The Zo Zone

Well, agree or disagree, it doesn't matter. Congratulations, Ryan! Don't spend it all in one place!

Seems fair. Good for him.

He deserves it. Hopefully he's in shape, he'll have a huge year, and both sides can move on.

PS: I like the new "civility" mention at the bottom of the page. This is a great blog, with some really passionate posters. Todd's the man. Let's try and keep this fun!

Its not whether he earned it or not, its that the Phils shouldn't have to overpay a guy who's only been in the bigs for 2.5 years. Sux for the phils in the short term, but maybe this will pave the way to future negotiations on a long term deal...

Well, I'm happy. The Phillies certainly seem like they want to see how Howard looks in blue pin stripes, and that's a horrible, horrible thought.

Well deserved. Now can we get back to baseball already. Is anyone trying to step into that 5th spot in the rotation? I know it's early but pitchers are throwing BP and you can tell alot about velocity and location in BP. How are the young guns looking?

to those celebrating howard's victory, remember that the phillies play by a budget, like it or not. three million extra for howard (and likely three million higher for each of the next three years as arbitration payments are based on last year's), means less money for inseason replacements and less money that the phillies spend on other players later. think about how the phillies would have done last year if lohse and iguchi hadn't come in and filled the three million extra in the budget. this ruling means we're less likely to make the playoffs now and in the future, not by much, but by enough that it's weird to see people celebrating. he's not giving the money to you.

The Phillies lose their first arbitration to not only a very worthy baseball player but to a great person.
I hope they can get the long term deal hammered out so they do not have to lose face year after year. This will hopefully signal to them that they have a rare talent worthy of high salary regardless of his service time. If Ryan can hit .305 strike out less than 150 times hit 50 homer and bat in 140 basemen he can get 15 mil next yr.....
The Phillies deserve this loss and hopefully they wise up and pay the "big man" so this does not become an annual rite.

Lets go Ryan!

Truth, can please put the race card to sleep now. We told you that was old news about an older ownership.

Kev, I did not see anything racial in my comments! What are you talking about?

Matt S., I think it's funny that you are blaming Howard for the Phillies spendthrift ways, are you kidding? Maybe you should encourage Gillick to stop wasting money on players like Garcia, Barrajas,Helms and Eaton. Thats roughly 23 mil wasted last year alone. Give me a break Matt S. hold the right ppl accountable.

Not today anyway. Those comments were made on previous posts. I'm with you on a lot of what you write, but not those race issues. I hope Howard earns every penny, we need him!

Truth, I think what MattS is trying to say is that b/c Howard is getting 3mil more, the Phils will reduce spending in other areas by 3mil. I don't blame Howard and I am happy for him for getting the money (I feel it is deserved), but I also understand that the team we root for will look for ways to get the money back. I agree with you too that if this does come up as an issue the blame is squarely ont eh shoulders of front office. I worry about next year when howard will want 15 mil and then hamels will want 10mil. our team will be rollins, howard, utley, hamels, and 21 guys from a far northeast softball team ***(if they are willing to play for beer).

*** Before anyone thinks that is a dig about northeast philly, it isn't, i am from there originally and we like our beer league softball.......

Well, you know the Player's Association is very happy this morning, as I'm sure this helps raise the bar for everyone. I think the Phillies will do the right thing. Let's see how he does. If he has a great year, I think they will come back with a nice, multioffer year.

Well, you know the Player's Association is very happy this morning, as I'm sure this helps raise the bar for everyone. I think the Phillies will do the right thing. Let's see how he does. If he has a great year, I think they will come back with a nice, multioffer year.

Howard's raise is well deserved. The Phillies can well afford it and there is no salary cap in baseball. So, everybody wins and come back to make more money.

The Inquirer poll as to those for or against his raise?

82% are in favor of his raise.
12% are opposed to his raise.

About 1500 voted so far. The vast majority of us support Ryan on his abitration victory.

Why are people celebrating? Its not like we the fans see any of that money. Pro athletes are waaaaaaaaay over paid! Howard is now set for life if he never plays(works) after this year, at 7 or 10 million. Not too many of us could say that. These athletes should be grateful to make millions playing games for a living, and shouldnt complain when making millions of dollars, be it 2-3 or 7-10 mil per year. Just play ball and quit whinning like little b!tches

There are at least two bright sides of Ryan Howard's victory in his arbitration hearing.

First, Ryan Howard gets paid what he deserves.

Second, maybe the Phillies owners will now sell the team in disgust over high salaries like Ruly Carpenter did in 1982. It's the same bunch running the organization now that ran it back then.

I hear Clinton's mother is overpaid.

It would be amusing if Howard continued to smash the cover off the ball, and just go to arbitration every year rather than sign a long-term deal. If he continues to deliver, he'd be up to $25 million by the final arb. year.

TonyO-whose to say that whoever brought the Phillies wouldn't be worse?
The truth of the matter is that with a good GM anything is possible. Look at Arizonia, Colorado, et al. The Marlins have won with low payrolls a few times. Look I'm not mad at the Phils b/c of their payroll top ten isn't bad. The Howard thing upset me b/c they held him in the minors for 2 years too long, then want to say he is old! Thats a low blow if you ask me.

clinton, nj-you seem rather upset. Once again it's scale. Baseball players make more than we do and generate more than we do. Get over it.

OK. Now let's get on with the season, and.....

PLAY BALL!!!

The Inquirer poll as to those for or against his raise?

82% are in favor of his raise.
12% are opposed to his raise.

About 1500 voted so far.

Rumor is Truth voted 1200 times.

Stupid Phillies. They should have paid him the money from the start. They could have earned a lot of good will from him for a future long-term deal. Now, they still have to pay the money after playing hardball with him. Forget about Howard being kind in any contract extension talks. Now that the Phillies took him to arbitration, he's going to get his from now on. Bad play by the Phillies brass in my opinion.

if they owners can can afford to pay the salary then everything else is irrelevant. so it's no such thing as an overpaid athlete or entertainer for that matter...... so save the morality speeches! let ryan get his cash! because the only sure thing in life is death!

I still think they will try and work out a long term deal, unfortunately, this sets the price of that deal even higher. Its even in Ryan's interest to work out a long term deal, because the money would be guaranteed - if he wants to go to arb every year, he risks either getting hurt or having an awful year or two and not getting paid. That's a nice thought that Truth throws out there about him hitting ".305 strike out less than 150 times hit 50 homer and bat in 140 basemen", but what if its more like .250, 200 K's, 30 HR and 100 RBI? Then it starts to look like a downward spiral and he will begin to lose money in arb.

And on the Phils keeping him in the minors 2 years too long, that's BS. Nobody knew exactly what they had in him and you couldn't blame them for signing Thome. Its not like he was a stud out of HS and they kept him there until he was 26 for no reason.

Tim, you show your true colors. Ryan can hot 40 HRs in his sleep. Once you do that 120 rbi's becomes academic.
Dude he broke every HR record in the minors he was avg one per gm dam near. Are you kidding? They didn't know what they had?

I love Ryan Howard, but does anyone really think he's worth more than Albert Pujols? Pujols hits for a better average, strikes out less, and is better with a glove. I think its alittle absurd for him to be asking for a "contract FAR in excess of the seven-year, $100 million contract" that Pujols got in '04.

So you are saying that .305 (which he didn't sniff last year), and 40-50 HR is a lock, every year? You can't guarantee that, not for him or any player. I'm just saying its in HIS best interest to try and lock something up long term as well, just in case.

He didn't start breaking those records in the minors until about 2 years before they brought him up - and they already had Thome, so prior to that, they weren't sure, look at the scouts comments from his first few years. And success in the minors doesn't always translate to the next level.

I am a Ryan Howard fan, don't get me wrong, and I want him to be signed long term and be very successful. I hope he hits 600+ HR's in a Phils uniform.

thank God Ryan got his money!

i was so worried there for a second. to think, he would have to get by making only $175 million during his career!

I thought Philly was a blue collar city, why is everyone so happy that a guy is getting 10 mil instead of 7 mil? what's in it for us? don't you know the 3 extra million will come out of the Phillies budget. it's not like they're going to increase their budget, they'll look to save money somewhere else.

why is everyone so happy? it's not like he was going to make $40,000 if he lost?!!

Brian, don't worry. There isn't going to be any ill will. Everyone knows this is the *business* of baseball. I wonder how much Ryan even had to do with any of this. It's usually orchestrated by the agents. DON'T GET ME STARTED!!!

My big concern with the $10 mil is, how much will he ask for a long-term contract. And will we be able to afford him without sacrificing the rest of the team.

first off, i love Ryan Howard.
but,
Jayson Stark says that Howard's agent is holding out for A-rod type money!!

is everyone going to still be celebrating in a few years when Howard holds out for top dollar and signs with the Yankees?

will everyone still be happy for him?

this is just the case of another millionaire trying to drain every last penny from his team. no doubt the Phils are cheap, but they have even less money to spend today than they did yesterday.

I don't care who won the case. The money is, and always has, been there...it was just a case of who was going to to get it...owner or player...not the customer. The difference in salery this year bothers me less than the salery of last year. They "held him" at $900,000 per Selig's Edict. He deserved 1 mil. last year just for the previous two years if for no other reason than to tell him, "we think you're special and we're going beyond the Commissioner's Guidelines." Other teams will do it, but this team wants to stay on Bud's good side. (Anybody see a "good side" of Bud?) This team still thinks "inside the box."

"Dude he broke every HR record in the minors he was avg one per gm dam near."

Minor league stats: 507 games, 111 hr's

Source: Google

But don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.

According to Comcast Sportsnet last night, Howard was looking for $20 million a year and a contract in the $200 million range. After this season, those numbers will go up. If the Phillies could work something out now, the cheap label and the unwilling to do what it takes to win label could be removed. If not, we had better get ready to see Howard in a Yankees, Red Sox, and even worse Mets uniform. I really hope the Phillies step up and sign him long term NOW but am not confident they will!

http://philliesphorum.mlblogs.com

So A-Rod, maybe the greatest baseball player of all time (maybe) signed a $20 mil/year contract after his 7th year (5th full year), and Howard wants one after 2 and a half?

Real nice Nutter, so original. Gimme a break people, these pro athletes are overpaid, greedy babies! Not all are like this, but alot are. I agree with anonymous. Pujols is better than Howard, PERIOD! And guess what, to make up for that 3 million, maybe the Phils will just raise ticket prices, then will ya'll be so happy Howard got ten million instead of a measly 7 mil.

Clinton is better than Howard. Angrier too.

Let's everyone be of good cheer and congratulate Ryan Howard's arbitration victory with the Phillies. There is plenty of money to go around in baseball and Ryan just got a pile of it.

Look at it this way, if the Phillies hadn't been such CHEAP BASTARDS trying to LOWBALL Ryan, they could have settled this a long time ago. So Ryan is a little richer and the Phillies a little poorer. Good thing there is no salary cap in baseball.

Do you really think the Phillies owners will be so disgruntled by spiraling salaries that they will sell the team like Ruly Carpenter did in 1982?

Angry guy in clinton nj/armpit, maybe the Phils should have built a larger stadium maybe a 50,000 seater so they could generate more revenue, I guess they had a spending limit for that too. God forbid the rich guys would think of floating a bond to cover the expense. Pujols is no where near the talent Howard is. Obviously those who voted for the MVP in '06 didn't think so. Didn't A. Pujols come in 2nd that year?
To make up for that 3 mil-I think they didn't resign Rowand instead inserted lil Shane Victorino cut barajas and inserted a career minor leaguer in Coste. Savings well over 3 mil. Hamel's is being pd 600kish. Moyer 4.5 milish Kendrick 450kish. Feliz 2.5 mil. Brumlett 800k.

Not angry, I just hate when money is such an issue with these athletes. My friend and I have always had this argument about money and sports. Well its over for THIS year, so lets play some freaking baseball.

What annoys me the most about the whole Ryan Howard/Phillies saga is how the team keeps trying to compare him to Albert Pujols in 2004. Guess what its 2008, not 2004, and Baseball revenues are way up. This team got lucky signing Jimmy Rollins for what appears now to be well under his value. Chase Utley is poised to possibly be the best player in the National league and they were lucky to get him to sign a long term deal at the numbers they agreed too. There luck has run out with Ryan Howard. Be prepared to pay Ryan Howard at least 20 million a year Phillies if you want his name on a long term contract. I am not the type of person that always sides with the player but I am a firm believer in fair market value when you have proven you are a great player.

anyone who is supporting the phils standpoint is ridiculous. while i realize the phils operate with a budget (which i think is apalling), this is going to hurt them in the long run. this basically signals that the market is willing to pay howard more than the phils & howard will use that against them in future LT negotiations.

locking howard in this year for ~$100m for 7 years now will be cheaper than the contract he will get (from us or someone else).

lastly, the reason the phils haven't been serious contenders recently is becuase they cant think outside the box - what other team is gifted with a nucleus of utz/roll/howard? pay howard and get it over with. the guy is going to bring you $3m in rev (merch, tik sales) this year alone.

glad for howard, love to see the phils ownership knocked down a bit.

clinton nj, agreed. I just think it's funny when this whole time all I read on this site was MLBPA rules. Now that Howard got a payday many are saying he shouldn't have.
Well what happened to the rules, the mlnpa contract that was negotiated on behalf of the players. It was fine when the rich guys won now it seems like some feel Ryan should have just accepted the 7 million and not fought for what was determined to be his fair value.

Really, I actually have to get work done.
Good day all.

cdoc - if Howard would sign for 7/$100m, I think the phils would do it, but its rumored he wants $20m/per.

And if you think its appalling that they work within a budget, lets see how appalling it is when they stop doing so, and the $25 ticket becomes $50 and $10 parking becomes $20.

cdoc - if Howard would sign for 7/$100m, I think the phils would do it, but its rumored he wants $20m/per.

And if you think its appalling that they work within a budget, lets see how appalling it is when they stop doing so, and the $25 ticket becomes $50 and $10 parking becomes $20.

Truth you are seriously crazy if you think Pujols is no where near the talent of Howard! Just look at the numbers! The difference in strikeouts alone makes Pujols better, not to mention the higher average, better speed, better glove, and he's been doing CONSISTENLY it for SEVEN years.

I can't believe that I'm saying this but TRUTH is actually making some good points (until he started bashing Pujols)and ones that don't implicate racism. Pujols is a better all around player then Ryan Howard, Howard may hit a few more HRs, but Pujols is a better fielder, has a career .332 batting average. Even in his worse statistical season his season looked like this: AVG .327 | HR 32 | RBI 103 | OBP .429 | SLG .568 and he's NEVER struck out more than 93 times in a season. Honestly if I'm starting a NL team and was looking for a cleanup hitter that is a 1B, I'd go Pujols before Howard (it hurts to say that being a Phillies fan though)

long term this doesnt bode well for the phillies,for several reasons...10 million is now the starting point for any contract extension,howard can use that 10 million as a starting point in his next three arbitration hearings,if he isnt signed long term...and most frightening...what if his numbers continue to improve..

Continuing on CG's points...Pujols also bats out of the third spot in the lineup. I'm not sure how many RBI's that would take away from him, but i would imagine it's a fact worth mentioning.

Also, Pujols and Howard are pretty much the same age. Giving a 25 year old (Pujols in 2004) a 7 year contract makes alot more sense to me that giving one to a 28 year old (Howard now). I remember thinking that signing Pat Burrel to his long term deal seemed like a no-brainer. We all know how that turned out. I'm not saying that Howard's career will end up even remotely similar to Burrell's, but I can't blame the phillies for being alittle aprehensive about giving the guy a long term, $20 mill deal after he was injured and had his worst season in the majors (eventhough it was still a solid season).

add half of thomes salary and how much does howard cost the phils this year?.....15,16 million?

So after all this talk about making Howard unhappy he ends up getting what he wants (which, contrary to what many people are saying, is probably more than he deserves -- people here are missing how baseball economics work. Players get paid less early in their career when the teams are in control, but almost always make it up by being grossly overpaid later in their career when they hit free agency. Even mediocre players). So big deal. Can we move on to actual baseball now? I sure hope Mr. Howard has a strong season. He'd kinda look bad if after demanding and getting a record contract for someone with his service time he went out and underperformed like he did last April and May. And you know how understanding Philly fans are when someone demands a lot of money then underperforms.

Keith Law of ESPN was asked if the ruling would affect the chances of the Phils signing Howard longterm and he said:

"I don't see the ruling affecting the decision on a long-term deal. I've always felt that Howard's most productive years would be covered by the six years of control, and when he's a free agent, the Phils should let him walk. So if they want to go 3/$45 or something in that range just to lock the guy up and get some cost certainty, fine. But I don't want to commit to Ryan Howard's age-34 season right now; it's not a body type or skill set that ages well."

Why is everyone panicking about Howard becoming a Met or a Yankee, etc.? As stated many times over, it'll be after the 2011 (!) season, FOUR FULL SEASONS FROM NOW, that Ryan becomes a free agent. If, for whatever reason, the Phillies and Howard cannot come to terms for a multi-year deal by then, well, so be it. I love Ryan Howard. I love the Phillies. I love the Ryan Howard as a Phillie.

As a fan, do I want Howard to remain a Phillie post-2011 and until his retirement?

Of course.

As a fan, do I absolutely need Howard to be a Phillie after 2011?

No.

This team, like any MLB team, needs to secure good pitching, from starters to middle relievers to closers. Slugging first basemen are much easier to come by. This will still be true in 2011, when these message boards are transmitted via brain waves.

And for the record, yes, I am glad Howard won the arbitration.

No one deserves 10 million dollars, especially athletes. It's ridiculous people care so much. Someone isn't happy with 7 million and wants 10 million. 7 million is enough for sveral lifetimes. Relax people---worry about the war and how much that costs.

Claire, whats for dinner?

It's a good thing that Ryan Howard got the $10 million he both deserves and has earned. Since baseball is the only sport without a salary cap there is more than plenty of money to go around for all. He is an awesome slugger wha has put up amazing numbers and in addition has packed a lot of butts into seats at Citizens Bank Ballpark.

Just imagine how much more money he'll be making in the future if he continues to hit in the range of 50 homers a year. He could easily be making $20 million per year.

So congratulations to Ryan and to all of his supporters. With over 4600 votes cast, Phillies fans approve of his contract 80% to 14%.

Play ball!

Ryan Howard should have asked for $12 million, and I bet he would have gotten it. THe Phils have not been great to either Howard or Utley. Both should have been in the Majors sooner. Utley will be 30 next year and Howard 29. Both were 26-year old rookies who deserved to be in the majors sooner. They deserve to get what they can, because the Phils are -- like it or not -- one of the very worst teams in baseball to be associated with as a player. THey do not customarily win and they do not spend -- only on rare occasions. In the past their ability to evaluate talent has been horrible. Maybe we have turned the corner. I hope so, but doubt it because history is the best judge of future behavior.

Utley agreed to a 7-year contract. Rollins agreed to a 5-year contract. The Phillies had the 7th highest payroll in baseball last year and won the NL East. If it so bad in Philadelphia, why didn't Utley and Rollins play out their arbitration and become Free Agents and leave town?

Get a clue and get the facts straight. Aaron Rowand is the highest paid non-Pitcher on the Giants. Are the Giants cheap?

Why don't we give the team to Ryan Howard? Just make him the owner, and he can pay the players $10m a piece.

This "the phillies are cheap" non-sense is ridiculous. Go root for the Yankees, that's a easy team to root for.

Did Case mention that the Phillies are CHEAP BASTARDS who like to LOWBALL players? They have wasted more money by being cheap than any other team in the majors. They can't get out of their own CHEAP ways.

Ryan Howard has earned what he will make and additionally, he will be making much, much more in the future. So if you're upset about him making $10 in 2008, how much more upset will you be when he makes $14 million in 2009, $17 million, in 2010, and $21 million in 2011?

Sorry for you 14%'ers out there who can't get over Howard winning his arbitration over those LOWBALL CHEAP BASTARDS.

It`s great that Howard made his money.However,I`m looking at this from a different angle than any of the other posters.Depending on what kind of year he has and where the Phillies end up in the N.L. east I would do one of two things.If they get to the World Series try and sign Howard long term.If they don`t make the post season, trade him for a stud number one pitcher.If they don`t make the post season it will be because their pitching failed them and Howard would bring the pitching they need.I coached baseball for many years and the old adage is true,"Good pitching beats good hitting",any day of the week.

And the good news is ....

Even with Howard winning arbitration, the Phillies starting payroll for 2008 will be between $94-$96 million depending upon whether Helms is on the opening day roster.

That compares with previous opening day salaries of:

2007: $ 89,428,213
2006: $ 88,273,333
2005: $ 95,522,000
2004: $ 93,219,167

In 2007, the Phillies had record revenue in excess of $200. So look, we're all still in great shape.

Congratulations Ryan! Good Luck, Phils!

Case, for every Rollins and Utley there is a Schilling and a Rolen.
You forget Rollins had to beg for his money, look how much better he has played since he has had the piece of mind. The Phillies got over royally on him. Utley as well. Utley will be so grossly underpaid by the time his 5th year rolls around it will not be funny.
Don't be mad a Howard for taking inflation into consideration. Think for an 100k last year Howard may have been a better mindset to start the season and it wouldn't have taken a Mets collapse for the Phillies to back in. YOU the Philaelphia Phillies fan have the analytical ability of an avg 4 yr old.

Tavian and Nick make great points.

Nick, the Phillies ate $22m in the Thome trade. How is that cheap? I don't care how much $$ Howard earns, pay him $20m. I get tired of hearing the organization is "cheap."

Sometimes they do dumb things (Freddy Garcia), but they are not cheap. They jumped the gun and paid Burrell, Abreu, and Lieberthal more than they had to. It turned out to bite them is the @#*.

If the Phillies are going to extend Howard, they will have to trade Rollins or Utley to accomplish it. I think Utley and Rollins are more important players because of the positions they play.

Truth, the Phils beat the Mets 8 straight times. It had nothing to do with Ryan's "mindset." That is such crap. If the Phillies are cheap, than Utley and Rollins should have opted for Free Agency and gotten the Hell out of here.

Aaron Rowand got his $60m and his ass will be in last place this season.

Rolen left Philly because he hated the city. After getting his ass benched by LaRussa, he bitched his way out of St. Louis. Rolen is a whining baby who is always miserable.

If Utley is "underpaid" in the 5th year of his deal, that's his fault. He shouldn't have signed the deal. Is Burrell under-paid right now???

The only valid point you make in your rambling replies was "sometimes they do dumb things".

Your right. It is Utley's fault. Howard was man enough to stand up for what he has earned.
We'll see how you guys feel about Utley if he is having a hall of fame career and in year 5 and starts bitching b/c he is getting paid as much as the equivilant of Barrajas.
I guarantee all of YOU will demand the Phillies rip up the CONTRACT and pay him.
Hypocrits

How long have we talked in this town about how cheap the Phillies ownership has been over the past 25 years? Are people seriously angry over the fact that Phillies ownership (i.e. a group of multi millionaires and one billionaire) has to pay an extra $3 million dollars to one of its best players? As for Philly being a blue collar town, yes it is and that's why it shocks me that people are actually siding with management, that's counterintuitive to a blue collar culture. I don't want to hear about baseball players making too much money, he earned the $10 million as dictated by the arbitrators so any person on here that starts talking about overpaid athletes lacks common sense and doesn't understand the economics of baseball or any other professional sport. Should Ryan Howard play for free or should he play for his corresponding market value? Who on here would not try to make more money if given the chance, if you wouldn't then you are a moron.

I'm 31 and have experienced what is probably considered the worst era of Phillies baseball, one trip to the playoffs in a 23 year period (even with a wildcard in place for over ten years) until last year. So for once I have a team I can actually root for that just might have a shot at winning the whole thing a few times if not winning a few division titles or wildcards.

As per increasing the ticket prices, ludicrous, the prices for this year are already set and will not be going up, season tickets have already been printed and distributed. I just cannot understand the backlash over a player of his magnitude earning $10 million per year when others in the game are making over $20 million per year.

Btw, who the heck is Keith Law anyway? I've watched a lot of ESPN and read ESPN.com and I've never heard of the guy, he probably works in the NYC or Boston market and wants the Phillies to botch Howard's long term status so the Yankees or Red Sox can pick him up when he's a free agent.

Oh and Case, the Phillies were ridiculously cheap prior to signing Thome with the new ballpark on the horizon, 2001 payroll of $46 million (starting rotation of Bruce Chen, David Coggin, Omar Daal, Robert Person and Randy Wolf) and 2002 payroll of $55 million (starting rotation of Terry Adams, Brandon Duckworth, Vincente Padilla, Robert Person and Randy Wolf), still don't think they were cheap? They had a joke pitching staff and only ramped up their payroll when they moved into the new park.

Truth - you're ridiculous. This is the way baseball works. Essentialy, you want to throw out the CBA and have every player work on a year to year basis. That's crazy - and it would work against the majority of the players - that's why the union agreed to the CBA. Signing the long term contract wasn't stupid for Utley, because he is guaranteed money - a lot of it. And when Rollins and Utley's contracts are up, if they have played above the value of their contracts, then they will get another big contract, whether is from the Phillies or not, and if not, then they would have been overpaid - its a win-win for them. If Howard decides to go to arb every year, he really risks not getting his big payday (big as in multi-year guaranteed contract). He may still get it if he continues to put the numbers up until 2011, but its a risk nonetheless.