to win a Super Bowl as an Eagle, just like Schmidt won a World Series, to get the full picture.

And then there was Pete Rose ...

Romero will not be the situational lefty out of the pen. That will fall to either Mike Zagurski or more likely to the recently acquired Shane Youman, unless they pick someone else up. Matt Smith was nothing special.

Lea, Lea, Lea...I think you are better served watching games on TV and giving your seats to a fan. Either that, or become a Cardinals fan where you do and say the same thing regardless of what happens on the field. (Yeaaaaa. Get'em next time fellas).

Constitutional right? I'm not bearing arms, or yelling fire in a movie theatre. I'm just voicing my opinion in a very generic way that translates across all languages.

And yes, I DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO BOO:

I can boo a guy who beats his wife
I can boo a fan who reaches touches a fair ball
I can boo a guy who strikes out 3 times
I can boo a guy who misplays a ball
I can boo a ball girl who misses a foul ball
I can boo an opposing fan
I can boo a mgr who screws up a double switch
I can boo a mgr who doesn't bunt when he should
I can boo Joe Carter
I can boo Leon Stickle
I can boo the horse that beat Smarty Jones
I can boo anyone from NY for any reason at all
I can boo you. And I probably would.

Oh, by the way, I can promise you that we cheer much more than we boo...but the above scenarios, St. Louis notwithstanding, don't call for cheers or sticking hot dogs in one's mouth.

I am proud of what I am teaching my kids. Luckily they will be here in years to come to ensure that Philly continues to be the home of the most knowledgeable sports fans in the country.

I re-read my post and then you post again. You attributed an awful lot of things to me that I didn't say (and frankly don't do... Eagles chants?). It sounds like you are painting everyone with one stroke.

Look in the mirror, your digusting rant without any basis is far worse than any person I have ever seen booing. But you are protected by Mr. Jefferson, so blog on.

Lea,

Please go away.

"Luckily they will be here in years to come to ensure that Philly continues to be the home of the most knowledgeable sports fans in the country."

Yeah, that's a good one. Pffft.

Bob and Lea,

Its odd to see such great writing on a blog, Good job fellas, you both get A's. For writing so well and supporting your positions. S also dug up some great quotes.

sadly KMG, yes, i am taking a shot at at least two fans from last season- the guys behind me who tried to start the EAGLES cheer...
i too live and die with the Phils and since my job also moved me away from the city i listened to every damn game on mlb radio. i was encouraged and delighted throughout the season to hear how many fans had turned up and how raucus the crowds were, especially given how up and down the seasons fortunes seemed. that's why when i finally made it to a game, to the penultimate game of the season, a potential division clincher, i was so disheartened to hear an EAGLES chant when the Phils went down by a run in the second inning.
look, i'm a big enough person to admit that booing does sometimes have merit. my point, and what makes me so livid, is that the attempted EAGLES chant at that point in the season, after going down a run in the second inning of the 161st game of the year in a season in which the Phils had battled continuously and were finally poised to win that championship that fans have longed for decades to see, seemed counter-productive. so S, Bob, i'll back down here if you can supply a reasonable explanation for why booing at that juncture is constructive. just when the team needed a rally (of one run!) someone of your ilk thought it was best to remind them that they're not the only team in town, that despite all the gratitude they'd been shown by the city throughout the summer, they're still not the beloved Eagles. just tell me how that helps Ryan Howard hit one out?
it doesn't. you know it. and i know it. and the two guys behind me who tried to start the chant knew it too. because when all 5'3" of me rose from my chair to tell them to can it, they did.
booing certainly has its place. and it may well work as a motivator for some players. but in that moment, the booing didn't seem charmingly colloquial or iconicly Philadelphian, it didn't seem motivated by a desire to help the team. it seemed spiteful and condescending. and it reminded me of that proverbially dog, the one who gets hits on the nose for everything it does and eventually comes to believe that it deserves to be hit on the nose for anything it does. that dog was a winner.

i should clarify, to KMG and everyone else, that i am not trying to take a shot at all Phillies fans. on the whole I am quite proud of Philly fans as the most knowledgable in the game and i would be lying to say to that i've never booed, but that one incident really stuck in my craw and certainly bears vituperation.

Lea, you really don't appear to be that different than the rest of us. You are disgusted with Eagles chants at Phils games. I think most Phillie fans (who like me are probably all Eagles fans too), feel the same way.

I think it is important to note that the only time that "eagles chants" appears in this blog is in your two posts. Booing and Eagles chants at Phillies games having nothing in common. One is something true fans do and the other is some that drunk bandwagon baseball fans do. I'm glad you said something to them...

At a game you can't yell out what you would say in a blog, so you whittle it down to the basic emotion. Booing means you don't like it.

You were sitting right in front of the "eagle chanters"...you said something to them. People who felt the same way as you who weren't close enough to yell at them, had to power to boo them. It would have said the same thing.

When the "let's go Mets chant starts in Philly, and it is promply drowned out by a chorus of boos".

Why does it have to be constructive? Can it just make us feel better?

Why can't I boo a guy who strikes out 3 times with RISP or a guy who comes in form the bullpen in 3 straight games and can't get anyone out?

Like Bob said Lea, the guy or guys who started the eagles chant may not even been real baseball fans. Maybe someone gave them tickets or something and they decided to be a typical A-hole eagle fans and start the chant, and I would say 100% they were drinking and just being jerks. And im sure doing it knowing they were gonna piss people off, and of course it worked. Bottom line, Eagles fans are the worst in football, and apparently baseball!!

All this over Matt Smith?????

Hurry up, Todd! Another blog thread is needed. Please help the baseball deprived fans of Philadelphia and beyond!!!!!!!!

We're meltinnngggggggggggg!

Lea - the fact that you got up and told them to can it makes you a true Philly fan.

I was also at one of the last Mets games at CBP. I heard no boos and when the Mets fans behind us started to act up, they were also told to can it by quite a few people.

Not all boos are warranted or good but it's hard for me to be critical. A lot of it is frustration over so many years with no winners. That's where the E-A-G-L-E-S cheers come from: even the hint of failure kicks fans into deja vu mode and they blow steam off by trying to rally around the next perceived Philly winner. Little did the E-A-G-L-E-S guys know how that season would turn out.

Leaving a 2006 end of season game where it was clear it was over, one fan heading toward his car said, "Well at least there won't be any playoff traffic making it hard to get to Eagles games." Most fans, I think, try to find the half full glass if they can.

jrquixote is right: What about Matt Smith, and let's move on here ... How many days until pitchers and catchers report anyway?