Albert Yee continues his report on the District 10 community forum, at which the final Citizens Agenda was presented. (Yee's own blog is at http://www.dragonballyee.com/blog/) He writes:
The second portion of the District 10 agenda meeting was mostly the city councilmembers talking, specifically Councilman Brian O'Neill, it's his district after all. The other two councilmen, Councilman Jack Kelly and Councilman Bill Green are both currently At-Large officials, but Kelly is from the NE and once was a district councilman as well. They were more than happy to let the home team have their say and added their points accordingly. The initial discussion focused on Planning & Zoning. Forum attendee and NE resident Alan wanted wanted a real citywide plan with significant localized input. He asked how much juice should individual neighborhoods have?
Councilman O'Neill (pictured above) frankly stated that after 7 years of the Street administration, he gave up. He thinks that Mayor Nutter "gets it" in regards to planning and hopes that change will come. He said that there would be an overriding plan, but there would and must be local input. How much, he didn't specify. He added that Philadelphia is the largest city without a city wide street cleaning; it was canned during the Rizzo administration 35 years ago. O'Neill noted that even without street cleaning, the streets were relatively clean considering, but that we do need it. Over on the Inky's Trash Me blog is this post questioning why this city doesn't have street cleaning, "this dysfunctional status quo" Rauch-Mannino wrote. Touching on an earlier comment on a 311 system, O'Neill said that Mayor Daley in Chicago was doing the best job kicking butt. He said that the iron fist with which Daley rules is the driving force.
Councilman Kelly agreed that there wasn't a good planning plan in place for the last 8 years or more and that Councilman O'Neill may be more of an expert on the matter than those on the mayorally (is that even a word?) appointed planning commission. Councilman Green said that the current councilmanic privilege process didn't exist in the 1960s and that district council members shouldn't act as planners. Green said that district council should bring their issues to the commission and not hold up projects themselves unless absolutely necessary. He also said that the way the commission is appointed should be changed: the members should serve staggered terms and nominees should be approved by City Council.
Councilman Green opened the discussion on a 311 system for the city by pointing to a policy paper on the topic on his Web site: The Green Plan for Service Reform [.pdf]. It outlines a plan for a predominantly paperless city government which he estimates will save $200M - $300M per year and would enable more accountability by having processes outlined and electronic checklists which can be analyzed for efficiency. He pointed to CIOs of multi-national corporations who increase efficiency in their companies between 2% - 4% each year saving money and speeding things up. Satullo asked about initial costs of implementation and training; Green stated it would cost between $5M - $10M to start up, but the money would quickly be made up.
Alan brought up what he called the "big elephant in the room" - real estate reassessment and the Board of Revision of Taxes. Councilman Jack Kelly (pictured above) stepped up first. He emphatically said that council must do all it can to protect the elderly and others on fixed incomes. He suggested a cap on the amount taxed. Currently, homes are not taxed at the full value of their house. You may have heard of State Senator Vince Fumo's house and how it's on the selling block for $6M, but is only taxed at $250k, 1/24th or 4% the value. According to Councilman O'Neill, the average across the city for valuation is about 30% of the full value of one's home meaning that if you own a $200k home, you're most likely only paying taxes as if you had a $60k home. The goal is to get to 70%, but how to get there and over how long a period of time? And what about those who cannot afford a 200% increase? O'Neill added that without action from the state legislature, the city would never get to a full 100% evaluation of real estate and the state legislature won't be proactive about it. He accused them of wanting to wait until the last minute of a budget crisis so they could come in and look like heroes.
Councilman Green swung the conversation to Brett Mandel's mission and pending lawsuit. Green thinks that Mandel will win his lawsuit as the city is legally bound to a full valuation of homes. The time period for council to act on the issue and protect those vulnerable will expire before the lawsuit is won. You can read up on Mandel's take on citywide reassessment. Councilman O'Neill disagreed that the lawsuit was a slam dunk. Previously, as candidate Nutter, now Mayor Nutter said that the current real estate structure was antiquated. His plan was for City Council to figure out how much money they needed from real estate taxes for the budget and then tax to meet that rate that year, that way a full 100% evaluation isn't necessarily needed.
Councilman O'Neill suggested getting everyone at a 50% evaluation threshold. The jump from 30% to 50% isn't too bad and people understand the notion of "a half" very easily. Then, depending on what the actual valuation of one's home is needed, double the number for 100% or halve it for another round number. But no matter what council comes up with, he said that their hands are tied as it's the state legislature which has the final say and the BRT surely won't be proactive either.
Warren (center in blue), said he had no faith in any change as long as the BRT stays as it is. He wants an independent reassessment for the entire city. One of the councilmembers noted that the city has no idea as to the bigger picture number of the value of all the real estate in the city. With an independent reassessment, a baseline number could be established and the BRT would be forced to act one way or another. Councilman O'Neill agreed and said that reassessments in each council district should be performed and published for all to see. Satullo asked if that wasn't precisely the job of the City Controller? The council members lamented that nobody listens to what the Controller says or does.
Councilman O'Neill had last licks as the home team and closed by noting how and why counties were initially created [NYC and Philadelphia are among the largest city-county entities]. They were to provide state services on a local level more effectively, not to simply act as funnels for tax monies to be sent back to the state. He noted the unequal relationship Philadelphia has with the state as so much tax money goes back to the state, an unbalanced number compared to other counties with lighter burdens. He said that the state must recognize the unique impact counties like Philadelphia and Allegheny have and how they are different from suburban and rural counties and to let those unique counties act more freely with their constituency. Allowing a city-county like Philadelphia to keep more of its tax money could allow more effective control of programs which are currently dependent on state funding. Allowing a city-county like Philadelphia have stricter laws than what comes out of Harrisburg would allow Philadelphia County to meet the unique needs of it's urban environment. I think this cry for individual attention rang loudly in the independent NE. But on the other hand, I did hear many people ask for the NE to be more of a part of the rest of the city. How that can be done is a mystery to me.
Aside from the pure geographical difference from the rest of the city, there are other huge concerns I have. The issue of mass transit is high up there. There is no easy way to get to and from the NE from Center City. I had to take a PhillyCarShare car for my half hour drive to the NE. People from the NE may not feel as comfortable in the pedestrian-centric Center City area and pedestrians are left with no easy way to get to the NE. And then there's the issue of race. The 100% white makeup of the Tuesday night group was a stark example of the difference to the vast majority of the rest of the city which is predominantly brown. But as the once staid NE is disturbed by more and more development, the problems become more similar. Can the divide be closed? I don't think it can without an improvement in mass transit options without a multitude of transfers. But even then, can it be done? I have hope that it can, but both sides are going to have to work hard at it. The willingness of this thoughtful and knowledgeable group to come together and discuss this citywide agenda is a step in the right direction.
Please check out the Great Expectations blog and their events page to see where you can learn about this ongoing civic engagement project. I'll be reporting from two more of these councilmanic district events.
Comments (20)
This is a better treatment in many respects, forgive me, than what few accounts of these meetings makes it into the paper. Why is this?
Rauch-Mannino didn't write the post cited, however. It was an anonymous post cited by Rauch-Mannino because it resonated.
This is the first I've heard of the city having to "have so much tax money go back to the state." This doesn't make too much sense -- everyone knows that the city costs the state too much, more than the city pays for.
If this is a reason that property taxes are not collected at real values, than it is criminal -- creating bad schools, violent streets, overcrowded prisons, and making Democrats in Philly the bane of the party.
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 3:23 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 15:23
If O'Neill thinks the streets are clean, and he is satisfied, I'm satisfied that I will never vote for him again, and will gave cash to his opponent.
"O'Neill noted that even without street cleaning, the streets were relatively clean considering, but that we do need it." Sorry O'Neill, not even close to good enough.
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 3:27 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 15:27
Daley doesn't succeed because he uses "an iron fist," but because he has high standards, goals, and tasks good people with making them happen. Daley's thrown out any system that is closed, unaccountable, or ever had a problem with waste, fraud, abuse. which to specify for Philly pols, include nepotism, conflict of interest hiring or assignments, or any system where there is no oversight or control involving public funds.
This is no "iron fist."
This just means that Fumo would have to pay the same taxes as everyone else, if he lived in Chicago, that the city can't hire friends and relatives because the hiring system is open and genuinely competitive, not rigged for "city residents" or pals of.
You have a city controller who is an auditor, not a diplomatic ad hoc envoy to Darfur. In Chicago, you have a city that is run at least as well as the best of Chicago business, and business is not a dirty word meaning pay to play.
Green is doing the things that business does. He's upgrading systems, saving money, and delivering.
The lifers in politics suffer in comparison -- they've never worked in industry, so they have no idea what business has to do within limits of the rule of law and firm budgets.
Chicago has a wealth of business schools and top business and legal minds. Oh, wait, so do we. Where is the misalignment between the Chicago Dems and the Philly Dems?
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 3:35 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 15:35
Philly is a strong mayor city, so the "iron fist" comment doesn't pan out. Evidence based budgeting, accountability and oversight are the reason Chicago is better. This all came out of the scandals of years past -- Chicago is the leader in ethics and campaign finance reform in many ways. It didn't weaken the Dems in Chicago, it made them strong. Witness the source of the Obama push -- Illinois.
Where did that goo-goo faith came from a long slog to make Chicago a world class, responsive, responsible city.
Can Philly learn from it? Can the Philly Dems look honestly at Chicago Dems, and at themselves?
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 3:40 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 15:40
That good government faith came from a long investment, a long slog to make Chicago politics cleaner, more open, more transparent, more responsive, and in so doing, made Chicago more business friendly, more able to partner with the state, and more able to tackle big projects like its own world class waterfront.
Chicago long ago outstripped Philly. Can Philly examine those lessons and realize that clean government is the only good government? Clean government means you don't willfully task the BRT with violating state law to retain a voter status quo.
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 3:44 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 15:44
Seniors have a property tax cap, Mr. Kelly. You may be familiar with it, since you voted on it.
So do the disabled. What is the hold up? Every owner gets a form to fill out when they are eligible for this freeze or cap.
An across the board cap is not going to fund schools and police. I'd rather have a floating cap such as is currently in place -- the senior applies when eligible to freeze taxes at the level of the year of application.
Casino revenue will be available later for further property tax reform.
But the BRT can't wait, and Council can't keep dragging its feet, unless it wants to cause these FMV changes to kick in before a millage change.
That would cause a mass hysteria that would result in a throw the bums out movement that would make the pay raise incident look like the crochet club.
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 3:48 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 15:48
Does council care about seniors or does it care that its got buds who give them money who really really like being undervalued on taxes?
Come on folks. How much ganja are you smoking in city hall?
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 3:51 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 15:51
And with Fumo in charge of what law enforcement is alleging is a nonprofit slush fund (that cleans streets, interestingly, as a kind of government-within-a-government), you're going to tell me its the poor, poor senior victims of property tax reassessment that are hurting, not that all important "consideration" come election time from Johnny Doc or Fumo?
The ghost of Ron White seems like it haunts the Philly Dems. Kickbacks are the order of business, and as Fumo outlined in his newsletter, anyone who doesn't get that is forfeiting a source of campaign finance, making us "naive."
When this marriage to the kickback kulture ends, we'll have a party that can finally use the money for what it was intended, elect competent pols based on experience and education, and set, and reach, goals that will get them elected.
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 4:02 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 16:02
These old school democrats in the city don't want FMV because it uses a computer system algorithm to set values, making it much harder to do a Fumo-assessment of "we've lost that file."
There's no file to lose -- it's all electronic, and to delete it would require top authorization requiring deleting duplicate copies.
This kind of checks and balances is really the end of an era for Philly that dates from the 19th Century. FMV is very straightforward -- by its very definition, it's hard to tamper with.
No more relative working in the BRT, no more friend who makes a phone call to a friend, the old ways are dying out, and the BRT Board (of elected judges) can't face it. It means the old Dem kings feel powerless, helpless, unable to deliver a "consideration" or a "special exception" on a "case by case basis." All that crap Philly does is out. And the state says you have to do it that way.
Why does Brett Mandel have to sue the city to force it to follow the law? That's just a sign that all of City Council can't do the job (except Bill Green). Bill Green we should keep. He's smart and damned cute.
We have to skip a century to get to the 21st, it seems. Why do we have to drag the old timers kicking and screaming into the world the rest of us live in?
Come on fat cash hounds, chop chop.
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 4:10 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 16:10
Are these guys serious? They can just run the FMV software from their own offices, and get this information. Values are not arbitrarily assigned. They are based on comp values.
Comparative values are sales prices in the area, and they average themselves out because lots are sold along with run down houses along side the high end finished product.
The average market value in a zip code is a good rough approximation of what FMV will do. DUH.
So, Homers-elect, you may want to go ahead look a this software yourselves. It's easy to use, and the BRT is already using it.
Unless you have a city controller that hires a Deloitte or a round-robin of actual auditors, you'll have no actual auditing coming out of the city controller's office. They have no experience, education, or ability to produce such work.
The office itself is a junket. You'd get more out of Wharton interns brought in for a class project.
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 4:18 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 16:18
I'll tell you exactly why Council is dragging its feet on FMV -- it comes from an attitude summed up perfectly by former 30th Ward Leader Terri Gillen, now a major domo for the new mayor.
When asked how the Naval Home would impact property values in the area, and how new people moving in would impact the reliable old Democratic vote coming out of the 30th Ward, Terri Gillen said, "that's something I think about a lot."
She's spending time thinking about how to counteract the effect of an influx of new people which she assumes will be conservative because the Naval Home has a certain price level.
Instead, they're pretty liberal for all their success over there in the "Asylum." So it's really stupid how much time and energy fighting change is wasted by the top minds of the local Philly Democratic party.
Fact: more property taxes means more ability to deliver services to voters. Schools, safety, clean streets. Get this right, and you're golden.
Fact: Philly is not going to be the low income housing destination of PA. The federal money isn't there, and neither Obama nor Hillary have any interest in saddling themselves with the affordable housing financing albatross of years past and its horror show abuses.
Fact: Chicago and NYC gave up trying to be the donut hole in the middle of the booming surrounding economy. Cities need middle and upper middle income residents who pay for schools, safety, and clean streets.
Fact: If you want to raise the education of Philadelphians, stop trying to prevent people from leaving for greener pastures by tying them down with cheap rents from nonproperty tax paying entities. People will stay in a city where they perceive that the neighborhood can improve because there is not a permanent federally funded base of troubled, unsupervised low or no legal income residents. There's no reason to tie people here when jobs are more plentiful outside the city borders.
Fact: FMV is just a normalization of values on an objective criteria, which is what the BRT was always supposed to be doing anyway.
Fighting change instead of responding to it intelligently is exactly why we have filthy streets, horrible schools I wouldn't send a dog to, and out of control violence committed by people who have warrants waiting to be served from a logjam of 10,000 outstanding warrants.
Is this the Democratic vision? Rotting, broken stasis? I'm forced to vote for McCain. You guys are the reason why.
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 4:33 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 16:33
Housing is cheap here. Why does city council do nothing but cry about how we need "more affordable housing?"
Come on people. Move to Jersey, Delaware or Chester County, or anywhere else and try to pay such low property taxes. Give it up. We have to pay the same property taxes at LEAST as the rest of PA in does in the middle of one of the region's largest economic drivers.
Why are these people so rooted on making Philly the place were all seniors can live in old rotting fire hazard 100 year old houses?
Clearly, it's not for the sake of the safety or well being of seniors. Plus, what about reverse mortgages? Any senior can use one. It's dumb to try to keep all taxes below market value when options for seniors exist now just fine.
What you'll have is a city that has vibrant new businesses and newcomers from all over who make this place not just the ghost of what it once was, but a San Fran or a Seattle on the east coast.
It's yours if you just have the balls for once. ;)
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 4:38 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 16:38
I'm not voting for Kelly anymore either. It's really clear that I can't just blame the Blackwell alliance for backwardness. The backwardness is universal.
Let's elect some Greens. Anything but these constipated dinosaurs.
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 4:41 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 16:41
The lawsuit by Philadelphia Forward is a slam dunk. OMG. Do people not get that the state law specifies uniformity of assessments?
You can't have one neighbor paying property taxes in 1980 assessments, while another pays in 2007 assessments.
I can't believe how hard it is. Anyone who can't follow the law needs to join Milton in prison. He's going to need some company to discuss how taxes are unconstitutional.
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 4:44 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 16:44
WOW, O'Neill sounds like he needs to join Uncle Fester, tax protester. Of course this lawsuit is a slam dunk. And an embarrassment that you have to sue an elected official to get them to follow the law.
These guys make the GEICO cavemen look like sophisticates.
Posted by ljlong | February 23, 2008 4:46 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 16:46
"Show me da law dat says we got to pay da taxes," Uncle Fester, tax protester.
What kind of party is this?
Posted by Anonymous | February 23, 2008 4:50 PM
Posted on February 23, 2008 16:50
I don't know why you voted for Kelly the last time? Habit? Pay attention this time.
Posted by Mark Chalupa | February 25, 2008 8:44 AM
Posted on February 25, 2008 08:44
Seriously? Full Value isn't a Council issue...pay attention folks. Council doesn't have any power over property values. That's why when you appeal your property value, you appear before the BRT and not Council and why Mandel isn't suing Council but the BRT.
And what happens to all those folks in stable neighborhoods when their property taxes double? You think they're going to just suck it up and happily pay?
Maybe people should start asking questions rather than simply accepting Mandel's opinion as fact.
Posted by Anonymous | March 2, 2008 9:39 AM
Posted on March 2, 2008 09:39
I wonder if anyone knows what the Philadelphia School District does to teachers who complain about violence in their schools, directed towards teachers.
Is the public aware of how disfunctional the School District of Philadelphia is?
The School District of Philadelphia wastes your tax-dollars. It is not accountable to anyone. It is corrupt and dishonest.
If teachers complain about violence, they are placed in basements, to never be heard from again.
The School District of Philadelphia should get its playbook from the people down at Gitmo, who also are adept at torture.
Posted by Down in the Basement | March 6, 2008 9:41 PM
Posted on March 6, 2008 21:41
I wonder if anyone knows what the Philadelphia School District does to teachers who complain about violence in their schools, directed towards teachers.
Is the public aware of how disfunctional the School District of Philadelphia is?
The School District of Philadelphia wastes your tax-dollars. It is not accountable to anyone. It is corrupt and dishonest.
If teachers complain about violence, they are placed in basements, to never be heard from again.
The School District of Philadelphia should get its playbook from the people down at Gitmo, who also are adept at torture.
Posted by Down in the Basement | March 6, 2008 9:42 PM
Posted on March 6, 2008 21:42